Bomag

26 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Seems to be a fact if this web site is correct

https://www.steelconstruction.info/Weathering_steel

 

The marketing blurb hasn't changes since we put a load of bridges up in this stuff in the late 1990's. Jury is still out as to the impact of strain and fatigue. What do I know though, I only have a M.Sc in structural engineering.

I watched both the Charing Cross and Bramhope tunnel episodes yesterday.

The Bramhope tunnel one was great and the bit about William MaCalpine implied how much unstructured enthusiasm he showed in person. Unfortunately the lavish praise about the Ordsal bridge in the Charing X program was hard to take given that if you want to go to Man Pic from Leeds we have a slower, less frequent and much less reliable service than before. There was a funny bit where it suggested that weathering steel is low maintenance (if only!) .

24 minutes ago, Roy L S said:

 

 

The sound fitted BR Green and Blue models are all from the same Farish production run and sold through much faster than the remaining more modern/refurbished variants which can still be found easily, often at significant discounts.

 

Here is the You-Tube promotional video from Bachmann 6 liveries in total: -

 

Closer Look | Graham Farish Class 31 SOUND FITTED - YouTube

 

As mentioned above Farish did two different version of the Class 31 at the same time one version (three models) covered the class from conversion to the late 80's the other (two liveries) for about 10 years from the mid 80's. I am still not getting your point - the inference seams to be that models of 1970's  'banger blue' locos sell better than 1980's liveries. but since banger blue was still a significant livery in the 1980's I would expect that somebody buying a railfreight livery version would also buy a blue version as well - I have both blue and RFG liveries. In fact I would not mind a sound RF version to round off the trio but I cannot fined one from from somewhere I trust with more than a 14% discount.

Similarly, if they do a revised peak I would expect them to do versions with both the revised front and with head boxes, selling out the latter would not mean the 1980's version is not popular.

44 minutes ago, Roy L S said:

I don't think that's right, a quick search turned up the latest sound model (unsurprisingly sold out!) in BR Green, and I am sure BR blue was an option too. I have the first incarnation of the "new" Class 31 and that as far as I am aware has a different (can motor) 6 pin DCC chassis rather than coreless motor Next 18 chassis of the most recent.

 

Graham Farish - 371-111ASF - Class 31/1 D5616 BR Green Sound (burevalleymodels.com)

 

Roy

Sorry I don't understand, the fact that a model has a 'Next 18' chassis has no bearing on whether its a refurbished loco - 111ASF, 112ASF and 113ASF are sound fitted un-refurbished Class 31s (is 111ASF even a 31 or class 30?) - most retailers I checked has the refurbished railfreight locos at a higher price.

1 hour ago, Roy L S said:

 

I respectfully disagree that the V2 had less diverse usage and likely appeal than a Class 45! 

 

The V2s were used from Scotland down to London, I think some parts of East Anglia, across to Banbury and Oxford and even down on the Southern for a time as replacements for (I believe) West Country/Battle of Britain Class which had teething troubles. You could run one from the mid 1930s all the way through to the early "noughties" in preservation, a number of livery variations. In terms of usage, fast fitted freights, unfitted minerals, parcels, mail, express passenger, semi-fast passenger and local turns on occasion - at least as diverse in terms of usage as a "Peak". A V2 to current standards would fly off the shelves, especially assuming sound ready.

 

Don't get me wrong I would love a Peak, but you massively underestimate what the V2 was about if the above is what you think.

 

Regards

 

Roy

 

 

As a mainly ER modeller I would buy several V2 if an updated version is available (currently got a BR black and BR green version) but in no way could a V2 be considered as wide ranging as peaks which were ubiquitous in various parts of their life on the LMR/ScR from London to Waverley and St Enoch, Northern England from Newcastle to Holyhead and SW/NE down to Plymouth (and beyond?) . As much as I like my O6 and O7 I would not say that expect a second run. 

As for your other comment both the green and blue versions of the Class 31were the older model and the ones still available are the more expensive refurbished ones (although I cannot see a LL version only the two railfreight versions).

As for the suggestion of more EMUs, I would love them 303, 305, 308, 309, 310/312. A bit niche though - looking forward to my 321s and 313s from Revolution, but the problem with EMUs is when asked many people say 'not those EMUs, my EMUs'.  Even looking at 3rd rail EMUs there was limited types which were in all three divisions -CIG and VEP.

