Bomag

Oh good, an announcement about an announcement.

If you are doing a LNER 0-6-2 then the N7 was used more widely as well as being from God's own Electric Railway

On 22/07/2021 at 11:08, P.C.M said:

Looking for information on the MK2 s that were used in the Edinburgh - Glasgow push pull sets that were air braked and fitted with disc brakes.

 

I am planning on doing one that ended up in Trans-Pennine livery so any pic would be great.

 

Cheers Peter.

Of the 15 ab Mk2z TSO which were allocated to Transpennine services at NL, YC or HT only 5147, 5160 and 5192 seem to have received Provincial livery

On 25/07/2021 at 11:43, Derekl said:

You asked about BR Mk1 coach allocation to the WR. The first Mk 1s to be allocated to the WR were completed in December 1951 (SKs) and in June 1952 (FK). The first CKs allocated to the WR were completed in January 1952. First BSKs so allocated were completed in May 1952.

 

Information gleaned from Keith Parkin's book. I presume at those dates they would have been crimson and cream.

 

So really it has to be 1952, but it is your layout.......

The WR had two full sets of Mk1s from May 51 for the Festival of Britain - The Merchant Venturer got as far as Weston SM on a daily basis. Loose Mk1s would have been late 1951 as you say.

Similar update in new NGS journal.

On 23/07/2021 at 20:47, Market65 said:

Hi, it was just Leeds by the date of that photo’. Leeds Central had been closed down for a number of years by then. It had closed down in 1967 when all services were transferred to what was Leeds City station. I hope this is of some help.

 

Rob.

The photo is from Platform 7 looking at the DMU in Platform 5 at Leeds City. The farthest two platforms and the parcels vans were in the old Leeds Wellington station and still refereed to as such in some P/W documents in the late 80's

20 hours ago, retbsignalman said:

Hi,

 

I read somewhere that when the Eurostar test train with 73205 + 83301 and the TC set ran on the South Eastern Division into Kent it had an RTC allocated class 47 attached. Does anyone know why this was, and why it couldn't just run 47-less like it could on the SWD please?

 

Thanks in advance 

 

Graeme 

I think at the time the explanation was that there was sufficient running over non-electrified lines/sidings to require something with more the 600hp.

1 hour ago, grahame said:

 

 

 

AFAIA Hattons no longer stock any Bachmann products, both N (Farish) and OO (Mainline) which many thought would possibly be a tricky ask for them, but it doesn't appear to have been. 

 

People have been forecasting market readjustments in the model railway industry for many years, but it hasn't come. It still exists and plods on. Generally things have gradually evolved to face changing times and challenges rather than there being sudden seismic shifts and massive dynamic changes.

 

 

 

I think that fezza's point was that as Hattons don't stock Farish/Bachmann they are not impacted by kader's supply/price model.

I would call the rise of Revolution etc a significant market readjustment, ditto the potential for more Kato. OK its not overnight but the %age of my total spend which is spent on Farish products has halved over the last four years.  

15 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

Its Dapol.  There will be a queue of people on RMWeb lining up to rubbish it even if everything is perfection....

 

Les

If they ever do reach that level we will have to see. Most of the problems seem to be shoddy liveries and numbering on another wise good model. This does not apply to the 142 where the model is iffy but with a nice paint job.

Presumably some shop has bagged 59003 in GBRF. Is it going the same way as GBRF 50's

If that's on a Salisbury train then I saw both 50+TC and 33/0+TC in normal use as loco hauled stock.

Adam

I have obtained some second hand unused Electra overlays e.g. Manchester Pullman in ICE. Is it easy to tell which type they are and which method to use to fix older overlays?

Also, although you have done some of them in packs (Royal train+Northern Belle) do you do any of RF (3xx), RKB (15xx), RBK or RB (both in 16xx/17xx) in Blue Gray or intercity, the later RB/RKB only?  In the drop down list there is a RK (800xx), but includes liveries which are suitable only for other type of Kitchen car.   

I was not aware foxhunter did a model of the 2-10-0 only the 2-8-0. However it's not a difficult job to make it fit.

