Scorpio7uk

....and colour perception is different for everybody......

I would go with what ever is 'technically' right with any written information you have. There's nobody left alive to tell us what the wagon colours looked like - and if there was, 'colour memory' is notoriously inaccurate. You also have to consider 'scale colour' - if you paint a 7mm or 4mm loco with the exact shade of green the 1:1 loco is painted, it usually looks completely wrong probably because of the 'size' of the area of colour and the way the eye/brain sees colour - I don't really know the science behind it, I only know this is the case. As for faded Red on cars - this also fades differently on different materials - the plastic bits on my Wife's car has kept the correct original shade better than the metal bits - which may have the same effect on the metal or wood bits on wagons. Easiest solution - paint everything Black! (but not Blackberry Black - that's the wrong shade). By the way - the tank wagon looks similar in shade to other GWR wagon models of the same period that I've seen - but that's relying on my colour memory. Jeff

......The comfy chair!

Wow! - they had some really steep gradients on the Broad Gauge! Jeff

The bell might be in the cab........ These pictures tend to show the guide poles on the tender but no sign of the bell.... https://broadgauge.co.uk/locomotives/a59_388_class_convertible.shtml The more conventional position would be on the right hand tender frames, as shown on the first couple of shots of Iron Dukes on this page http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-tenders.html (it tended to be attached above the footplate on SG tenders) Other then that - not sure - but I think it's safe to assume that if the poles are still being used and there's no sign of the bell outside (on the drivers side) then I think it must be in the cab somewhere. Jeff

I built my old Vulcan 8750 pannier back in 1991 (when I was 16!) and put loads of Lead in it and made it really heavy (don't remember how much - maybe 4lb). I used to run it regularly round the test track in Cardiff bay - part of the old Industrial & Maritime museum (demolished to make way for the Millennium Centre - the museum is now in Swansea - test track was destroyed by arson)......... Anyway.... the pannier used to happily trundle around with 40-50 wagons behind it......I later took all the weight out - this made no difference - it still pulled the same load happily! My conclusion was that weight is useful but in this instance it was more the case that the chassis was perfectly square and had beam compensation so it was firmly planted - even without the weight (if that makes sense). We could always go into a discussion about scale weight and getting a realistic slip when starting - but I think that's one for another month! Jeff

There's a photo of 3160 in Locomotives Illustrated No33 (page 10) pre-WW1, pretty much as built - showing the original bunker and the rivet line (as far as I can see) is the same as those fitted with water scoop - perhaps they'd already made the parts for the later batch before deciding to ditch the scoop? - Sorry - just realised I've got this the wrong way round as the scoop was fitted to the later batch!........ Jeff

I think you're almost there with the depths and rivet lines...... No 99 (the prototype), which was later 3100 / 5100 then later rebuilt as 8100 was always different as far as I can see - look at https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2019/12/gwr-tank-classes-steam-locomotives-lost-class.html this shows the same slope as you've seen on 5100 (with a shallow bunker), when it was rebuilt as 8100 - it seems to have got a 5101/61xx style deep bunker. The 3111/5111 (excluding 5100) seem to all have the shallow bunker with a straight rivet line across - and these seem to have been kept when rebuilt as the 81xx (apart from 8100). The 3150 always had the deeper bunker with the sloping/straight line - and these were kept when rebuilding as the Collett 31xx as you've shown. The 5101 & 61xx bunker seems to have been based on the 3150 design (but slightly different rivet line). I've said shallow & deep, but as you say, I think there seems to be a couple of depths of each! I think the 3150 / Collett 31xx was always slightly deeper than the 5101/61xx due to the top of the bunker of the former being slightly higher than the tank top, whereas on all the other classes, this was inline. There does also seem to be slight depth variations in the shallow design - for instance between figures 546 & 547 in Russell, the depth appears to be different but counting the vertical pairs of rivets going up from the horizontal line - it would seem to be within pair 6 & 7 in both cases - maybe an optical illusion? I'm not sure. I would ignore the A13 weight diagram - I've found pictures of all the Collett 31xx apart from 3104 and they all show the pattern you've identified from photos (which also matches up with the 3150). Jeff

There seems to be variation in bunker depth, this:- https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4977976 shows the shallow depth I mentioned above, but this:- https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrls235.htm shows the deeper bunker normally used on the 61xx. Jeff

