Dapol 121 and 122 dmus in O gauge

[admiles]

On 23/05/2022 at 10:02, Hal Nail said:

Some chat about this back on page 13 - you could message the guys who have done it. Personally I'd send it back and get one that runs smoothly but I dont know how long the return window is.

 

The only problem with returning one is that chances are the one you get as a replacement may well be even worse. Had this with my 122. Two replacements, each one worse than the one before.

In the end I just took one of the motors out. Simple 10 min job.

[Hal Nail]

3 hours ago, admiles said:

 

The only problem with returning one is that chances are the one you get as a replacement may well be even worse. Had this with my 122. Two replacements, each one worse than the one before.

In the end I just took one of the motors out. Simple 10 min job.

The only time ive sent something back was to Tower and I got them to test the replacement which they were happy to do. Rails and Hattons used stock is tested so they obviously have the capabilty to do so if you ask.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Hal Nail

[37114]

3 hours ago, admiles said:

 

The only problem with returning one is that chances are the one you get as a replacement may well be even worse. Had this with my 122. Two replacements, each one worse than the one before.

In the end I just took one of the motors out. Simple 10 min job.

Just to check on the motor removal please;

- unscrew base plate

-Drop wheelsets out

-Remove 4 screws holding the motor in place

- De solder wires? If so did you remove at the circuit board end please?

 

I am contemplating doing the same and a friend has a 122 which has gone back to Dapol with a defective worm gear so am tempted to tell him to get it back and I will remove the motor. 

[admiles]

13 minutes ago, 37114 said:

Just to check on the motor removal please;

- unscrew base plate

-Drop wheelsets out

-Remove 4 screws holding the motor in place

- De solder wires? If so did you remove at the circuit board end please?

 

I am contemplating doing the same and a friend has a 122 which has gone back to Dapol with a defective worm gear so am tempted to tell him to get it back and I will remove the motor. 

 

As you've described!  I unsoldered the wires from the motor and covered the ends in heat shrink   leaving them inside the bogie so I could refit the motor if required. I left them attached the to the PCB.  Runs sweetly with only one motor though perhaps the gearing is a little high so it runs pretty fast. 

[class27]

I do think some of the rough running issues are a gear mesh issue, my 122 has a very sweet bogie and one that requires more voltage for the same effect. If you remove the lower gear covers and run the model upside down. one bogie is fine the rough runner has one wheelset that walks from side to side. Dapol, Tower and DCC supplies have been told about this as I wanted to try a different wheelset, I think the problem lies with the moulded gear on the axle. It's never good trying to fix the wrong problem. When they finally get spares, i'll try it and let you know.

 

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, class27 said:

 It's never good trying to fix the wrong problem.

Didn't Dapol reportedly change the motors for the 121 having concluded the mismatched 122 motors were flghting each other? Or was that RMWeb fiction?

 

Thats not to say you wont get some with poor meshing (as well).

 

As a wider point, would be interesting to know what level of iffy ones are expected in a typical run these days. Although its probably more than we would like to think!

Edited May 26, 2022 by Hal Nail
typo

[hmrspaul]

My 121 supplied through Rails of Sheffield runs beautifully. It has done lots of laps of the test track circuit of the York area O gauge Group. 

 

Paul 

[class27]

5 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Didn't Dapol reportedly change the motors for the 121 having concluded the mismatched 122 motors were flghting each other? Or was that RMWeb fiction?

 

Thats not to say you wont get some with poor meshing (as well).

 

As a wider point, would be interesting to know what level of iffy ones are expected in a typical run these days. Although its probably more than we would like to think!

When I watch mine it has a tendency to surge a bit, just like an old Heljan model with a hairline in the gear causing a tight spot, easy to mistake for a dodgy motor. it is OK at lowest speed,not smooth though, then it gets quite erratic and finally settles at higher speeds

Others who have removed the motor have also removed any potential meshing issue, motor removal will cure both faults. I know a fair bit about gearboxes and their issues. If I could only get a couple of  spare axles I could find out, by turning the gear teeth off the wobbly axle (drive induced not bearing) and driving 2 on 1 and 1 on the other. To my eye everything looks ok, but 5 thou or so of eccentricity in the moulding can't be seen, but will cause lots of problems.

To be honest it would have been better with a greater reduction as it's lowest speed is not very low, shame as otherwise it's a nice model.

[wgura]

Hallo 

 

I am from Austria , my English is not so good, but I try to explain my problem.I have a Dapol 122 in gauge 0 and have the sound of Youchoos on a Zimo MX644C.Unfortunately, the model does not work. after a minute the sound is off. I have noticed that the decoder gets hot and thus also the sound fails.My question: Can you load the sound on an ESUdecoder?.. If so, please on which and then runs the model better?.Please answer.

Greetings Werner

[uk_pm]

Hello Werner

 

I think that you cannot load a sound project designed for a Zimo decoder onto an ESU decoder.  I have a pair of Dapol 122s and they really shouldn't cause a Zimo decoder to overheat.  I wonder if you should check if the mechanism is free-running and, if it isn't try to do something about it.

 

Good luck!

 

Peter

[Ray H]

Send an email top YouChoos explaining your problem. I'm sure they'll help you out.

