The Black Hat

Actually following your idea, its Bachmann to the rescue. I have an old B1 model, oddly enough of a green 1264, one of two older Bachmann B1s with the split chasis that I had. One is sold the other for spares as it was damaged. I talked to a Bachmann rep at Shildon about how good their updated model is. To be honest given the pair the body still holds up well. What swayed it for me was the decoder socket in the tender in Hornbys model as it makes fitting sound to it a lot easier. I was disapointed when the Hornby model brought out the North British and Doncaster style smokebox. Its one of the clearer signs of an engines past but it seems all traces of North Eastern heritage are removed or discounted. No doubt, after all my efforts wanting a Darlington style smokebox on my B1, 61264 will be done by Hornby. It happened with by 46115 that I altered and then they announced. For the western fans, Ive just done 5043 Earl of Mount Edgcumbe so expect that to be out too. So, back to my B1, and the spares off the old model for the dynamo and the electric lights will be added in due course. Will update with photos when I get the chance.

Well Ive gone and done it. Ive attacked my model of 61138 as Im thinking what with delays and so forth any B1 with a Darlington type smokebox will be ages away. While I was thinking of modelling 61264 as it is at present my heart has won and Ive gone and done some modelling to back date the engine to its guise of around 2000-2008 before its last overhaul. Ive used a Hornby D49 front to be the donor, and attached some plastic-card to add a lamp bracket and numberplate. The bracket is disgused with a headboard 'The Good Endeavour' my play on the Endeavour Explorer that the NYMR ran a few years ago. Considering the age of the previous model the front looks good and accurate. Im not going the whole hog of changing the smokebox door handles too, even if this was done in a recent model rail magazine article that spurred me into tackelling this challenge that has been on the to do list for a while. What Im needing now are some electric lights to go onto the bufferbeam and the electric generator that sits on the running board next to the smokebox door. Can anyone suggest where to get these from? Thanks in advance...

Very good! I know the black ones on the model are for 834, and that 826 Springburn had Black plates, but I was wondering about 47831 Bolton Wanderer or 47854 WRVS, but have not seen pictures of them with black plates before their repaint into Virgin Cross Country when the plates were seen as Black.

Did Intercity Cross Country class 47/8s always have red nameplates? Im sure I remember some of them being Black, and that it was in their final years before VXC red was painted. Looking at pictures for research Im not sure....

As soon as they land Im driving to Leeds!

Yes it would be nice to see one in BR Green, with the whole smokebox as far as the first banding black and the rest of the livery as per A4, A2, etc... but ruined? I think not... *This isnt the place to go down the Gresley / Thompson rebuild argument either! Most of what people say is recycled anyway...

In view of my attempt to help see which Intercity 47s can be done for my own research to choose one to renumber... looking into the Res 47s has brought these results although, I have started from 47721 as from 47701 to 47721 is a minefield of differnet liveries and uses. The main Res fleet went from 47721 to 47799. Those that would be fine to renumber with the current Bachmann model include 47721, 27, 33, 34, 36, 41, 43, 44, 45, 59, 60 - 63, 65, 67, 69, 70-75, 78, 79-81, 84, 89 and 47791. Those that had a flush front and thus cant be done are: 725, 26, 42, 46, 47, 64, 76, 87. Those that had light bulb headcodes fitted at both ends, rather than one as per the model and thus cant be done are; 47732, 37, 49, 50, 56, 57, 58, 68, 77, 83, 92 and 47793. Some had oval buffers, akin to a class 60, rather than round ones like the model, so it rules out; 47722, 38, 39, 50, 66, 85, 88 and 90. (47766 had them at one end only... incase you fancy something different!) Ones with black headcodes are 47736, 47772 and 47791. These could be modeled using the current model as a base, but careful with 47772 as it had unique black boxes around its bulbs and retained a yellow area between the two. There are a few to avoid as these became celebs. 47769 became the only 47/7 to go into Virgin XC colours when hired in by Riveria. 47773 became the 47 at Tysley in BR green and 47787 was quite a celeb. Others to watch are those that became part of the EWS fleet that then recieved EWS livery and some even had further mods for reliability in traffic. These could overlap with future releases by Bachmann in the future if you want to save on ordering that repaint and wait for them to produce one, which Im sure they will get round to annoucing next year! *hint hint...* Other ones in a similar vien would be to avoid the WCRC machines as a few of these were former Res kit as again, modelling the twilight of their use with EWS can cross with WCRC and thus the two could possibly be seen together. Im not saying such a list is conclusive. Its best to check any particular engine your interested in fully, before embarking on attaching your new Bachmann model as some with the likes of changing the buffers could be fine and others not! That said, Ive just bought some nameplates and spare buffers to do 47790....

