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Here: https://uk.Hornby.com/hornbytt120/future - under "Phase 4" Originally spotted by @Les1952

Guys you're just giving him oxygen - best to ignore him before we start down another Hornby-bashing rabbit hole that has nothing to do with TT:120.

As far as I can see - and I'll be happy to be corrected - the only new locos that have been announced were the LNER/BR J94 and the GWR/BR Class 5700 Pannier Tank (these were only hinted at by SK in January) and even these have merely been brought forward into Phase 4 from the post-Phase-4 "And more...!" section in the catalogue. Apart from those are the locos we already knew about - Duchess (already in the online shop), 9F (Phase 3) and Castle (Phase 4) and HST, Class 50, Class 66 (also already in the shop), Class 37 (Phase 3) and Class 31 (Phase 4). Still, that's an awful lot of locos even if they're going to take a few months to arrive - we're still only 9 months since Hornby's original announcement so even if only some of those arrive in the next year or so it'll still be pretty good going. I'm as guilty as the next person for wanting everything to arrive tomorrow and I've moaned about it in the past but it just isn't going to happen so we need some patience. And people are making a fuss over Hornby's delays as a way to take a poke at Hornby but the same people aren't saying anything about the delay to the Peco wagons - these should be much easier to produce than locos and I believe they're produced in the UK, too, but Peco seem to be having similar delivery problems to Hornby. I'm not having a go at Peco - just trying to say that it isn't only Hornby that are experiencing delays with TT:120.

Lovely layouts - and and nice, manageable size so therefore more likely to get finished (in my case, at least!) Plenty of great inspiration there to kickstart me into beginning mine! What is the make of the stone wall on the backscene in this shot? It looks very realistic with a good 3D effect - is it Redutex or is it a home-printed sheet from Scalescenes or SMS or someone? Cheers, Neil.

For weeks many of us have posted pictures and videos of 08s on this thread and on others and there are also plenty more on social media and NONE of them have ladders. Yet here you are today still complaining about the ladders. You claim you are interested in TT:120 but are you not paying attention? Anyone would think you're just making up complaints for the sake of it. Back as far as 30th November 2022 in the second Train Terminal blog "In the Beginning", Hornby said that ladders wouldn't be fitted (that's eight months ago) - do you not read these things? "These samples have highlighted further areas for improvement, for example, they include a set of ladders which although arguably rather balance out the look of the locomotive, they should not be there, consequently feedback will be given to ensure that these are not fitted on production models." Those photographs of the 08s with the ladders were just livery samples, not pre-production prototypes - presumably the factory picked up three early engineering samples and painted them to show the liveries and as such they "highlighted further areas for improvement" and presumably changes were subsequently made. But in an earlier post you said that the 08s have "more than a dozen accuracy errors…". However, given that you didn't even know that they don't have ladders fitted I can only think that you've been judging these "accuracy errors" from the early livery photographs. Perhaps you should take the time to look at the actual models rather than those early photographs? And I have two of them - a BR blue and a GBRf - and they are perfectly acceptable to my eyes and from normal viewing distance but then I have no desire to examine them microscopically to find errors to use as a stick with which to beat Hornby. Why do you keep complaining ad nauseam to us about Hornby quality and about TT:120 on this thread? Do you think any of us can do anything about the lack of quality that you perceive? Why don't you address your complaints directly to Hornby and get answers from them? Then you can come back and tell us what they say. Otherwise all your repeated complaints about TT:120 are just so much hot air. In which case why don't you go away until 'somepoint' happens and then come back at that time. Or, at least, when you've actually paid for something. Until then perhaps you could leave the rest of us that have actually bought something and are happy with it to enjoy it and discuss it in peace.