I have a Fleischmann class 50 for mine and it a good powerful runner if as long as the loco driving wheel are free ruining - it does need the occasional clean as well as a light oil in between. 

2 hours ago, keefer said:

Not just the rubbing plate but buckeye coupler and retractable buffers - i.e. as on a passenger coach. (The one in the pic is set up for coupling to the loco, with buckeye dropped and buffers extended)

As they were dedicated Motorail GUVs, it made sense as it was easier when making up the train - just couple them up like everything else, no faffing about with their screw couplings.

Presumably made the whole train a bit more stable and less prone to snatching, particularly at 90+ mph (these GUVs had CW or B5 bogies)

 

While motorail GUVs which ended up in the 96xxx range got CW/B5 bogies all still had BR2 bogies (as in the photo) while in the 86xxx series. Some LMR ones got rebogied from 1985 while still in the 93xx range. Presumably the ER ones weren't done as 47/4s had difficulty getting trains up to 90 mph never mind 95mph except when going down stoke bank.

I believe that using buckeye couplings etc  made it easier to driver cars between vehicles.

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

" a limited number of captive rakes"?

There were hundreds of long wide coaches, they could generally go anywhere that was originally built to broad or mixed gauge, which was a greater sphere of use than the Kings ever had.

However many of the originally standard gauge lines, often built by individual companies before absorbtion into the GWR couldn't take them.

The GWR built these coaches long after the abolition of the broad gauge, so why? Because their extra size could be usefully applied in the places they would fit.

 

As has been mentioned the LMS Pacifics were similarly restricted due to weight and size, so why build them?

The Princesses were probably the worst with an overlong wheelbase, due to Stanier re-using the main dimensions from the King Class, married to a bigger (longer) boiler and a trailing truck.*

The Coronation is an altogether neater arrangement (and shows you can get 40000lb TE with standard size wheels ( 6' 8½")

 

*EDIT The GWR was hampered by rigidly sticking to the traditional cylinder position which led to the King's infamous front bogie

The same size cylinders, wheels and wheelbase on the Princess, but with slightly altered cylinder positions allowed Stanier to use a normal front bogie.

 

Sorry, you said that 73'x9'7" had limited usage but now say they could be used over all the old broad gauge lines - which is it? I know nothing about GW coaches so have only what you imply. It sounds like saying that the LNER should not have built 61' stock / Silver Jubilee / Coronation stock as they were a bit of an issue on sections of the GEML.

As for the LMS Princess, they needed a quick fix for the WCML - instead of doing a 4 cylinder version of an A3 you got a Pacific King - it looks looks contrived. They fixed it with the Duchess which could AFAIK go over the ex LNWR and CR mainlines. Given the waning influence of Derby there was never a chance of normal usage on the MML, although they seem to work OK on the S&C in preservation.

11 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

A bit like asking why did the LMS built Duchesses or the LNER A4s as they were only used on a few routes.

 

They were built for specific duties and by the time they were withdrawn they were nearly life expired anyway. The life span of a top link loco was estimated at about 40 years. Notice that the earlier A3s went at the same time. Whereas some of the others were expected to last for a few more years.

 

That's why BR had planned for a new 8P 4-6-2 in the 1950s. They knew they needed replacing. Dieselisation wasn't guaranteed at that point.

 

Even the GWR was working on a replacement before Nationalisation, the much mentioned Hawksworth Pacific.

 

 

Jason

I don't think it is the same, A4s may have been concentrated on ECML services but could run over much larger parts of the network. They easily ran on the Kelso branch on the 1948 diversions and ex LNER locos were staple power on the ex LMS line to Aberdeen in the mid 60's. I am not aware if Duchesses were limited due to loading gauge; from the number of diverse lines they have been on in preservation probably not.

Given the later LNER split between 6'8" A1/A3/A4 and 6'2" A2s would the GWR have been better to have gone for a more powerful, but physically smaller, 6'2" 4 cylinder 4-6-0 for wider use, which would have been better going up the hills or seven tunnel approaches. Other than Acton to Bristol Parkway did locos need 90mph+ capability?

