Trevor H

Hi Mark, Have been following this with a lot of interest, I started a WHL layout (1970) http://leeholder41.fotopic.net/ a while back, but sadly due to storage problems have not been able to progress any further with it over the last couple of years. Keep up the good work, it certainly has the feel of the West Highland and hopefully it'll inspire me to get something done myself. ps. love the work you've put into the buildings and especially the bridge and station building. Trevor

The Clayton bogie wheelbase is 8'6" which would suit class 15, 16, 17, 20, 21/29, 22, 23, 24, 25, half a co-bo, or a dmu, class 73's were 8'9" so only 1mm out. Meanwhile the bogie centres on the Clayton are 28'0 which would only suit class 17, 24 and 25, so could remoter a Hornby/Silverfox cl24/25. Otherwise the class 21/29 is 28'6" and i think this could be a popular choice. I'll probably go this route, i had put some Bachmann cl 24/25's aside for this but will now use the spare Heljan chassis's instead. The class 71/74 has 27'0" bogie centres but would require 10'6" bogies like those fitted to Hymek. Hope this helps.

Although not allocated to 86B, I believe the Canton ones were sub-shedded at EJ and the drivers were fully trained on them. Would always seem to be two or three on shed at weekend whilst STJ saw them regularly aswell.

Cheers David, I have a set of Gibson's doing nothing, will dig them out and give them a try. Trevor.

Hadn't actually checked my Heljan ones myself, its was just experience from previous Clayton's done. Anyhow just measured them for you and myself and they are 13mm. Pushing manufacturers wheels out seems to suit some people but not others, i think it comes down to the tolerances on the layout, i know i have done it before and loco will happilly run through some points but not others, whilst you try it on someone elses layout and it dont want to know.

Remember the Clayton wheels are 3' 3" which are 13mm, does anybody know anyone who does 13mm disc wheels, I've used some 12mm (not sure who's) which were 12.5mm in my previous models and look perfectly ok. May try Ultrascales which are 13mm when i do my Heljan models, but they are a lot more expensive.

4mm Bits from Old RMweb Bachmann Class 24 by d7093 original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:48 pm Over the past couple of weeks i've been working on some class 24s, hopefully for my layout Morfa Mawr. Basically these are something i started work on quite a few years ago for other projects but never got completed, so i had acouple of Hornby shells and two Silver Fox resin bodies, one which i picked up recently from a good friend Villier Street. The plan is to plant them onto Bachmann chassis's for their superb running qualities. Work is still progressing on these because even though the proportions of the body is quite near too what i'm after, the more i did on them the more i was getting disconcerted with them. I kept going back to the Bachmann body thinking something could be done with it, so decided to graft a Hornby cl 25 cab on, but i still didn't feel happy with the outcome. So the past few days i been playing about with another Bachmann body. First of all i needed to fit a couple of panels onto the roof but realised they were way to short, on closer inspection i realised the Bachmann roof panel was too narrow and the water filler hatches too close together. So with a bit of work i turned this: Into this: Excellent i thought a start had been made, but the critical part to my eye is the face of the loco which looks totally wrong. This is certainly not a critisim at Bachmann and hopefully at sometime they will do some more work, on both the class 24 & 25 locos and refine what people consider a well needed model. Anyhow what i needed was how can i make this: Look more like this: Basically work involved reprofiling the window to a more acceptable shape and although they may not be dimensionally accurate they are more pleasing to my eye, other work involved redoing the roof profile which i may still do some more work on since seeing what it looks like in a photo, raising the top of the connecting doors as these are too low and probably still are, replacing the cantrail so it had more curvature and replacing the front handrail with 0.4mm brass wire which i have also raised up about 1mm. I'm still out with the jury on this and it certainly is not the definate answer, but i feel it's better than what i had before and at the end of the day it worked out a lot less work than i thought it would be, Infact it was simpler than the work involved in redoing the cab on the skirted class 37s! The Hornby and Silver Fox bodies will get completed for Morfa Mawr, but i may well take the Bachy route again as i need quite a few for my scottish stable in the future. Cheers __________________________________________ Comment posted by Pennine MC on Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:22 pm some class 24s, hopefully for my layout Morfa Mawr. Didnt take long after getting the 'right' answer did it Basically work involved reprofiling the window to a more acceptable shape and although they may not be dimensionally accurate they are more pleasing to my eye, Now that's interesting - shows that proportions are more important than precise dimensions, I think... It'll be interesting to see these in paint in due course __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:35 pm Pennine MC wrote: some class 24s, hopefully for my layout Morfa Mawr. Didnt take long after getting the 'right' answer did it Basically work involved reprofiling the window to a more acceptable shape and although they may not be dimensionally accurate they are more pleasing to my eye, Now that's interesting - shows that proportions are more important than precise dimensions, I