Jon Fitness' average 7mm signals workbench.

[micknich2003]

Dear John, some nice models.

A question, were did you get the carpet shown in several of the photo's from? Looks very much like the one once in our local pub, and after being aquired by the missus now laid in our back bedroom. Mick.

[Jon Fitness]

£20 from Wrexham market 10 years ago! Not from a pub but it has had a drop or 2 of beer spilt on it in that time....
JF

Edited June 2, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Jon Fitness]

Now that the wiring is in and the groove filled with Squadron green putty, it's time for the lamps. Referring to pictures in books the standard size arms have a round lamp case, but smaller arms have a small square case with no visible vent on the top. These were prepared with LEDs and glued in place. The lamps were also drilled 0.7mm and had small "pins" of N/S wire soldered in that pushed into pre drilled holes in the post for extra strength.



How to operate that little shunt signal? I did toy with the ideas of small wheels used like bell cranks as one or two people use but that (and I'm not ashamed to admit it it!) was beyond me!! I chose a small rocker arm fixed between the trimmers as being a little more substantial and easier for me to engineer.
The pictures probably show better than I can describe...


Once this was assembled I added the lampmans staging from 1mm ply strips



The addition of ladders and the spandrel bracket took the construction to this stage ....


so I took it to the layout and dug a hole in the platform where it is going to go.


More soon.
JF

Edited June 2, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Jon Fitness]

Once I knew it fitted and looked reasonably OK I decided the next job was to provide for the servos.
As the post extends below the base I fitted a small brass sub-base to mount the servos on and terminated the post wiring on a small piece of copperclad.





The final construction job is the lamp-mans safety rail. L&YR used flat bar for handrails so these were bent up from a strip of 1/32 x 1/64. The rear one was fitted to 2 horizontal pieces of wire fastened to the post but the front one was left until after the painting and final re-assembly. I have also replicated bolt heads on the back of the post by drilling 0.6mm holes and glueing in short lengths of wire at the rear of where fittings bolt through.
Painting time.

The lamp cases and the end of the handrail wires were masked off and about four coats of Halfords white primer sprayed on, built up over a day or so. Plenty of paint was applied as the cheap wood of the firework sticks soaked up the first 2 coats!
The arms were sprayed with the white primer, masked off and sprayed Peugeot Cherry Red (mainly as I had run out of Audi Laser Red....) and seemed to look OK (opinions welcome!) The spectacles were then glazed with MSE's coloured sheet secured with thickish superglue.



Some of the "blackwork" was then painted to allow assembly and testing of the linkages and servos. Once this was done and I knew it worked, the backblinders were soldered on to the rear of the spindles, the handrail fitted at the front and the painting completed.



It now looks disgustingly clean and fresh and will (as soon as the paintwork hardens) get a coat of lovely filthy weathering applied before it gets fitted and connected up.




More soon
JF

Edited June 2, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Jon Fitness]

Thats better; can't beat a bit of weathering to show up the faults detail...

All finished and ready to fit now.

 

 

Many thanks for all your "likes" ... Now it's back to those GW signals for a bit. Gantry next I think .............

JF

[SimonME46]

Your work is brilliant John.

 

With the route indicator box, is that divided into 4 segments with an led in each?

And please excuse my ignorance, I note some of your spectacle plates are red rather than black, and wondered what the background is to this?

[Jon Fitness]

Cheers Simon!

You're right about the route indicator box. A bit "cheaty" I suppose but it works for me.

Spec plates.....On the upper quadrant arms, the later pressed metal spec plates were painted across the lens area with a continuation of the blade colour. This faded and weathered much quicker than the blade which is enamelled so when they were new they were coloured and as they aged they lost the colour or just got dirty. the Ex L&YR arms were always painted with the full colour all the way along right until the end of their use on BR.

ATB

Jon F.

[SimonME46]

Excellent, thanks John. Looks like I'll have a bit of both on Bradford...

[N15class]

May I ask what servo's it is that you use.

[Jon Fitness]

May I ask what servo's it is that you use.

 

I generally use Tower Pro SG90. I buy them in bulk from Servo Shop. Try the link below.

http://www.servoshop...G90G&area=Servo

Cheers

JF

Edited March 2, 2012 by Jon Fitness

[Jon Fitness]

GW Gantry
Now that the L&Y signal is planted working and lit (had to change both LEDs, very rare) I've started on the GW gantry.
It looks a little spindly but is only about a scale 6" short of the real thing in depth. Its main structure is based very loosely on one that was at Newton Abbot as pictured in Kevin Robertson's book on WR signals.
The main cross beam uses 3 of MSE's GW bracket kits and has had a few rivets and a lower flange added along its length.
The main stems should be "H" section girders but I have made up some false girders using box section brass and flat strip so I can run wires etc down the stems.
It will eventually have 4 dolls on it with a total of 5 arms. Not many compared to Mikemegs epic structures but enough for an average signal-builder!
This is the progress so far.

The 3 etches joined.




Formed, flange added and soldered up.



A made up stem.



Making the gussets from scrap etch



The main structure built and braced. I'm sure my soldering looked better than that. Cameras can be very cruel looks like I've got a lot of cleaning up to do .

