Tricky-CRS

It is my understanding that the CADs were checked by some experts who should no the subject very well.

I will admit that I have been fervent in my comments about the curve, but if I have been rude I apologise, I say this as some of the later posters are getting out of hand. Other items pointed out I have less of a view, photographs can be cruel and it may be limits in model engineering, but some may be mistakes from Dapol.

I think on balance it is light years ahead of the Farish version so I am happy with the 3 I have on order. It will be interesting to see how the production models turn up as the painted samples did have issues in production.

Its interesting that Dapols most accurate and successful models such as the class 68, western etc. all had much work done on them by Dapol Dave before he moved to pastures new, contributing and advising with many other successful projects such as pendolinos, LLCs class 15 as well other UK and Irish prototypes in additoon yo his own award winning products.

Dapol declaired they had scrapped all previous works (Dave's) on the class 142, class 50, class 59 etc. And restarted notably not restarting the class 68. So Are we only now seeing the results of the new design teams standards?

Dave had no input on the class 68 it was announced after he left and scanned by the current Dapol team.

The best date is to coincide with the OO poll so you share advertising / promotion, manufacturers are planning well in advance so most want be reacting to the results of a particular years poll.

Respectfully Richard, I disagree. 

 

The more I look at the front of the Dapol EPs the more I see the shape is wrong. I couldn't quite find a photo of the real thing at the same angle as a photo I took at TINGs, but even something close still highlights that the curve is very evident when a direct comparison is made.

 

Class50.jpg

 

Anyway, My Railtec NSE decals arrived yesterday in anticipation of a repaint into the revised scheme as worn by Lion at the MHR. I may have to see what can be done about the nose & headcode box at the same time as respraying it or decide if I can just live with it as is. 

 

Tom.  

Hi Tom

Sorry but the model is curved or at least rises in the centre and my maths are correct. Your photo is of a black EP looking down on to the curve. Black is a terrible colour to photograph, to show shapes and detail in as it tends to blend together and hides shadows. Looking up or down at shallow curves like that, they tend to appear flat in images. 

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Although disappointed about the poll I fully support the teams decision, I also get why RMweb may be reticent to support or host it. N gauge sector can be very polarized, vocal and self orientated, possibly more so than OO.

The fact that the team feel they put a lot of effort in for no return, it may be that it would be better off on another platform. That may well be impractical I don't know but certainly is not achievable in the short term.

My knowledge may not be good enough, but I could certainly look at helping with some parts of the lists.

One thing is clear is we need to (like it or not) respect the decision of the poll team and look for a solution for next year.

That curve on the real loco only rises a relatively small amount, a couple of inches which 50mm is 0.33mm at 1/148 on the model. That is very hard to see and certainly does not show up on photo's taken at odd angles through a glass or perspex display case. I am not sure how well 1mm would show up and that is near 6inches. When I kneeled down and looked at the face it was not flat IMHO. We must remember that some details will not always so up correctly at this scale and may need to be over scaled to show up. Some may complain if some detail was made to big on purpose just to make it look more to scale.

Come on the guy is doing people a favour and you are chucking your toys out of the pram due to it not featuring your minority scale. Yes 20% really is a minority.

 

 

He's already explained that his time is a premium for personal reasons.

 

 

Now grow up and stop acting like children.

 

 

 

Jason

I was typing my rather polite reply while this rude one was being spat out. Grow up yourself we are all allowed opinions.

I fully understand the reasons behind this decision so would suggest that the title be changed to OO wishlist poll or whatever. As an N gauge modeler who has always voted in previous years I am disappointed but except the decision.

It was announced in the last batch and explained that it got tooled before the scale error was spotted. Instead of scraping the tool and starting again OD decided to carry on and aim it at the collectors market.

Did these ever, even once run through to Penzance / St Ives or along the Hereford and Worcester line?

looking forward to this as always, I'll be there helping to run the event.

Were these used on the cement trains in West Cornwall, I suspect not as I have not found any pictures yet?

Hmm,

 

If black is an issue, maybe as a lessons learned, perhaps having some water soluable white paint might be worth arranging, with the owning group ?

 

(Certainly many groups adopt water soluable weathering for galas etc), indeed one black five was covered in Wallpaper once.

 

Indeed it might not even be dry by end of day to just hosepipe it off after scanning.

Laser scanner would not like it wet either, black gloss and in fact dark gloss colours are real issue for lasers. Oddly so is marble as the laser penetrates the surface to varying depths. Having scan a multitude of items I have come across quite a few things lasers don't like, mirrors, tinted windows, dark gloss paint, water or wet surfaces, oil or grease and marble, to name a few.

That would be helpful, thanks. I have just registered for Dapol Digest but am awaiting approval before I can post anything. It’s not a big issue, clearly, and whilst they are not going to pick a different number at this late stage, at least if they leave the NSE flash off the final model, it will be accurate for most of the time that the loco ran in this livery with Leviathan nameplates.

I have just posted making the argument to remove NSE flash, I hope you don't mind I quoted you and copied and pasted as I prefer to give credit where due.