I agree with your sentiments but I'm not sure I agree with your maths. TT:120 Club members pay £30 for the TT:120 Club membership. Therefore to break even they need to 'earn' £30 in reward points, which means they need to spend £150 on TT:120 goods to break even (i.e. £150 @ 20% = £30), not £300 to break even (£300 @ 20% would be £60, not £30). Just because non-members get 10% reward points without paying any membership surely doesn't affect that calculation. I think £300 is the point where both TT:120 Club members and non-members will get the same benefit. A TT:120 Club member that spends £300 will receive £60 in rewards points (at 20%) but will have spent £30 on membership and so will be effectively £30 up on the deal. A non-member that spends £300 will receive only £30 in rewards points (at 10%) but will not have spent anything on membership and so will also be £30 up. So £300 spend will net £30 in reward points for both members and non-members alike. Therefore I think that non-members are better off up to £300 spend whereas TT:120 Club members are better off over £300 spend. But then in either case you get into the situation where you then need to make a further purchase to redeem the rewards points you've earned and I don't know whether you can pay for TT:120 items solely with rewards points. And if you're pre-ordering some items then you won't get those reward points until later, which means you have to wait a while before you can redeem them. I suppose you would order in-stock items first, wait to receive the reward points for those and then use those reward points you have earned against pre-orders. However people may simply prefer to buy from a retailer and get the 10% (or whatever) discount up front rather receiving reward points. Much less of a headache really. Caveat: I will admit my maths (or even my basic arithmetic) isn't the best so I could well have the sums wrong. Please feel free to correct any mistakes I've made!

You might as well read the Hornby TT:120 thread - all this and more has been discussed and is currently being discussed there. The current topic (amongst others) is whether it is worth renewing the TT:120 Club membership...

From what they say Hornby have been planning this for several years and so they had to launch it at some point, which unfortunately was shortly post-covid, when economic recovery was slow and there was a shortage of electronic components and commodities and there were supply chain issues and more. All of these will have affected production and delivery timescales and I don't see how anyone much less Hornby could be expected to foresee and plan for the severity of all these issues. And I don't know very much about manufacturing overseas but surely Hornby don't just make up release dates out of thin air. Surely Hornby ask the Chinese factory how quickly it will be able to produce each item in all its various liveries and based on that answer Hornby will produce a timeline of 'expected' dates when each item will come to market. So I'd have thought that if anyone could be accused of over-promising and under-delivering then it would more likely be the factory rather than Hornby.

Plus it costs £30 to join and so with 20% reward points you have to spend £150 in order to earn enough reward points to simply break even. And then once earned you have to buy again in order to reclaim that £30 of reward points. However £150 is less than the cost of most of the locos atm so I guess it will depend on how much people are wanting to spend versus potential discounts that might be found with retailers in the future. The current list of TT:120 retailers can be found here https://uk.Hornby.com/hornbytt120/official-stockist and will presumably be updated as more are added.

This was an excellent spot, Les. The page is https://uk.Hornby.com/hornbytt120/future and it took me a while to find it on the Hornby site. I think the reason for the picture of the 9F is that these also scheduled for Phase 3 IIRC but can't think of a reason for the picture of a Class 37 next to Phase 4. There's a bit more at the end: What's to come Beyond Phases Three and Four, there will be a whole variety of modern image EMUs, not to mention several small tank locomotives, plus additional train sets, buildings, rolling stock and virtually everything you need to create your ideal Hornby TT:120 model world. As you mentioned there are no dates for Phases 3 and 4 and it got me wondering where we currently are with respect to the Phases i.e. whether we are still Phase 1 or whether we're into Phase 2 yet. Unfortunately there wasn't really any distinction between Phase 1 and Phase 2 in the catalogue but I'd say we're still in Phase 1 until such time as the TTAs and the 21T minerals arrive (both were originally scheduled to be very early I think). However, there might be a bit of overlap between Phase 1 and Phase 2 since it looks like some Phase 2 items (Duchesses and Class 50s) are now scheduled to arrive at the same time as the 21T minerals in Spring. We just have to hope that some of these dates are a bit pessimistic.

I don't know whether this is of any help but there is some info here regarding Traveline buses and also trains - there seems to be an (almost?) interconnecting station at Hoveton & Wroxham Station: https://www.bvrw.co.uk/contact/find-us

Someone posted the following on Facebook regarding the Peco wagons (posted 21 hours ago): "I wrote to Peco last week about their wagons and this was the reply this morning, fingers crossed it happens. Dear Mr Hall Thank you for your email. Our Sales department advises that the TT wagons are at the trialling stage for paint/printing, so we are hoping to release the first wagons next month."