10 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Any evidence to support that assertion?

It'd be interesting to know what are the top ten.

 

Your previous prejudice against peaks is showing.

If you are looking for a loco which needs improving (or new) which covers multiple regions and can have multiple liveries and /or names then there is limited alternatives which have not be produced or announced.   While there are a number of classes of a similar size which could do with a revamp e.g. V2, they have a less diverse usage and likely appeal.

While the above is loco centric, if we are looking at other things we are looking at things like catering coaches (with Mk1 RB / RBR leading) and a possibly a RTP code 40 track system. 

37 minutes ago, bristolian said:

Sorry for the late reply to this thread. Back in October 1975, Bristol received at least two Class 101 three-car sets from the Eastern Region. They returned NE back at the beginning of May 1976.

The sets concerned were numbered B900 and B901. B900 comprised E50168 / E59082 / E50266. I didn't log the individual cars for set B901 though.

 

Can anyone help, please?. :).

From Longworth/Harris allocations it looks to be DMCL 50240/50245 and TBSL 59095. They returned to NL on 2nd May 76 and the to the Gosforth in June

Until Liverpool Street was rebuilt/desecrated the one or two loco hauled services an hour to Norwich and Kings Lynn had no real impact on air quality. As they found when did loco changes at Cambridge and Ipswich even the slickest loco change would wipe out any reduction in journey time from extra 1000hp+ a Class 86 could provide (as said top speed was irrelevant it was ability to accelerate which was improved). They only did it for mileage accumulation under the wires and to release some of the SF 47/4s. Also doing loco changes on the up line at Colchester would have been a nightmare; the benefit if both Cambridge and Ipswich is that they had convenient crossovers, (in the station or south of the tunnel). 

The list may be slightly out of date for which vehicles are owned by VSOE

A combination of Arnold 5 Bell and upcoming Revolution Steel K covers the majority of the stock.

22 hours ago, MrSimon said:

Great that these are coming out - would be interested to see what the options are - would be good to have some 2 packs for modern rail tours where they can be mixed in with other types.

 

Also, they must run well with Farish MK1/2s and Mark 1 Pullmans.

Other than the ones with VSOE (which don't mix with other rates) the only one seen near a mainline is PTB 232 (Car 79) on the NYMR dining train with an eclectic mix of the last original condition RF 324 plus on each of PFP and PFK Mk1 Met cams 321 and 328.

6 hours ago, grahame said:

This might be a little contentious, but I'm starting to feel that TINGS is loosing its way as the UK premier international N gauge/scale show. It was disappointing (perhaps some of it due to covid) that there were some manufacturers and service providers missing (or who have never attended) like Peco, Kato, Union Mills, Mercig and DMToys/Modellbahn Union. And I appreciate that there will be various reasons and excuses for that. But it does also seem to becoming a RTR fest for box shifters at the expense of parts and spares sellers.

 

There were three things I was particularly hoping to pick up - NGS 5'6" plate-back bogies, Peco 10ft wheelbase steel chassis and Dapol or Parkside 12ft wagon chassis - but I couldn't find any on sale. I might just have been unlucky (although one stand did comment that I wasn't the first to ask for that) and not come across them but I'll now have to mail order and that is potentially where the future lies, which could be a problem for future exhibitions.

 

Nonetheless, I did enjoy my day at TINGS and there were plenty of layouts to see (I've posted some pics of some above) as well as traders stands to keep one occupied and entertained. Traders like BHE, Osborns, Plus Daughters and N Brass Loco are very welcome with their range of bits and kits. And judging by the scrum around the second-hand stall there were plenty looking for bargains.

Avoided TINGS this year, 3 hours of mask wearing is not conducive to enjoying myself.

Anything kit based with wheels/underframe  has a high probably of having limited or no supply - its not a recent issue and not something which was likely to be fixed by it being TINGS. As an exhibition it is always been a bit up and down; 2018 was a bit variable but 2019 was more consistent. As for the returns/seconds, I know may who can only afford locos at these prices. 

On 05/09/2021 at 00:43, Pacific231G said:

 Even more obvious, there was a line in the same programme saying that, before the Liverpool and Manchester railway was built, they'd built a ship canal between the two cities, which is a bit like talking about mid nineteenth-century tea clippers using the Panama Canal.

