Ceptic

On taking a step back,..and looking towards the future .....What awaits us ? More roads ?.. Some, as always, support these, but, they always incur a toll ..Whether in life, or price ?,..To add, we've already got Motorways... .Do these really suit 'our needs /,way of travel, ?...Maybe ?.., more convenient ?.....until meeting the tailback / jam./ uphill, labouring trucks.... Railways were, always, our future, and it's about time We caught up

The Std. British Railways '1' appeared on the doors' exterior long before the Cream / Yellow stripe. In fact, the numbers were there in Maunsell's and Bulleid's day, allbe 'em in the latter's case, 'Sunshine' font on 'Malachite'. After Nationalisation, the numbers, both Set, Vehicle and Classification, were gradually changed to the British Railways font. http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/3820543244/in/photostream/ I've got a 1951 dated pic. of a 2-NOL carrying the early 'Lion on Wheel' emblem on the DMBT coupled to it's DTC showing the doors' with BR font '1's. Maybe the NRM haven't got around to affixing them yet and Hornby just copied what they were presented with ?

To illustrate what I mean about the reversing shaft being partly recessed into the firebox cladding, here's a pic of a MN firebox with the same feature. Regards.

Another comparative firebox shot. I reckon the 'Modified's' firebox could do with being a tad wider and higher . Note that reversing shaft, on the Driver's side (nearside) is recessed in a semi-circular groove in the firebox cladding. Also, the top of the 'Original's' smokebox cowl is still too bulbous. I.e. Should be flat, with just the corners' rounded. Cheers.

Maybe so, Pete..... But, If....IF... Hornby are using the B/Belle's bogies under the Bil ?, surely, this is harking back to the days of Triang's 'One fits All' motor bogie,? Remember the SUB, Cl.101 & B/P ?

An SR Official photo of 2116 appears on page 107 of David Brown's excellent 'Southern Electric, A New History', Vol.2. When Chris says that the short,curved rainstrips were placed above every door, that includes the compartment side's doors... Well spotted, young Chris

Hi Colin. I must admit, I've seen nothing, yet, to allay your fears. There's a clip of the collector bogie on p. 171 in Feb's RM which, although not clear, seems to suggest a foot-board fitted to the inner end. If this is anything to go by, both bogies are identical. http://www.Hornby.com/shop/2013-range/diesel-and-electric-locomotives-and-packs/r3162x-br-2-bil-car-emu-pack/ All the best, Frank.

As my Ol' Pappy used t' say,... "The Proof izin the Pudding" Bye the way, I've seen no mention of traction tyres, on this model. Does the B/Belle feature these ?, as I haven't bought one,...yet... Regards.

I'm not quite sure, but, ISTR the roof layout / details changed after the first* (Ooops) third batch. .I.e. The earlier* (Oooops x 2) Last batchs' T/Vents were nearer to, or on,the roof's centre line ** *Note to self...Needs checking out.... Edited after checking photographic references / evidence. 1st. Batch Unit Nos. 2001 - 2010. (Originally 1891 - 1910) .. Off-set T/Vents (towards compt. side), Large flat cooling vents over cab / van. Different window / door layout on corridor side. Off White applied to corridor / compartment panelling. 7 full-size compts./ smaller van compt. on DMBT, Clipped / slim, oblong shanked buffers. http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/3820543076/ 2nd. Batch ..... Nos. 2011 - 2048... Off-set T/Vents. Corridor window / door / compt. layout as Hornby's model. Off White corridor panelling. 6 full-size +1 Coupe compt./ longer van on DMBT. Clipped, slim shanked Buffers http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/6448219213/in/set-72157603648747922/ 3rd. Batch ...Nos.2049 - 2116......Off-set T/Vents. Corridor window layout / compts. as Hornby. Corridor panelling reverted to stained Walnut. Some units had the Heavy Duty S/C Buffers retro-fitted https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5398732955/in/photostream http://southernrailway.net/search/display_pic.php?search_fd0=34435 4th. Batch 2117 - 2152..... T/Vents on roof C/L*. Corridor window layout / compts. as Hornby. Heavy duty S/C Buffers fitted http://southernrailway.net/search/display_pic.php?search_fd0=34437 http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5934429687/in/set-72157603648747922/ References and Acknowledgements * See fresh photos in the February 2013 'Hornby Magazine's supplement, titled 'Hornby Product Guide 2013' .On page 14, Brian Stephenson's photo shows unit 2117, with roof centre T/Vents coupled with an unidentified, 1st batch, 2-BIL with T/Vents off-set, although a page 17 pic, also by Brian Stephenson,.shows unit 2115, with central vents, forming a similar formation. As always, it's the details that provide the minefield Many thanks must go to to Robert Carroll for providing such an accessible source of reference. Also to Michael Welch's books 'A Southern Electric Album' and 'Slam Doors on the Southern', and to David Brown's 'Southern Electric', Vols. 1 & 2 . ** P.S. All this pre ambling (On my part) has, today, been thrown into complete disarray / confusion, after viewing the RM's Feb. 2013 edition, which reviews Hornby's NRM 2-BIL No. 2090. The T/Vents appear to be on the roof's centre line ?. Retiring now, to a dark, distant corner... I may be some time...there

And I'm right behind you both.