I’ve seen this and other similar pictures where the caption says “Leviathan” but where the nameplate is definitely “Centurion” and also with the latter name there is a crest above the nameplate which “Leviathan” didn’t have. It seems a strange choice by Dapol to pick the only 50 to carry two different names with the same colour scheme as that immediately restricts the timescale available. As I said, I doesn’t bother me at all as none of the ones I’ve ordered will stay as 50040 but I will mention it to Dapol.

On Dapol Digest they have been asked about running numbers / names and have said they decided to stick with the originally announced options. So unfortunately this is a historic issue, that for various reasons has continued. The next batch will hopefully be more logical, I will post your query on the Dapol Digest, and see if they have proof.

Quick Google search found a Flickr pic quoting "Class 50 50040 'Leviathan' stands round the turntable at Old Oak Common Depot on the 16th April 1988." Showing NSE flash as per at work, now you can not read the nameplate, so I will not pass judgement, but I know Dapol have put a lot of effort in to this artwork. 

Indeed it isn't all skullduggery but I'm left with a very distinct impression that in some instances it is simply seen as a way of avoiding financial commitment through somebody investing their own money in their business plan or proposition for a particular model rather than the Revolution trains approach.  Undoubtedly the 'Lococraft' scheme sounds more than a little dodgy and there is also the recent failure of the DJM Class 74 where it appears that little tangible has happened despite the commitment of money to the project plus somebody other than DJM is being left with the potentially considerable cost of refunding previously committed funds. 

 

One thing putting committed funds into a ring fenced account, soemthing differeent having to deal with the cost of putting that money in there and getting it back out in the event of a scheme coming to nought - back to my point about the business plan and financial management of such a scheme.

You are also missing the point that the individual that wants to make said loco or wagon may not actually have the money, so turns to crowdfunding to raise funds. It is practically impossible to get a business loan from a high street bank, I know I tried. I successfully ran the first funded N gauge Kickstarter for wagon kits, my first port of call was the bank, then peer to peer, but my plans were to small or risky for these guys. My Mermaids in RTR on Kickstarter failed after DJM announced his, or I would have carried on down that route.

It is not a simple case of not having the confidence or being skullduggery it is about not being rich and having loads of cash, but having some ambition.

Delivery updated on Dapol digest as being Feb/March 2019, so I am holding off joining for another couple of months.

My class 68005 arrived from Kernow MRC mid week and I have test run it today, I am very pleased and impressed with this model. Yes 1 handrail was misaligned but otherwise all seems to be excellent, it runs very quiet and very slow. I have taken the body off and the bogies are correctly assembled and lights seem to be correct. I have rather forcible removed the  cove on the roof to access the switches, real shame this is glued down and so difficult to do, otherwise it would be a great idea. Overall a great model, real pleased with my purchase and definitely a rule 1.

TomE interesting review of the unreleased class 142, having seen the preproduction models in the display cases I disagree with you. I also know a lot of work has gone into these, there certainly aren't misshappen lumps of plastic. Yes the early CADs had errors but Dapol have done a lot of work on them since then, lets wait for their release shall we.

Class 68 does look good.

How about the livery in the pictures above?

Good luck very interesting idea

 

Heljan? They know about as much about Moguls as Oxford do about Dean Goods.

No, another not yet mentioned, already planning a mogul in another scale and works in the retail commission / crowdfund market.

But equally how likely is it that an announced model will be on the shelves by March 2019?

 

I've not looked at the mogul in details so can't comment but if the prairie CAD represents something like about 9 months of work to get it to the stage where just a few minor changes will be needed before pressing the buttons to start tooling then we're either going to get a not very good large prairie or the CAD has been unveiled with much work left to do, and not just a few simple mods and minor adjustments.  Just read what Miss Prism has posted on Dapol Digest and the size of the task to get the prairie right becomes apparent; in fact it might be quicker to start again above footplate level rand throw away a few thousand £s worth of work?

 

So are we looking at a couple of 'place grabbers' which might have been timed to beat January announcements or are we seriously looking at what, on usual timescales, are meant to be near final CADs which would shortly be going to tooling in order to give time for EPs, corrections, then production prototypes and any further corrections,  and finally livery samples in order to really get them into the shops by March 2019?  That's an awful lot to squeeze into what amounts to little over a 12 month timescale before one starts allowing for Chinese holiday periods and shipping dates if these aren't as near the final CADs as we're going to get.

Dapol have also replied stating that some of the points raised are already being worked on and that new (final?) CADs are due soon. The assumption that they know nothing is wrong, they are an intelligent group with a lot of experience Richard Webster particularly. Also these early CADs from Dapol in the past have contained wrong parts as they are put together to show everything that can be required for the class of locomotive. The final CADs will hopefully be more specific and we will have several for each model, at which point target practice can commence. 

They is one other manufacturer out there who is working on a Mogul, that has suggested more announcements / retail tie ins with in a few weeks of Warley, that may have been or is looking to advance their Mogul from being only in one scale too two. I am surprised that they have not been mentioned by now.

Fascinating read, thank you very much, I know of the bridge in Monmouth and now know its history.