1 minute ago, melmerby said:

When they were introduced they were designed for a limited number of services and they didn't wander around.

Mainly Paddington - Wolverhampton & Paddington - Plymouth.

As a result they were initially (IIRC) only at OOC, Stafford Road & Laira

 

You could say the same with the coaches.

Why build 73' x 9' 7' coaches that couldn't be used on many of the company's routes and also couldn't be used off system at all?

There is a difference between not being able to cross Saltash Bridge to only being able to access platforms from one end. I have no idea about the coaches either, I assume they were used on fixed diagrams - there is a difference between a limited number of captive rakes of coach than a fleet of 30 locos

8 hours ago, The Johnster said:

That makes sense.  Kings were banned west of Cardif on the Barry route as well, but a slow move when traffic was light is a lot easier to arrange on the Barry than the busy SWML.  IIRC the actual restriction was platforms 1 and 3 at Cardiff General station as well as the up and down mains (middle roads).  They could not run in to platform 1 from the Swansea end or depart from 2 at the Newport end, and only use 3 in the down direction.  They could haul stock to the carriage sidings from 3, and of course run to Canton shed reception roads, but could not haul stock from the carriage sidings to platform 1, and this was done by the up pilot for trains originating at Cardiff.  The King waited on the loco spur off no.1 goods, visible from Saunders Road.

One wonders why the GW designed a loco class with so many restrictions, its not as though their 6fts weren't big enough.

4 hours ago, br2975 said:

It appears they were purchased by a Briton Ferry or Swansea scrap yard; but someone realised they were banned west of Cardiff on the South Wales main line.

.

They were resold to Woodham Bros. and allowed to be moved, slowly, as far as Barry instead..

.

I've no doubt some contributors will have differing versions.

I think that it comes down to why they were banned west of Cardiff. If it was loading gauge then they are not going anywhere. If it's weight then having a loco with no coal or water makes it a lot lighter (by several tonnes) and make it easier to move. This was the benefit of the BR RA system in that it is 'fairly' easy to reverse calculate a pseudo RA number for something not in a normal condition. I have no idea if you could do that for the WR colour system.

One of our roads managed to get a chunk gouged out of it by a GW tank loco, it was sat on a load loader full of water instead of empty - first dip curve it overloaded the trailer embedded itself into the tarmac.

1 hour ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

If you decide to visit our shop, please let me know. We will dim the lights in case you are dazzled and fall over the Humbrol stand.

 

Stay Safe and Well 

You seem to be mistaking defuse illumination for veiling luminance while in search of wit. Getting back to exhibitions if managers are looking to keep halls cool  and pleasant, decent low power layout lighting which provides good, even, illumination may be less of an issue than for the radiator like spots which provide a lot of glare, a lot heat and not much clarity.   

1 hour ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

So, our shop is safe today, 6th July, but by the 19th July, it will become unsafe?

 

Well I wouldn't visit your shop at present, just as I haven't been inside a supermarket in England since July. Mitigation measures prescribed in legislation do warp the issue so you cannot identify high risk locations from the safety measures in place. From the 19th this will go and you should be able to identify high risk locations by the measures they need to apply to be safe. This does assume that the measures are identified as part of a competent risk assessment. One local shop to me has apparently removed all the clear plastic protection for workers but will retain the requirement for face masks even though the plastic is an Isolation measure which is more effective and more reliable. Its also like one of our contactors who though that a couple of beacons on his works vehicles was not enough so he put 24 on only to be run over while standing next to it as the driver of the offending vehcile could not see him due to the glare from his 24 beacons. Throughout the last 100 years the most obvious measure, which is nearly always the least reliable, has been the one seen by the public (and workers) as being the the most vital. 

1 hour ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

A decision we will have to make in the not too distant future. It’s the legalities that scare us. I rather think we will be making the current sign even larger. We have earned a reputation as being a very covid safe environment and customers have complimented us on working so hard to make it so.

 

It’s the Covidiots that bother us and our customers. 