Even the old Triang SUB had headcode lighting !!

Nooo, Colin. Don't give up !! i reckon it would very easy for Hornby to produce an un-powered 2-BIL*, if they so wished. They've caught on, so far, to producing 2 reasonable models of pre / post nationalization SR /BR(S) Emus, and I hope the response to these, rewards their efforts. *Would it not be easier for Hornby to use the DTC's u/frame ? I'm pretty sure the DMBT's equipment is plug-in. All it needs is the frames / wheels of the motor bogie. As always, with Hornby, we'll have to play 'Wait 'n see.' All the Best for Christmas and the New Year. Frank.

One way of getting rid of those rivets. I s'pose. On a more serious note, there were other incidents / accidents involving 2-BILs running the West Coastway route... IIRC, one was a rear end collision at Ford, in the early '50s, and a later one, at Angmering, where an Emu formation, including a 2-BIL, hit a Southdown 'bus, in fog, on the level crossing, there. Not a subject to dwell on, or make light of, but, it's strange how these things stick in the mind. Regards.

I hope I'm right in saying this, 'The NRM, early BR version, appears to have the flat top / bottomed oval buffers'. We'll find out, soon enough. All the best

I remember them best on the Brighton - Portsmouth Harbour, 60 (Semi-fast) / 62 (Slow). This is in the days of the 2-NOL Brighton - West Worthing 'Flyer', Number 1. Much easier to bunk, being non corridor. (Not that I'm advocating such behaviour, of course)

Simplest & cheapest way would be to fit knurled wheels to the motor bogie, like the old Triang SUB. That way you get the grinding whine and the sparks

2134, still. looks darker, to me.... If they're both the same colour,... then,... one of 'em's wrong. As you say, we'll wait and see.. All the best for Christmas, .. Ceptic

Many thanks, Natalie Is there, by any chance, you can go further back ?. I would be interested to know why the NRM chose to re-paint their 2-BIL in the lighter Green, as opposed to the BR(S) Green with FYEs ? Compare Andy Y's and Miss Prism's pics of the 2-BIL at Shildon, with other's, and my pics, taken at Woking , when the unit was allowed out. Also raises the question,. Where does one go, these days, to get a sound recording of a SR Emu on the Juice ?? Regards, Frank.

Me, but, it better be good.

Possibly use a couple off second-hand Hornby Mk.1s. These are much the same profile. Just need cutting to length, end domes fabricated, the over-sized gutters + vents shaved down and all the HAL's roof details added.

The two wouldn't necessarily be photos, knowing Hornby's prolific use of artist's (CAD) impressions for their side elevations. I'm sticking with my view,...two different Greens. Compare the forth and fifth pics in Andy Y's preview. http://www.rmweb.co....-announcements/

Hmmmmm. I see what you mean, It does look like a porthole on a battleship.

P.S. Did someone mention rivets ?

Hi all. Re :- The BR Green liveries When the two Hornby versions are put alongside, you'll notice that the NRM model is lighter in colour. http://www.Hornby.co...-2-car-emu-nrm/ NRM http://www.Hornby.co...l-car-emu-pack/ BR The NRM 2-BIL has, since being at Shildon, been re-painted into, what looks to be, post-war Malachite, or a shade known as 'Electric Green'. One time, produced by Phoenix. This is the colour I remember as a kid, albeit weathered with soot & crud. It used to fade into a shade resembling a greenish Turquoise. You'll also notice that the NRM version carries the oblong shanked, straight sided oval buffers, as originally fitted (See SR version) The BR model carries the heavy-duty, self-contained buffers. On the NRM model, spot the earlier scroll written van weight limit.... I'm not sure about the Coaching stock roundel. I thought that came later. If any crests were applied at that time, it would have been a small 'Lion on wheel' emblem. The 'Cream' 1st. class indication stripe didn't appear until the early / mid Sixties. All the same....Not bad, Hornby,...Not bad, at all. Regards, Frank.

A couple of comparative shots, showing just how confusing it can become (Especially if you rely on preserved locos) 34007 'WADEBRIDGE' again, showing correct 8'- 6" wide cab, although, with a 9' wide tender. (Tenders did get swopped around) 34067 'TANGMERE' with 9' wide cab. As built, this loco had an 8'- 6" wide cab, as did all WCs & BoBs up to, and including No. 21C170 / 34070.