And yes I know the stems are different lengths. Where it will fit is 25mm higher on one side than the other!


More soon.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Jon Fitness]

As I'm using the MSE SO34 GWR etch for building this gantry, I'll be using the etched walkways as well.
To give the gantry a bit of depth I've fitted some bits of square tube and angle to stand the walkways off a fair way from the top of the cross beam.



On the walkways there are etched representations of supports which are used as a guide as to where the stanchions for the handrails go. These don't really match where I need the handrails to go so I haven't matched them to the actual supports soldered to the gantry. The positions of the stanchions will be decided once I have finalised where everything else fits!!

I have soldered up 3 sections of walkway together and trimmed them to length. As the dolls will fit where I want them to and not where the pre-etched holes are on the walkways I have filled the holes with little soldered in offcuts of scrap etch.




This shows the walkway resting on the supports ready to be soldered on.




Just a little decision to make here; I've built and painted an early pattern GW stop and distant for the BR period but I'm not sure about the extent of the colour on the arms. I have painted the whole spec plate black but some pics I've seen show the square section of the plate painted in the arm colour so I've mocked up a square of each colour for comparison.




Any idea which is right for BR era?

Edited June 2, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[beast66606]

Any idea which is right for BR era?

 

If it's anything like the LMR then both !

[The Stationmaster]

Any idea which is right for BR era?

Usual story Jon - if you want a definitive answer look at contemporaneous pictures, so I have (only a few so far but plenty more in various books if you wish me to).

 

Simple answer from photographic evidence - both (and absolutely no evidence to indicate there was any date related change - even in the 1960s some signal still had the casting painted to match the arm colour while others had it painted black in the 1950s. That inconsistency applies to timber arms and equally - it would appear - to the first pattern of steel arm with the narrow corrugation on the front at top & bottom. From the pics I've found so far signal which had acquired the final pattern of steel arm with the flush front would seem to have the castings painted black but that was not, I think, a common combination as the later pattern arm usually came with the later pattern spectacle plate.

 

Incidentally no geographical distinction apparent either (which I would not have expected as the painting gang went round the whole Region as far as I'm aware).

 

Edit typo

Edited March 8, 2012 by The Stationmaster

[Jon Fitness]

If it's anything like the LMR then both !

Usual story Jon - if you want a definitive answer look at contemporaneous pictures, so I have (only a few so far but plenty more in various books if you wish me to).

 

Simple answer from photographic evidence - both (and absolutely no evidence to indicate there was any date related change - even in the 1960s some signal still had the casting painted to match the arm colour while others had it painted black in the 1950s. That inconsistency applies to timber arms and equally - it would appear - to the first pattern of steel arm with the narrow corrugation on the front at top & bottom. From the pics I've found so far signal which had acquired the final pattern of steel arm with the flush front would seem to have the castings painted black but that was not, I think, a common combination as the later pattern arm usually came with the later pattern spectacle plate.

 

Incidentally no geographical distinction apparent either (which I would not have expected as the painting gang went round the whole Region as far as I'm aware).

 

Edit typo

Excellent!

I love answers like these...it means I'm right either way

I think they'll look better with the arm colour on the spec plate but with the addition of a bit of weathering to tone them down a bit (only a little bit as my customer wants them pristine!)

 

Cheers

Jon F.

[Jon Fitness]

A little more work has been done on the gantry (been struggling for time between shifts..)
The bases for each stem have been soldered on, the larger of the two will carry all five servos. Gussets were cut and riveted and soldered to the bases as well. That's the easy bit done.


At this stage I need to know I can make up the operating linkages so a start was made on the bell cranks. Each of the five has had a small tube soldered to it to act as a bearing and to keep them apart for clearance for the operating rods.

These were then fitted with downrods and trial fitted on a dummy axle to check for clearance.


After these were (not very neatly) fitted I had a bit of a "Doh" moment. Sorting through the bits box I found some valve gear rivets which looked perfect for attaching linkages through the etched holes on the bell cranks. These coupled with some leftover bits from some Dingham couplers would make a neat job of the operating rod linkages. Wish I'd found them before I soldered the down rods on!
To avoid soldering everything solid, I chemically blackened the bell cranks, pushed a rivet through and soldered the link rod to the pin. Perfick! No play, smooth action and very little space taken up between the bellcranks.


I'll tidy up the soldering with a file during final re-assembly.

More Soon
JF

Edited June 3, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Jon Fitness]

The bellcranks are mounted at the end of the gantry on a single axle (14BA steel bolt) with the downrods exiting through the baseplate through guide holes. These will be connected to a vertical stack of servos on a bracket under the base plate.



The tails on the other end of the bellcranks will have the horizontal drive wires soldered on to them once I have built and installed the dolls.



Heres the stack of servos (last thing I did before coming to work). All mounted on brass channel soldered under the base plate. Not looking forward to the couple-up!



More soon.
JF

Edited June 3, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[Jon Fitness]

Got stuck into the GWR gantry after a break (12 hour day shifts...yawn).
Made up the dolls, including the lamps, linkages etc.