The problem you have is that H&S law is based a the hierarchy of measures (ERIC) and face masks are very definitely a Control measures (they don't even count as PPE unless they meet the medical performance standard). By continuing to require them for customers you are saying that your shop is otherwise unsafe for them. Given that social distancing (an Isolation measure) is about a order of magnitude more effective, the best option is to limit the number of people in the shop and require social distancing between groups. As long as you allow carers and family units to stay together then you have almost no issues with either H&SWA 1974 or EA 2010, well much less than insisting on face masks.

15 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

 

Not quite true.

Double mask wearing (as in both parties wear a mask) by the infected and the potential victim reduces the chances of infection to below 5%.

This is marginally beaten by the Pfizer vaccine and just beats the AZ vaccine.

So mask wearing is much more than just a badge.

 

However - and I have held off commentating on this until now - I am appalled by the British attitude to mask wearing. 

 

In France entry to any public building, visit to the doctor or nurse, the vet, any shop etc.  indeed in some cities and departements (counties) anywhere in the outdoor public area will be met with a sign  "masque obligatiore" (You must wear a mask).  No lanyards, no doctors exemptions, no letters from mum - Johnny should be excused mask wearing today - no mask = no entry.

I think it comes from the British principle that everything is acceptable unless banned whereas the French system is effectively the other way round (thanks Napoleon). Given the various infection rates the sheeple in France clinging to their face masks outside (even with social distancing!) made no difference. Then again the French never seemed to cotton on that the transmission rate for a social distancing at 2m was much less than 1m (and a smidgen less than 1m+masks). So I was appalled with the French attitude to social distancing (and no love and huggies! or crammed street cafes) .

5 hours ago, Market Street Warrington said:

Is there any rumours yet of a tpe livery from Kato?  when do they usually publish their product line for forthcoming year? Thanks 

They need to sell the several thousand GW and LNER versions first. As mentioned above the second batch of Eurostars was 10 years after the first, so don't hold your breath. I would not be surprised if the next batch were 2023/2024.

In the late 1980's there were multiple changes leading to 5TCs and 5 TCTs while the 442s were being bulit. However, for day to day services to Salisbury and loco hauled to Weymouth it was two units couples together. The whole point was to avoid remarshaling rakes. 

1 hour ago, Legend said:

I think Phil precisely captures the point . Australia is saying that with this new variant that it could be proximity 5-10 seconds or passing through an air plume expelled by someone else . Until we know this for sure we can't really say its safe to congregate in large groups . So I'm afraid we need a lot more definitive science

The problem is that there is nothing definitive, there is only a probability curve.  I am not an expert on what is happening in Aus but from the oc-health updates I have access to is that while the 'island fortress' has worked up to now the low number of cases needed to justify a full lock down means that they have limit knowledge / experience coupled with almost no resistance to any new strain, due to no infections or limited vaccines rollout, makes it much harder to comprehend the impact with what they letting through now. This rather reflects some of the comments about new variants,  if you are vaccinated the best thing to do for many virus (and COVID is likely to in this group) is not to barricade the hatches but to have a steady, limited exposure to new strains to build up a wider range of protection. Virus mutate incrementally (but through many branches), if you encounter a first generation mutation any vaccine will likely be mostly effective. If you encounter a firth generation mutation, without encountering any of gen 1 to 4 then any vaccine, or natural immunity, will be much less effective at fighting it.   

It has always been the case that if somebody infected sneezes near you there is much greater chance of any virus (or if you are Scottish, shouting in a London pub). The wider issue is that that if an asymptomatic carrier is breathing in and out normally, how long does it take to eject enough virus to be effective and infective somebody. Alpha/kent was something like 10 min,  Delta/india is more like 5-10 min. In terms of a/c systems some of them may need to have their throughflow rates increased to replace all air within 5 mins; one of our older office a/c systems is on full blast to get replacement times down to meet current guidance. The cost to the landlord is significant, he is hoping that guidance from 19th July means he can turn it down. For exhibitions it may help if somebody can provide advice on how to get a flow of air through a sports hall etc, it's not the case of opening all doors but working with any wind to go from a high pressure to a low pressure, sunny to shielded.