No they said that traffic was carried by canal - Bridgewater, St Helens etc canals had been operating to Runcorn since the 1760/70s. There was no mention of 'ship canal'

On 04/09/2021 at 11:35, Scott B said:

 

Ahh, yes. Thanks and apologies to Bomag.

Likewise I am not aware of any 105s in White/Blue.

I seem to recall that the white & blue livery had something to do with Metropolitan PTE's back in the day ?

Maybe that is why Anglia escaped the livery as I doubt there were many PTE's out that way such as WMPTE, SYPTE, GMPTE etc although I think the Cambridge-Royston shuttles had white & blue examples of the 101s.

White and Blue was not related to PTEs, but being refurbished during the program from 1976-onwards. All PTEs paid for stock in their area to be refurbished but DMUs on non-PTE services were also refurbished. A couple of 105 power twins were refurbished in late 1980 (50761/50777/50794/50804) - as a test but apparently the cost was excessive - the white / blue livery had been superseded by then.

1 hour ago, MyRule1 said:

In the September ModelRail Chris Leigh writes "[that Crumlin Viaduct] was closed by Beeching" and in the same issue an article about a model of Bournemouth West starts "Beeching may have erased some of our railways".

 

Perhaps it is time to stop using this shorthand for a process that started well before Beeching was British Railways Chairman and continued well after he left.  The truth is that Beeching did not close any passenger railways.  Politicians of all parties that were in power in the 1960's, 70's etc.. closed passenger railways.  Beeching gave his name to the report that suggested cuts and significant investment. Yes the Beeching reforms of the freight network did mean some freight only lines closed but in the case of passenger lines there was a procedure that was followed and signed off by the Minister at the time.

 

Yes - "Beeching" is convenient shorthand for this process but surely "Minster of Transport cuts" would be better?

Beeching was responsible for the specification of the report which was used to justify the majority of closures. He is fully accountable for this.  He, and to a degree the board, would have known the lack of statistical reliability of the data, with it being collected with a bias to provide the assumed outcome. The result was that the contribution of secondary lines to traffic on the wider network was underestimated; closing the lines resulted in lost traffic which the report assumed would be retained. It also completely ignored the network reliability impact of closures - e.g. the benefit of having a second route to Plymouth when a HGV gets wedged under a bridge.

The majority of singles lines branch lines that closed, would still have closed - the number of secondary routes closed, particularly double track ones, would been reduced if technology had been used to reduce manpower costs. 

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

In my very fallible memory, many east anglian DMUs avoided this livery entirely. All-over blue survived rather late, there was a brief period of blue/grey but NSE appeared quite early.  

The early 1980's Anglia stock was mostly Class 105 with a few odd balls mixed in. Very few 105s were refurbished and all them were LMR allocated. The late 1980's Class 101 were drafted in after B/G became the norm. CA allocated 101s started to get NSE livery in 1987 

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

My brother has just got in touch and told me I've got to go there this weekend. No idea what day though.  

 

Some of his work colleagues had planned a trip to travel on FS, but about three have pulled out so they were spare. Hopeful we'll get the WC, 56XX or a diesel as the other loco. But we'll have a day out anyway and spend some money!

 

 

Good to see Nipper coming along nicely. The LNWR 18" replica for those wondering what it is.

 

 

 

Jason

I hope its better than Saturday - expected the quoted Wells and the Class 24; got a DMU first up 'due to a wedding'.  Switched to Wells and it was fine with a tea and pie and then tea and cake at the Haywood cafe. 

4 hours ago, Flood said:

It is correct. They were originally fitted with Frequency Division Multiplex and if you want to have an in-depth discussion with Glenn Daniel who worked on the 47/7s at Haymarket until 1987 and then at Craigentinny until 1991 I'm sure he can give you the full details.

 

From page 2 of this same thread:

 

This is consistent with what I was told. FDM provided less bandwidth than what was adopted for TDM due to the need to ensure signals were in-sync. Not my area but it made sense at the time. Apparently having the loco pushing reduced peak track loads; particularly when coupled with buckeyes (Class 90&91).