Yes I have noticed that the cut away cab really does open up the possibilities for the class to be brought into the modern day 'modern image' scene, ie since privitisation. The Res and Intercity 47s both make modelling their main use in the 1990s to 2000 possible and theres other varients for areas like NSE and freight. I would think that the cabs are indeed seperate and that both ends can be done although they might need to have two cabs of the same type. Maybe the answer would be for a headcode box and bulbs with a flush front - as there are many examples of the class in its later years with that configuration. Another plus for the lads at Barwell is that the configurations they have chosen mean that renumbering is easier, rather than examples only good for doing one, such as Hornby's Fragonset 31452 as a brilliant example as none of the others had the front light in the same configuration. I bet many people dont just get one Res 47, and that two is more likely. The inflation of prices might make that more difficult however. Im sure that next year more releases of class 47 will follow and am sure they will be EWS, Freightliner, Colas. WCRC might feature for a limited ed run by someone as it has been mentioned before.

Im up for some Northern 144s... But cant wait for the Provincial 143 and Tyne and Wear 143.... bound to get them! If not a pair of both!

I didnt think to check of cowlings if Im honest and the whole process makes me have huge respect for the lads at Barwell who get it spot on every time for an exact time and period of operation. I know theres a few errors in the list but as a rough guide its a starting point. Always helps to research your engine in particular afterwards to the hilt before you start applying numbers but i hope for others its a start!

Thought I would share the research I have done to see what my options are for renumbering the class 47s that are arriving. The Intercity one has marker lights of two different kinds, noticed elsewhere in this thread. It does limit some options as not all 47s were run with these, although the great majority seemed to from the early 90s onwards. From what I can tell, numbers 2, 5, 6, 8, 9, 19, 20, 21, 29, 30-39, 41-51 all had the same marker set up as the model, which is 47834. Some class 47/8's recieved flush front early being numbers 10,11,12 and 16, so these would be no good. Likewise some had the marker headcode bulbs fitted at both ends being 7,14, 26, 28, 40 and 54. So that rules out 47826 which was to be my first choice. Pending on the period your operating and from what I've noticed, some 47's that had the marker lights had these removed and replaced with the bulbs and flush front. Ones that had the change were 24, 27, 30, 41, 46 and 53. Some 47s rule themselves out owing to livery. 47801 was large logo, 47802 was mainly in the infrastucture livery it became well known for, and 47852 was in BR blue minus the large logo. 47833 became a BR railtour engine painted into a mock BR green and thus probably wouldnt be a good choice for renumbering. 47818 had oval buffers rather than the round ones on the model so that ones ruled out too. 47824 and 47832 had full yellow ends including cab window surrounds at one point. So they could be one for adding something different. One 47824 I think had a black headcode box too. Happily, a few of the 47/8's were named and thus give something to go over the nameplate where it is on 47834, even if maybe the subject models plates are a bit lower compared with the norm for the livery. Those named where; 47805 - Bristol Barton Hill 47809 - Finsbury Park 47821 - Royal Worcester 47824 - Glorious Devon 47831 - Bolton Wanderer 47834 - Fire Fly 47833 - Captain Peter Manisty RN 47835 - Windsor Castle 47840 - North Star 47844 - Derby and Derbyshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry 47845 - County of Kent 47846 - Thor So after all that.... just need to choose which one now...