Somewhat mysteriously, the online shop now says that the Class 08s can run on R1 curves. I'm pretty sure it used to say that the minimum radius was R2, which is kind of confirmed by the box I have which says "minimum radius 310mm", which is R2, whereas R1 is 267mm. Maybe a super-small Class 08 set will be produced with R1 curves and 21T minerals or TTAs, ready for Christmas (I don't think so but I'm just putting it out there!)

I mentioned this previously - it would be nice if Hornby produced just 'train packs' (either loco + carriages or loco + wagons) and then produced 'track packs' separately for people that don't already have track, controller, power supply, etc. Even better, the 'track packs' could also be provided with a choice of R1, R2, R3 or R4 curves, rather than just having the R3 curves that come with the existing sets and bundles. After all, what is the use of multiple sets of R3 curves? But even then, you'd still be getting another controller and power supply that you probably don't want, especially if you're running DCC or if you prefer to use a different DC supply to the one supplied by Hornby. However, I believe I've read that the bundles don't receive the Club discount so even if 'train pack' bundles were available it might still be cheaper to buy the items separately until such time as the TT:120 Club discount runs out.

I agree about them being a short term fix, but now both Scotsman sets contain lit Pullmans - the analogue set has been redesignated from TT1001M to TT1001AM, presumably to reflect the fact that it now contains lit carriages. The digital set obviously hasn't arrived yet but that also comes with lit Pullmans. Presumably Hornby found it too much effort to produce both lit and unlit Pullmans (IIRC the unlit ones were never available to buy separately) so they've dropped the unlit ones.

I kind of agree with this - it could be that the current dates for things like the 66s and the HSTs are fairly large overestimates and that some of the models will come in ahead of their current (i.e. already revised) dates, but I'm not sure Hornby work like this - they seem to like to try to please people by putting the earliest dates possible and then end up revising them over and over. I can't help thinking of the Class 08s where at times it seemed that every month the expected date was next month or even at times just a couple of weeks away only for the date to be extended again and again. And it also could be that Hornby are keeping some stuff secret for a surprise announcement for the lead up to Christmas (like the 0-6-0s or new train sets) but I don't feel it - to me it seems like they're only just keeping their heads above water with these delays, which are likely due to the situation in China or the global availability of commodities or even just staffing levels at the factory rather than being due to Hornby's planning. I'm not being down on Hornby, this is just the way that I see things based on what little evidence we have. And it is still less than a year since the launch of TT:120 so even if the Class 66 doesn't appear until Q2 next year then that will only be 18 months or so from the original announcement, which is probably a pretty short timescale in the scheme of these things. I've been keeping my eye on Heljan's Class 02, which was announced in September 2020 so that's coming up for three years since the original announcement and it still isn't here yet. Granted it is in two scales (00 and 0) and announcing it at what was probably the peak of covid probably hasn't helped it either but Hornby's TT:120 timescales are looking very quick compared to that one. Even the Class 08s were perhaps only four months late, which is nothing, really, but when there is only a very small range available as with TT:120 then any delay can lead to a bit of frustration.