The wires were run down the dolls, out through a slit in the side below deck level, along the underside of the deck and down one of the main posts.



The servos have all been linked up to the down rods and tested. Amazingly they all worked! I've use 0.7 N/S wire for this bit.



Then the dolls were carefully soldered to the main structure and the weight bars linked to the bell cranks with 0.4mm N/S wire. Several small pieces of very fine brass tube were soldered to the deck to guide and support the wires Being very fine they shouldn't show too much once painted.



More in a few days.
Looking forward to Ally Pally on Sunday!!
JF

Edited June 3, 2015 by Jon Fitness

[N15class]

The wire you use for opperating the cranks on the platform seems very fine, what do you use?

 

Another question can the servos be used with DC aswell with DCC? I know nothing about them.

[The Stationmaster]

Jon,

 

The holes in the Backing Arm look too small to me. I can't find any dimensioned drawings at present (I might possibly have one somewhere?) but measuring off a GW official drawing in Vaughan's book the diameter of the hole is 1.5 times the distance between it and the edge of the arm at its closest point, i.e. top or bottom of arm to edge of hole = 2units, diameter of hole = 3units, total depth of arm =7 units and that measurement is for pre 1947 enamelled arms as you have used.

 

It might be that the size is misleading in the pics of the gantry but worth checking other sources if you have any available perhaps?

[Steve Hewitt]

 

More in a few days.

Looking forward to Ally Pally on Sunday!!

JF

 

Jon,

 

Please call at Liverpool Lime Street and make yourself known.

 

I've followed your efforts on this topic with great interest for some time.

(Always looking to learn from others).

 

Hope to meet you on Sunday,

Steve.

[Jon Fitness]

The wire you use for opperating the cranks on the platform seems very fine, what do you use?

 

Another question can the servos be used with DC aswell with DCC? I know nothing about them.

The wire on the decking is 0.4mm Nickel Silver running through some small sections of fine brass tube. The servo driver boards (which are essential for servo operation) once set up, rely on a simple on/off switch to activate them so if DCC can operate a simple on/off function, then yes. I use the servo driver board kits from MERG but commercially available ready to use boards are available from GF Controls or Heathcote Electronics.

Jon F.

[Jon Fitness]

Jon,

 

The holes in the Backing Arm look too small to me. I can't find any dimensioned drawings at present (I might possibly have one somewhere?) but measuring off a GW official drawing in Vaughan's book the diameter of the hole is 1.5 times the distance between it and the edge of the arm at its closest point, i.e. top or bottom of arm to edge of hole = 2units, diameter of hole = 3units, total depth of arm =7 units and that measurement is for pre 1947 enamelled arms as you have used.

 

It might be that the size is misleading in the pics of the gantry but worth checking other sources if you have any available perhaps?

Ah; I have just used the etched arm/blade as supplied from MSE so I will have to check it closer. Looking at it I can see what you mean, they do look a little small.

As a matter of interest, what was the criteria for use of a backing arm? When did a simple reverse move require a backing arm rather than a shunt disc/arm? If you "backed" over from right to wrong line and then was it still a "backing signal" move?

Cheers JF.

[Jon Fitness]

Jon,

 

Please call at Liverpool Lime Street and make yourself known.

 

I've followed your efforts on this topic with great interest for some time.

(Always looking to learn from others).

 

Hope to meet you on Sunday,

Steve.

Hi Steve,

If I can fight my way through the massed hoards round the now legendary Lime Street I'll certainly have a chat. As far as learning from others, many thanks for introducing me to servo operation! You've probably forgotten more than I've learnt regarding signal building!!

I still haven't mastered soldering built up ladders yet................

JF

[The Stationmaster]

Ah; I have just used the etched arm/blade as supplied from MSE so I will have to check it closer. Looking at it I can see what you mean, they do look a little small.

As a matter of interest, what was the criteria for use of a backing arm? When did a simple reverse move require a backing arm rather than a shunt disc/arm? If you "backed" over from right to wrong line and then was it still a "backing signal" move?

Cheers JF.

The best way of thinking of it is as the equivalent of a shunting disc signal. Even the GWR spent quite a lot of time trying to puzzle out exactly what a Backing Signal meant, there are quite a few pages of discussion about it - spread over a decade or so - in the relevant Minute Books.

 

Originally it seems fairly clear that it was regarded as the direct equivalent of an independent ground disc but with the added advantage that it could be used with a 'cash register' route indicator. However there were discussions about changing that meaning but basically they came to nought and - after some debate - it was made very clear that a Driver was only allowed to pass the signal (when it was off) on the direct instruction of whoever was in charge of the shunting movement, i.e. a Shunter or Guard.

 

By the mid 1930s it was clearly defined that such signals controlled 'backing operations over the line in the wrong direction ...' and apart from receiving authority from whoever the clearing of the signal only indicated that the points had been set for the movement, i.e. the clearing of the signal was not actually an authority to move and pass it. This interpretation was still in place in 1960 and for some years after but finally - when very few such signals were left - they were treated in exactly the same way as shunting discs.

 

One thing they could not be used for was signalling a train movement - from say the Up Line then going onto the Down Line where it would be running in the proper direction.