One thing that hasn't been mentioned above which I feel is important is that the 81xx and 31xx were rebuilds of the original 31xx and 3150 classes - it was intended to rebuild them all I think but the war got in the way.... Knowing the 81xxs were rebuilds explains the differences between them and the Collett tanks - there's quite a few! The cab profile with its separate roof was kept from the original 31xx - which was quite different to Collett's modern 'wrap around' cab/roof. The vertical depth of the 'stick out' portion of the bunker was also much shallower on the 81xx than the 5101/61xx (I think the drawing in Russells book shows this wrongly but it is quite clear on the photograph). The portion of the motion plate above the footplate (immediately in front of the tanks) was also carried over from the original 31xx and is quite different to the 'modern' style. The curve 'drop' portion of the footplate starts closer to the front of the cylinders than on the 5101/61xx so the cover for the pony spring on the footplate is a different shape as it is further forward on the 'curve'. There's also variation on the boiler fittings as most of these were carried over from the 31xx - tall safety valves and cast iron chimneys were carried as an example. I think that's about it - I'm not at home at the moment, so I can't check. It won't surprise you to learn that I have looked into making one of these from one of our own 61xx kits in 7mm which is why the differences are floating around in my head ready to spill onto the page! Thanks Jeff Ennis Scorpio Models

You are certainly right about the frames and springing, but I'm not certain of the Whitemetal horn guides Dad designed this kit about 20 years ago so bear with me..... and the instructions don't make this any clearer as the casting doesn't seem to be used! The outside frame horn guides are represented by etchings, so the castings would seem surplus for that purpose, but the rivet pattern does match up with the frames and there are six of them! Personally, I would use a pair of them for the inner frames, on the crank axle (if you can fit them in) as this is more visible. Sorry I couldn't be more definitive.... Jeff

I don't know why 7mm manufacturers use inside bearing wheels for outside bearing tenders either! With this in mind, the GWR 2000 gallon tender I've almost finished designing will be outside bearing only. I believe that inside bearings on the Armstrong Goods were on the crank axle only and didn't touch the outer axles - we only put bearings on it for convenience at the time. I hope the valve gear works out - I was about to say that you've got more room being BG, but of course you haven't! Thanks Jeff Scorpio Models

Speeding along as usual Ken...great work....... You may want to see this if you haven't already...... Nick built the same kit and pushed out frames with working valve gear etc. with lots of improvements along the way..... Jeff

I'd probably do the same - good luck! Jeff Scorpio Models

Sorry Simon - didn't see you'd already mentioned the drawing! Jeff

We do the following:- Loriot L - G13 Loriot N - G40 Loriot W - G27 The Loriot W is a similar 'shape' to the Y so it might be possible to make one out of a W - though a lot of scratchbuilding would still be required. Loriot W: - http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=11360&forum_id=146 Loriot Y:- - https://www.flickr.com/photos/svr_enthusiast/6916487317 There is a 4mm drawing in Atkins / Beard / Tourett's 'GWR Goods Wagons' on page 160 (in the 1998 edition). Thanks Jeff Ennis Scorpio Models

The signalling bell in the cab is for the ATC (Automatic Train Control) system (BR had AWS) and nothing to do with the auto-train equipment as far as I know. Jeff

There should be hornblock castings supplied - I suspect Ken has just left them off for painting. Thanks Jeff Scorpio Models

Ken, I think we should have supplied an alternative 'plain' roof with this one! As far as I can make out (and I can't remember what I worked out 23 years ago!) there seems to be two systems of 'sheeting':- the one with the hooks in the middle of the roof as I've drawn and the other, where it's attached to the back of the roof with some very small hooks - then hooked to the bunker. This picture http://www.gwr.org.uk/pannier-pics/652-small.jpg shows the hooks at the back which may be of use - it's on this page http://www.gwr.org.uk/nopanniers.html which actually has some good pictures of the sheeting The picture I have seen of 1176 (in Russell's 'Pictorial record of GWR engines part 1 - figure 231) shows it with the sheet stowed on the back edge of the roof with no hooks visible on the roof itself. With all that said - it is very difficult to see what it going on on the roof most of the time which is why I probably made the assumption that this is how it always was (never assume this!) I'm waffling now - I wish I'd supplied a spare - I think it would be quicker to make a new roof than to try and file off the brackets. Jeff

Glad it's working out ok. I meant to say last time, it looks like you've soldered the rear support for the roof to the front of the spectacle plate - it might be worth checking this before going any further. Jeff

Hope it turns out OK Ken. It was designed a long time ago now - my second loco kit - the first was the Buffalo Pannier with most parts in common with this kit. It was designed with the old Slaters' 'push on' outside crank system in mind so I hope that they fit ok! Thanks Jeff Scorpio Models

I may as include these as well...... Cab details... That's pretty much all the pictures I took of that engine on the day - I'm sure I have a 'stripped down' shot as well from another time - I'll have a look.... Jeff

....and a few more... Hope these are useful to you. Jeff

Something which might help you along..... I've added a couple of videos to my youtube channel from my visit to Didcot back in 2008 - shows the Cardiff Railway 1338 - might be useful to get the valve gear movement right (which as far as I can see is pretty much identical. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDff01DV0sCTUO5Z0mCVqfg and a few pictures:- Jeff

Don't assume anything! On the Eileen's website they say "Depending on what happens with Brexit we will stop accepting EU orders while we sort thing out. This will be temporary and resulme as soon as possible." Clearly they expect it to be temporary as nobody knows for certain what the result will be on January 1st - or later...... Jeff