You seem to do an awful lot of assuming. Do you ever base any of these assumptions of yours on even the remotest scintilla of fact? For a start you are ignoring the current estimated delivery dates that are being shown in the online shop: Class 66s: You expect these to be Q1 2024 but the online shop currently says Summer 2024, which is at least Q2 if not Q3. Duchesses and HSTs: You are expecting these before Christmas when the online shop says Spring 2024. As far as I am aware NONE of the initial delivery dates that have ever been shown in the online shop have EVER been met. Quite the opposite - I believe that every delivery date for every proposed TT:120 model has slipped at least once, yet here you are predicting early delivery dates for vast swathes of the catalogue in spite of the evidence that we have so far. Hornby seem to be over-promising and under-delivering with TT:120 and I can't see that changing between now and Christmas or even into next year. This isn't a criticism of Hornby - I'm sure they have every intention of meeting the dates they publish but there are factors beyond their control preventing them from doing so. Even worse than those, you are predicting a date of Q1 2024 for the 0-6-0s when these aren't even in the catalogue at all and no-one has seen so much as a CAD for these, never mind any sort of pre-production 3D print or engineering prototype. And there are many models with release dates later than Q1 so why wouldn't Hornby put the 0-6-0s in the online shop if they were going to be here shortly after Christmas? And just because various model shops are advertising these models for sale doesn't mean that they're going to arrive before Christmas. Model shops will stick to the dates that Hornby gives them - even Kernow is saying Q1/2024 for the Duchess. SK clearly said in January that they were sticking to the phases they'd shown for the locos they'd already shown. He said this just before saying that the 0-6-0s were going for tooling. So if we can believe what he said then the 9Fs (Phase 3) and Castles (Phase 4) will come to market before the 0-6-0s. However no-one has seen even so much as a CAD for any of them so goodness only knows when they will be released. And I know that all this was said in January and that things can change but that was what he said at the time and no-one has heard or seen anything to the contrary since. As for your assumptions about the 2024 range announcements, my recollection is that TT:120 announcements were going to be kept separate from 00 announcements and that the plan was to have quarterly announcements of new models for TT:120. Whether this is still feasible with the production delays that seem to be occurring is another matter. And as for any sort of 'surprise announcements' in the lead up to Christmas, I just can't see it. For a start Hornby seem to want to announce everything as far in advance as possible - keeping stuff secret doesn't seem to be the way they work. Secondly there is so much stuff that has been delayed already (21T minerals, TTAs, HAAs, digital Scotsman and Easterner sets to name a few, possibly also the 66s and HSTs) then I think they'd want to get any 'good news' announcements about new models out as early as possible, especially the 0-6-0s. I'd dearly love to be wrong but based on the evidence that we've seen so far regarding the shop and the release dates and also based on the information given out by SK at the time that he spoke about the 0-6-0s then I just can't see the 0-6-0s being here any time soon and I can't imagine models being released early as you are assuming.

Don't forget there is also all the printing and the livery options - these also require a lot of backwards and forwards between Hornby and the factory to get all the colours, lettering, fine detail, etc, etc correct and the more liveries there are then the longer this takes

I've also received an email from Saga offering TT:120 with a 10% discount to Saga customers: Love trains? Embark on a special journey with Hornby TT:120, a table top model railway system that’s small in size yet packed with detail. Get yours today & enjoy a special 10% discount for Saga customers - use SagaTT23 at checkout*

In this instance the online shop is where you need to look - current estimate for all five liveries is: Expected Summer 2024.

The 0-6-0s were mentioned by SK in the livestream on the 19th January, where SK was asked the question "what other locos will be done for TT next". SK first replied that for the moment they will "stick with the phases we've shown for the locos we've shown", so given that no 0-6-0s are listed in Phases 1 to 4 then the conclusion must be that the 0-6-0s will be released in Phase 5 or later, and this is where they're shown on Page 9 of the current catalogue after the Phase 3 locos (9Fs) and the Phase 4 locos (Castles) as "Plus, BR Britannia, LMS/BR Black 5, J94, GWR/BR Class 5700 Pannier and much more!" In the livestream SK then goes on to say that "there are other locos we have designed; we've been asked for 0-6-0s and there's one in tooling and another being prepared for tooling." So if the 0-6-0s were to be released next year as you suggest then that would contradict what SK had said moments before about sticking with the phases they'd shown for the locos they'd shown because Princess Coronations (Duchesses), 9Fs and Castles are all listed before J94s and 5700s - unless you're saying that we're going to see Princess Coronations, 9Fs and Castles in the next six to nine months, which seems unlikely given that there's been nothing about 9Fs and Castles and only a very little about Princess Coronations (the shop currently says Spring 2024 for these). I think all this goes back to what was said before - SK was saying things to keep up the momentum and to make TT:120 sound exciting without ever giving dates or timescales for any of this stuff. Then people pick up on the bits they're interested in and expect it will be here in a few short months when in reality it will probably take a year or more. And as for the 66s, I've just checked the shop and the current dates say Summer 2024, so that's Q2/Q3 next year. I feel sure that the original release dates for the 66s were for some time late this year, although maybe I'm mis-remembering because so many dates have slipped that I'm having trouble remembering what the original dates were for these. But I find it difficult to believe that the 0-6-0s will be released at the same time as the 66s because a lot of information has been floating around for the 66s for some time but we've had nothing on the 0-6-0s besides that one comment by SK back in January.