Looking forward to those arriving soon and also the two more units to come afterwards. Any more on what those will be? Cant wait for the 144 to arrive, followed by the later 143s in a year or so's time. Really has been a brilliant project and am sure the two of you are thrilled to see it coming to completion. Hopefully more releases and other units follow as these raise the bar to new standards.

Seems like the Res and intercity 47s are hitting the shops. Already placed the order for the nameplates to renumber my pair when I get them.

47798 has arrived here at 51F, quite a short hop from Locomotion. Model looks brilliant. Almost a shame to turn it into a runner with DCC sound and adding the detail but thats what happening to mine!

I was hoping to do some modelling to add the various parts needed to turn it into 61264. Having seen the engine running at the NYMR (see here: http://www.blackhatrailwaypictures.co.uk/p334056160) a model of the engine for my preserved railway is a must. I noticed how the smokebox door looked more rounded than before, but given that I thought the door would have covered the rim of the smokebox that it wasn't fashioned as others of the class were, where you can see the rounded smokebox much more prominently. Personally, the flat and uniform front, akin to the NER type I think does look much better, giving it a line and pedigree of NER designs that continued to be made up north. The D49, J39 being examples of this. Its one reason why I love the evolution of Western engines designs and of Staniers work on the Midland. The B1 can stand by a J21, Q6 and D49 really looking a part of a family. Still, its a smokebox door and Im really glad the engine is back. What I don't like is the fact that some enthusiasts want a more standard B1 look and cast off NER lineage as a by product. Yet, they are putting the graft in and getting back in traffic. Its a real achievement that the overhaul has been done on such a budget and to such a very high standard. Will be great to see the B1 on the Moors with a new home base giving the line a more authentic touch. Hopefully, I can model a part of that success.

Having scoured over the B1 in person at the NYMR some weeks ago, I have then noticed that the 61138 model from Hornby can indeed be altered to model the locomotive 61264, as it does have the right North Eastern styled smokebox and door. However, one part Im missing is the dynamo for the generation of some electricity. Anyone know where one can be obtained in model form. Will update on how the change of identity goes. Meanwhile, Im sure B1s have visitied Whitby but on the Whitby Town station area. Was the limit at Sandsend due to axle loadings over the wooden bridge? Will try to confirm that info for you.

They got to Darlington did they?

Cant wait!! Surely a contender for model of the year given the detail...

Hello Scott, I have just found this thread and found it all really interesting. I think if your on about locations perhaps Darlington is the area you should be looking at. Darlington at the time of the NER - to North Eastern Region, had it all. So you can choose which bits not to have really.... it had the modern shed, goods yard, branch workings, semi fast services a locomotive works to turn out new build or overhauled. It even had a pair of pacific class engines on standby duty. Your station seems overtly complex. Rather it could be done by combining areas and grouping platforms together. The approach seems to show that all trains would be converging on the station, but do the fly overs mean the station is on two heights like one was at Leeds. If not, I would think some gorgeous approaches with fly overs could be done before it all mixes into one station with platforms allocated for kinds of trains and bays for some others etc. Id be happy to help advise, being a young man proud of being North Eastern. I will follow this with great interest.

Never mind the seats... if it doesnt have chewing gum thats been stood on and turned black on the floor this model really isnt up to it and until Ive added some blobs of paint on mine Im just not going to sleep at night!

When you poped off the smokebox door did it still leave the ring around the box where the door sits up against. Am planning to do some modelling myself now - given no new B1s from Hornby this year! have ordered the door from 247 developments.

Any update of which hall we think would be better between the refubished engine from Bachmann which is now in the shops and the design clever one that Hornby is annoucing. I am wondering what others make of the Bachmann Hall and how much space there is for fitting sound etc, as I would think the decoder is in the engine with no wires to the tender.

Finally an annoucement today of something worth buying!