2 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

Personally I doubt this, 47s had not such equipment and the 86s definitely didn't - the instructions on Virgin Trains was to isolate the DW9 (I think that's the right term) valve for the electric brake unit when the push-pull sets were being hauled because 86s and 87s did not have the equipment needed to send electric brake signals back to the DVT/DBSO. 

 

 

I did say when the DBSO was leading. The discussion I had was with one of our signalling engineers and a p/w maintenance wonk (Colchester I think) looking at if there was any impact on maintenance and fixing the damage being done by the 86/2 (trying to straighten the curves).  The problems was that the spec for the refurbished DBSOs was still not set at that point. As described to me it was supposed to be a legacy issue of Polmont to speed up brake performance when pushing. 

On 28/08/2021 at 05:03, 47475 said:

 

Introducing a 'staple' like the MK2B/C would be quite something. A more realistic approach than Farish in terms of availability/frequency of release of their MK1/MK2A TSOs that a lot of people need and can't get hold of would be welcome though. Whilst blue/grey would be the real 'staple', other liveries that spring to mind for my era would be InterCity (original lettering), INTERCITY (swallow), INTERCITY charter (white roof), NSE and Regional Railways - including the odd one or two that were painted to the InterCity livery template and always stood out in a regular RR rake.

Intercity - ICE or ICS was a rarity on b/c stock 8 BFKs and 2 BSO, Plenty of variations of NSE, and Provincial. Not forgetting CIE, NIR and Israel. 

The latest info I saw was that they were prohibited from running the whole line due to a dodgy bridge and P/W issues; I am not certain if they have any usable locos as well. Also the on going tussle between the the three groups (railway, bus, model engineers) is still ongoing. Happy to be corrected but there seems to be a consistent message.

7 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

Upthread someone mentioned 47/7s were added to the HST differentials, at least I think that's what they were saying.

 

Personally I'm not sure about that because as Flood says the braking capability even on a Mk3 set is much poorer than an HST for two reasons - one the 47 is very underbraked for its weight compared to an HST power car, secondly an HST has an electric brake system (E70) which applies the brakes from both ends of the train.

 

The differentials were certainly brought in specifically for the HSTs, being introduced originally on the Edinburgh-Aberdeen line in time for the May 1982 timetable change. They allowed a 15 min cut in the fastest HST timings Edinburgh-Aberdeen. At the same time 12 miles of the ECML east from Edinburgh were upgraded including the first 100+ sections on the Scottish part of the ECML. These improvements saved 2 mins Edinburgh-Newcastle.

 

There's a detailed article on both the Scottish HST differentials and the ECML improvement works in Modern Railways November 1981.

 

 

From a discussion just before they were sent to Crown Point I was told that the DBSO had a brake actuator and that when leading the brake would be applied at both ends. I left RCEA before they were put in service so can't confirm.

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

  BR considered their Britannia, Clan, and standard 5MT locos to be mixed traffic in purpose, and all had 6’2” driving wheels.  So did ‘Duke of Gloucester, but that was an 8P, as it was a replacement for the written off ‘Princess Anne’, but this must mean that either the small driving wheels or the 8P classification (or both) are anomalous.   Could the loco have been a unique 8MT?

DOG was less powerful than LNER Peppercorn A2 by about 1k lbf and the A2 was 8P7F so DOG would not have been 8MT (however, the power thresholds did change)

20 hours ago, SamThomas said:

Is it possible that the newer regulations are not retrospective ?

Except for a limited number of signs there is a saving which means anything lawful when the new regs come into force stays prescribed until moved, or removed.

10 hours ago, 125_driver said:

Excellent site very useful.

It does seem that by 1992 it was all 7 coach sets but there appear to be a couple of 8 coach sets in 1991 I think? Could anyone confirm if 8 would be typical at this time?

The bigger 10 car sets which would split at Carstairs seem to finish in 1990 from what I can tell on 1s76.

1S76 only covers SE XC services, the longer SW sets carried on, in part, until the whole timetable was recast with the extra HST sets

8 hours ago, keefer said:

Haven't had time for a proper look but does anyone know which services used the Mk2d RMBT?

I've seen pics at Edinburgh of one in IC livery, would this have been a XC service via Carstairs & WCML?

When converted (1986) the RMBT were used on Kent and other SE XC services. However, by 1988 they were allocated to WCML services and 1991 GWR services