The same for the TT Talk videos. I'm not complaining here - it was SK's job to make TT:120 sound shiny and exciting to keep the momentum up and therfore he was always going to make promises of new items but he was hardly likely to say that they wouldn't be available for many months (or even years) while the existing items were rolled out and the new items were designed from the ground up. From what we've been told he was as enthusiastic about TT:120 as any of us and consequently he (and Hornby) would have wanted to see all of these items on the market as soon as possible rather than the slow drip of releases we're seeing currently but there are probably many things are outside Hornby's control at the moment.

Sorry to pour cold water on your froth Andrew - this is just a guess but I would have thought an 0-6-0T is unlikely to be appearing anytime soon given we're still awaiting wagons such as the 21T minerals, which I think were originally due in January together with the 08s but they're still not here. Then there are the TTAs (originally due in Spring?) and HAAs. These were all in the pipeline since Day 1 but are still not here even though wagons should be much easier to get out than locos. Even the digital Scotman and Easterner sets haven't appeared yet, which you would have thought would be easy to produce but presumably these are held up by a lack of chips rather than anything else. Or maybe a lack of people on the assembly line - I think I heard somewhere that Hornby underestimated the demand for TT:120. Then there are the 66s (not much new info about those in the latest Train Terminal) and the 50s, which are only at the stage of putting together the first test mouldings. Both have also been in the pipeline since TT:120 was launched but seem to be taking ages. Lately I'm beginning to think my initial TT:120 Club membership will run out before we see a 66... I think all the above points to a lack of production capacity in China. So if an 0-6-0T was only just in tooling then I think there's a long way to go (with a lot of too-ing and fro-ing between Margate and the factory) before we see anything appearing, especially judging by the progress of the 66s and the 50s. Sorry to be a bit glass-half-empty... hopefully I'm wrong! Cheers, Neil.

Apologies for the cross-post from the TT:120 Class 08 thread, but I've duplicated it here just in case anyone isn't following that thread... Here is an excellent video of someone fitting a Class 08 with an 8-pin TXS sound decoder and speaker - plus a stayalive, a flywheel(!), lights (including a cab light) and two crew members! I'm no expert so I'm not sure that the running lights are prototypically correct but even so I think it is brilliantly done. Perhaps not for the faint-hearted as there is some work required with a Dremel. Plus there are an awful lot of wires to cram in under the body. I think it is a pity that Hornby couldn't have offered sound as standard, especially as Bachmann Farish have managed to fit an 18-pin sound decoder in their N Gauge 08s. However the current generation of Hornby TXS 18-pin decoders probably wouldn't fit so hopefully Hornby will redesign when smaller TXS decoders become available, or they could just use the 8-pin as in the video. With this sort of micro-engineering I guess there is hope for fitting sound into smaller TT:120 locos such as 0-4-0s, especially as the same guy has also managed to fit a stayalive and lights to a sound-fitted BachFar 08, which shows that almost anything is possible if you have the knowhow - and the courage!

Here is an excellent video of someone fitting a Class 08 with an 8-pin TXS sound decoder and speaker - plus a stayalive, a flywheel(!), lights (including a cab light) and two crew members! I'm no expert so I'm not sure that the running lights are prototypically correct but even so I think it is brilliantly done. Perhaps not for the faint-hearted as there is some work required with a Dremel. Plus there are an awful lot of wires to cram in under the body. I think it is a pity that Hornby couldn't have offered sound as standard, especially as Bachmann Farish have managed to fit an 18-pin sound decoder in their N Gauge 08s. However the current generation of Hornby TXS 18-pin decoders probably wouldn't fit so hopefully Hornby will redesign when smaller TXS decoders become available, or they could just use the 8-pin as in the video. With this sort of micro-engineering I guess there is hope for fitting sound into smaller TT:120 locos such as 0-4-0s, especially as the same guy has also managed to fit a stayalive and lights to a sound-fitted BachFar 08, which shows that almost anything is possible if you have the knowhow - and the courage!