think... It'll be interesting to see these in paint in due course Well you can't beat a couple of Bo-Bo's running alongside B-B's and Co-Co's can you The painting of the Bachy model will show the proportions a lot easier, hopefully for the better will keep you posted. Cheers __________________________________________ Comment posted by Pete Piszczek on Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:53 pm d7093 wrote: Excellent i thought a start had been made, but the critical part to my eye is the face of the loco which looks totally wrong. This is certainly not a critisim at Bachmann and hopefully at sometime they will do some more work, on both the class 24 & 25 locos and refine what people consider a well needed model. You are certainly kinder than I when it comes to Bachmann! Nice photoshop on the prototype photo of the Class 24 face. Sometimes it takes fooling around with prototype photos like you've done to convince yourself, and others, that things are amiss. The work you've done thus far in the Class 24 brow is impressive. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Pennine MC on Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:29 pm You are certainly kinder than I when it comes to Bachmann! And in turn Pete, there are those less kind than yourself __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:55 pm Pete Piszczek wrote: d7093 wrote: Excellent i thought a start had been made, but the critical part to my eye is the face of the loco which looks totally wrong. This is certainly not a critisim at Bachmann and hopefully at sometime they will do some more work, on both the class 24 & 25 locos and refine what people consider a well needed model. You are certainly kinder than I when it comes to Bachmann! Nice photoshop on the prototype photo of the Class 24 face. Sometimes it takes fooling around with prototype photos like you've done to convince yourself, and others, that things are amiss. The work you've done thus far in the Class 24 brow is impressive. Thanks Pete, I find it is better nowadays to try and be constructive more than destructive with my words when putting things across, well when in public anyway The photoshop was just something i was playing about with for my own benefit, but when i put the two prototypes shots together the differences really came across to me, a lot more than even i had even realised, so i thought it only fair that i should share it Pennine MC wrote: You are certainly kinder than I when it comes to Bachmann! And in turn Pete, there are those less kind than yourself No wiser words said __________________________________________ Comment posted by onslaught832 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:11 pm Very neat work on the 24 body Trevor , sorry to ask a silly question but is the rain-strip on the cab front just Mek-Pak' ed on Cheers Phill __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:43 pm Hi Phill, Yes the rainstrip is just 10thou plasticard fixed with Mek. I found that because it was so flimsy that it wouldn't follow the smooth curvature i wanted whilst applying the Mek, so i stuck a thin strip of masking tape along where i wanted it just above, this made it a lot easier to butt the plasic strip up against the masking tape when gluing. Cheers Trevor. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Phil on Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:16 am Hi Trevor This has instantly become one of the most absorbing threads on RMweb as I have a pile of Sulzer type 2s to "sort out" in my round tuit box. I guess that you need to remove the curved rainstrip from the roof dome first, as that is what is instrumental in creating Bachmann's illusion. As others have commented, it'll be good to see some paint em, as that'll be the proof of your convictions. Looking really good and I'll be calling by my LHS later for some more microstrip. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:15 am Hi Phill, Hopefully if the idea works the only repainting needed will be the yellow fronts and a bit of patch painting around the roof although this will be covered in grime __________________________________________ Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:49 am As for the Class 24, I'd say the Bachy nose doors are a tad too narrow, as well as low- they just don't fill the space under the centre window properly at all. Unfortunately, rectifying them width-wise looks like an incredibly hard job- probably easier to cut them out and replace entirely with new panels... __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:08 pm F-UnitMad wrote: As for the Class 24, I'd say the Bachy nose doors are a tad too narrow, as well as low- they just don't fill the space under the centre window properly at all. Unfortunately, rectifying them width-wise looks like an incredibly hard job- probably easier to cut them out and replace entirely with new panels... Quite agree about the nose doors and if i was doing one with the doors welded up i probably would of took the option of cutting it all out, but sadly i need the doors and i'm not up for trying to replicate them , also measuring the front of the cab it is 0.6mm wider than the Hornby model which doesn't help for comparison's, but it is starting to grow on me. I had hoped to update with some pics of progress but due to work and other commitments nothing got done at all last week , I have managed to make some valances out of plasticard as the prototype still had them fitted along it's length except directly under the tanks, as did most the LMR ones until late 1972. Which is a shame as i was hoping to be able to use the same chassis's under my ScR ones but most of them seem to of lost their valances a lot earlier, and i've already nabbed several chassis's for my class 29's Cheers Trevor __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:06 pm Further update to the class 24, i've now painted the yellow front ends so it now gives an idea of what it will look like once weathered and numbered. Other work carried out since my last report was to remove some of the plastic around the tanks and fitting the gauges to the other side as on this particular prototype, also to fit some of the valances back on as many of the Stoke division locos seemed to retain at this time. I also fitted some blanking plates on the bodyside footsteps but these will need to be redone as i seem to of got them a bit wonky. __________________________________________ Comment posted by onslaught832 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:31 pm Looking more 24 like already nice work Trevor Phill __________________________________________ Comment posted by Pete Piszczek on Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:47 am onslaught832 wrote: Looking more 24 like already nice work Trevor Phill Yes excellent work! That must have been a bear to carve... __________________________________________ Comment posted by mines a pint on Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:08 am My ears pricked up once you got to the 24's - not that I dont like hydraulics, just dont think I'll be getting round to modelling any soon? Will listen with interest as I still wish to create some 'far north' 24's, I was hanging out for the kits/castings still seems like the windows would be wrong, I like 'neils' 24s based on the old Hornby shell , I have aqcuire a couple of Hornby bodies and will be loking to mount hte Hornby cabs onto the Bachmann loco body/chasssis __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:13 pm onslaught832 wrote: Looking more 24 like already nice work Trevor Phill Cheers Phill, Hopefully when its numbered and has recieved some weathering it'll tone it down, it is looking rather garish at the moment. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:15 pm Pete Piszczek wrote: onslaught832 wrote: Looking more 24 like already nice work Trevor Phill Yes excellent work! That must have been a bear to carve... Cheers Pete, The work wasn't too bad really, main jobs were to angle the tops of windows to give a better curvature, reprofile the skinhead roof slightly with some Milliput and replace the cantrail. The work involved was probably less than converting the Hornby model and although i admit the proportions are probably not exact, it does look more like a class 24 in my eyes anyway. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:17 pm mines a pint wrote: My ears pricked up once you got to the 24's - not that I dont like hydraulics, just dont think I'll be getting round to modelling any soon? Will listen with interest as I still wish to create some 'far north' 24's, I was hanging out for the kits/castings still seems like the windows would be wrong, I like 'neils' 24s based on the old Hornby shell , I have aqcuire a couple of Hornby bodies and will be loking to mount hte Hornby cabs onto the Bachmann loco body/chasssis Cheers MaP, I know what you mean about the class 24's, i need about five for my ScR stock and now i've got this bug for the Cambrian i suddenly need another three or four Crewe ones. I had always hoped Bachmann would of improved on the original, while i also hoped that Brassmaster's or Silver Fox could of done replacements cabs, which i think at the right price would of sold by the bucket load along with one's for the class 25 variants. Before i started on this model i actually returned to two Hornby and two Silver Fox models which had been started many years ago and while working on them i kept thinking their must be a better alternative, so i went the route of sticking the Hornby cabs on the Bach body but their was still the need to fit flush cab doors and alter the cab roof along with a few other mods. Hence the reason this project was born as i always felt something could be done with it. I'm still unsure if it is any better but it does seem an easier route, although i still have some Hornby versions to finish off and Neils 24's do look good. I can see me ending up with one version for my ScR and the other for my LMR stock. Trouble is with all this experimenting, i am running out of class 24 parts. __________________________________________

4mm Bits from Old RMweb Judith Edge Class 17 Clayton by d7093 original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:04 pm After Mr Rushby putting me in the direction of these been used on the York - Aber mail trains and more seriously the soon to be released version from Heljan, i decided Sunday evening it was about time i should dig my kit out of the back of the modelling cupboard and make a start. As ever the etches are up to the usual excellent standard expected from Mike's kits and along with the thorough instructions look as though it'll be another enjoyable kit to build. Will post some pictures later of this evenings progress Cheers __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:12 pm Work to date consisted of building the basis of the footplate and the four walls of the cab. I've found the step by step instructions very easy to follow while all the etched parts are individualy numbered and the kit builds in numerical order as per the etches which helps you not to miss out anything or fit the wrong item. The body is fitted to the footplate with 12x 16BA screws and nuts which are soldered to the base of the body, i found this a bit fiddly due to the small size of the screws compared to my accustomed O gauge fingers, but eventually got them all fitted after retrieving most of them out the carpet. All in all so far so good and hopefully another update soon. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:15 am A bit more work was done last night on the Clayton, basically this consisted of fitting the cab doors, handbrake wheel and post, soldering the bonnet sides to the body baseplate and fitting the nose fronts. The headcode panel comes as a solid etch which is half etched, i decided i wanted to open the the panel so i fitted it as per the instructions and then opened it up by drilling a few holes then fileing it out, this way the rim would not get distorted or damaged. The corners between the nose fronts and bonnet sides will need to be rounded off, this will be done with a few strokes of a file to each corner. While the next job will be the fitting of the bonnet tops which i think could be one of the more tricky parts of the construction, will update soon on how i get on. Cheers. __________________________________________ Comment posted by mozzer models on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:29 am nice work i have there ES1 on my work bench at the moment the foot plate has 12 parts to make it but this is solid and will not twist __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:02 am mozzer models wrote: nice work i have there ES1 on my work bench at the moment the foot plate has 12 parts to make it but this is solid and will not twist Thanks Moz, i just love the way all the bits just fit together without the hassle of making them fit. Look forward to seeing your ES1, always had a fascination for the NE electric stuff but sadly i doubt i'll ever model it. Hope to get one of the new NBL shunters this weekend a model i've always been after. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:14 pm As i thought the fitting of the bonnet tops was'nt going to be straightforward and i'd probably would have prefered the bonnet tops and sides to of being made from one unit to fold up. But with a bit of fettling and the fitting of the handrails along the join and it all seems to of come together Anyhow the wifes watching BB so think i'll get back to putting another couple of hours in __________________________________________ Comment posted by Klingon on Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:51 pm All looking good there. I would try brass kits but I'm not sure my soldering skills are up to it. Wires to circuits and tracks, no problem! Brass? Tried once, couldn't get the hang of it! Maybe I'll give it a go someday as I want to do a Rolls Royce Sentinel 0-4-0 diesel mechanical chain drive version as per prototype at Rushden Historical Transport Society. But that will probably be about the same time as I continue with the scratchbuilt station that I haven't touched for 4 years Maybe I should do some more to it. Looking forward to seeing more! __________________________________________ Comment posted by Welly on Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:45 am Trevor - thanks for putting up pictures of your building the Clayton kit! I have recently bought the same kit ( posted order on Wednesday morning and kit arrived Friday morning! ) and I intend to run it on P4 track. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:16 pm Welly wrote: Trevor - thanks for putting up pictures of your building the Clayton kit! I have recently bought the same kit ( posted order on Wednesday morning and kit arrived Friday morning! ) and I intend to run it on P4 track. Welly i hope you enjoy doing the kit as much as i have been, i picked up the new NBL shunter from JE on Saturday so another kit i have to look forward too No work done over the weekend due to watching too much TV with the TT, Moto GP, Formula One and Euro 2008 all been on along with some diesel modelling show , but will hopefully have a bit of an update later this evening. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:22 am Not much done recently but i did get time yesterday evening to do some work on the motor bogies. Original plan was too use the High level ones but after deciding i have quite a few Black Beetles sat around doing nothing i decided to use them. Some plasticard i think 30 thou was stuck to the sides of the Black Beetle these are the mounting points along with an extra piece of brass angle i fitted to one end of the bogie which rests on top of the Black Beetle, these points will be fixed with either EvoStick or two part epoxy. The brakes consists of two part etch for the shoes and rod, while the sand pipes are 0.4mm brass rod and the guard irons are made from some scrap brass from the frets. The resin bogie sideframes need to be attached which i drilled four 1mm holes in the brass sideframe to give the glue something extra to key too. Although not required as their is plenty of clearance i run a coat of super glue around the brake blocks and any brass that could cause a short from the bogie before it all gets painted, I can't see their been any problems it just something i always use to do on the 7mm RJH kits and its just my way of making doubley sure. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:48 pm A question does anybody know what this is? I always thought it was a handle but on closer inspection it possibly looks more to be a lever of some sought, it is fitted to one side only on both bonnets and seems to be fitted to all members of the class except for a small batch of about ten locos. Shouldn't have a problem modelling something to represent it but would be interested to know what it is. Cheers Trevor __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:59 pm A chance to get some photos on the loco's update. All the etches have now been fitted to the body with the exception of the windscreen wipers which i will fit when completed, i decided to fix the roof pernamently with solder as their is plenty of room to get inside with a paintbrush. The next job will be to give my soldering a good clean before fitting the resin detail parts and then finally the painting and weathering. Meanwhile i have a few bits to solder to the footplate. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Welly on Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:10 pm That's a great looking Clayton, Trevor! My build has stalled somewhat - I'm having trouble with fitting the doorways. Following the instructions is fine if one has a secure and reliable means of holding such narrow strips of etch at 90 degrees to the bodywork whilst soldering them!! I'm also concerned about "sliding" the doors into the half etch grooves - that's OK if I can be sure that they are soldered to the body at just the right distance apart BUT I can't be sure!! How did you do your doorways on the Clayton? __________________________________________ Comment posted by mozzer models on Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:17 pm very nice work there i got the es1 finished __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:12 pm Welly wrote: That's a great looking Clayton, Trevor! My build has stalled somewhat - I'm having trouble with fitting the doorways. Following the instructions is fine if one has a secure and reliable means of holding such narrow strips of etch at 90 degrees to the bodywork whilst soldering them!! I'm also concerned about "sliding" the doors into the half etch grooves - that's OK if I can be sure that they are soldered to the body at just the right distance apart BUT I can't be sure!! How did you do your doorways on the Clayton? Hi Welly, I too had a bit of a problem with this bit basically my thumbs and fingers were getting in the way, it probably would of been easier if i had had something to hold it in place whilst soldering like those small sprung hairgrips or some blutack. But at the time i didn't so i decided to solder the door recesses and door as a seperate item. I laid one of the sides flat on my workbench with the half etched groove facing up, then held the door in the groove at 90 degree while soldering, i then repeated with the other side so i ended up with the doorway now consisting of three parts. I then offered this up do the doorway and checked all was in line then soldered to cabside, i often find it is best to just tack a small spot of solder and then check all is at the right angle before fixing properly. Hope this is of help Trevor. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:16 pm mozzer models wrote: very nice work there i got the es1 finished Thanks Moz I had seen you've got the ES1 finished and a superb job you done with it just wish i could work as quick as you __________________________________________ Comment posted by Welly on Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:03 pm d7093 wrote: I too had a bit of a problem with this bit basically my thumbs and fingers were getting in the way, it probably would of been easier if i had had something to hold it in place whilst soldering like those small sprung hairgrips or some blutack. But at the time i didn't so i decided to solder the door recesses and door as a seperate item. I laid one of the sides flat on my workbench with the half etched groove facing up, then held the door in the groove at 90 degree while soldering, i then repeated with the other side so i ended up with the doorway now consisting of three parts. I then offered this up do the doorway and checked all was in line then soldered to cabside, i often find it is best to just tack a small spot of solder and then check all is at the right angle before fixing properly. Hope this is of help Trevor. Ah, thanks Trevor, I was thinking of doing it the way you had done it - confirmed my idea! __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:59 pm Right between lazing around watching football, Doctor Who, photographing models and playing on the computer, i have managed to do some modeling as well. Today just seems to be one of those days when you feel you have achieved something without any hassle A bit more work has been done on the footplate with the fitting of the ladders, buffers (i used some from A1 models but instructions suggest Gibson 4903 which are sprung, but i have claimed these for another project), snowploughs (A1 models) and lamp irons to the buffer beam. The fuel tanks and battery boxes were folded and soldered and just fell together , i drilled a 3mm hole throygh the tank ends (part #57) directly under the footplate, this will alow me to run the wires from one bogie to the other under the footplate. The tanks are also a four sided affair with no base which solders to the footplate, this would be an ideal place to fit a decoder easily or even a speaker if you're into sound. The Black Beetle is attached to a bearer across the footplate, their are etched spacers under the bearer to adjust the height, the instructions say that the kit requires an extra spacer to heighten the bearer from the footplate, which is not supplied and this is made from a spare strip of etch from the fret and when done it sets the buffer height at the correct level And finally a some shots of all the bits together, the footplate will be bolted to the body with the12x screws supplied which will close the gaps that show between the two halves. __________________________________________ Comment posted by josh993 on Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:48 pm Just been looking through your thread, must say great work love your clayton tho __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:42 pm Hi Josh, Thankyou for the kind comments, The Clayton has been sat around in grey primer for quite a few months now, when i eventually get around to finishing it i'll post some pictures. With a bit of luck it'll hopefully be before the Heljan one appears!! Cheers Trevor. __________________________________________