[John R Smith]

Hello Gang

 

Help please! I have just purchased a Class 122 in green, W55000, from Rails of Sheffield, which is factory DCC sound fitted. I do not have DCC, but have an analogue DC 0 Gauge layout.

 

In the handbook it says "A DCC fitted model will autodtect and operate on both analogue (DC) and DCC". So, OK, I place the 122 on the layout and apply power from my DC controller. All the interior lights come on, increase power a touch and the engine sound gives startup and then idle. But then as I increase power no motion from the power bogies - nothing, right up to max on my controller knob. The lights get a bit brighter, the engine stays idling, but no wheels turn. This seems very strange, current is obviously getting to the DCC decoder but is not getting to the motors.

 

Any good ideas?

 

John

[norman]

Hi John

It's possible that the dynamic brake is on.  Within DCC it is possible to select which functions will be on when operating on analogue.  e.g. the sound or lights but also the dynamic brake.  If whichever function operates the dynamic brake, sometimes F2 or F4 is selected as on for DC then the loco will not move! because the brake is on.

 

It's a Zimo decoder. How are you with programming?

[John R Smith]

 

Hello Norman

 

Many thanks for your reply. I only have a DC layout. How can I program the decoder? Do you have to have a DCC controller to do this, or is there another way?

 

Yours is the most sensible suggestion so far, I must say. Rails of Sheffield just told me that the DCC version was incompatible with DC, and offered me a refund if I returned it. I do not want to return it, it is a gorgeous model and I want to keep it. So I took out the decoder and replaced it with another PCB in the box (a blanking plug?) to check that the motors were OK. Now on DC it runs just fine, so there is nothing wrong with the motors.

 

Dapol have confirmed by email that the railcar should run under DC input, and give basic sound effects. That would be brilliant and is all I want. With a bit of cleaning of the wheels and pickups it is now running very well, down to a scale walking speed in both directions, with a gentle stop and pull away.

 

Best wishes from sunny Cornwall

 

John

Edited July 10, 2022 by John R Smith
typo

[norman]

If you do not have a DCC system try a local club, perhaps someone there will be able to help you.

Set CV13=1 should do it.

Alternatively, send the decoder to someone willing.

Edited July 9, 2022 by norman

[Cowley 47521]

Evening everyone.

 

My friends 121 with sound has been away for repairs as it didn’t run properly, now it’s back the thing sounds ok on tickover, but as soon as you pull away it makes a kind of hissing sound which doesn’t sound anywhere near right.

Unfortunately DCC Supplies forgot to put the booklet back in the box when they posted it so we’re in the dark a bit! 
 

Does anyone have a similar problem and also does anyone know which function the saloon lights are on please?

 

Any help much appreciated!

 

 

[John R Smith]

Hello Cowley 47521.

 

My Dapol manual says the saloon lights are on F10.

 

Hope this helps

 

John

[Cowley 47521]

12 hours ago, John R Smith said:

Hello Cowley 47521.

 

My Dapol manual says the saloon lights are on F10.

 

Hope this helps

 

John

That’s great, thanks John.

[wgura]

Hello!I have a problem.With my Class122, the driver's lights light up in the wrong direction of travel. How can I solve this? Greeting Werner

[wgura]

Supplementary : My sound decoder is a Zimo MX644C bought at Youchoos
LG Werner

[70E]

Class 121 Headcode and destination blinds

 

Hi

 

I have ordered some custom DMU head codes and destination blinds from Steve at Railtec, who has come back with some questions which I hope you can assist in answering.

 

Headcode dimensions

a) He has asked for dimensions - I measured the head code glazing at 24 x 8mm would others agree?

 

Destination blinds

b) The Dapol destination blinds are the incorrect size , I measured the width of the centre window at 14mm, what would the height of the blind be?

 

I asked Steve about the WR brown horizontal stripes which he may include if cost effective. He has asked for a photo, but has anyone made their own either with the stripes or without?

 

Could you advise the dimensions of the individual stripes either all three or just the black one.

 

 

Installation

c) Having taken the body off it looks a bit daunting getting into the cab area so have you fitted the headcodes and destination blinds on the front 'face on' of the glazing or behind the glazing 'in reverse'

 

Many thanks in anticipation of your advice

 

 

 

[37114]

1 hour ago, 70E said:

Class 121 Headcode and destination blinds

 

Hi

 

I have ordered some custom DMU head codes and destination blinds from Steve at Railtec, who has come back with some questions which I hope you can assist in answering.

 

Headcode dimensions

a) He has asked for dimensions - I measured the head code glazing at 24 x 8mm would others agree?

 

Destination blinds

b) The Dapol destination blinds are the incorrect size , I measured the width of the centre window at 14mm, what would the height of the blind be?

 

I asked Steve about the WR brown horizontal stripes which he may include if cost effective. He has asked for a photo, but has anyone made their own either with the stripes or without?

 

Could you advise the dimensions of the individual stripes either all three or just the black one.

 

 

Installation

c) Having taken the body off it looks a bit daunting getting into the cab area so have you fitted the headcodes and destination blinds on the front 'face on' of the glazing or behind the glazing 'in reverse'

 

Many thanks in anticipation of your advice

 

 

 

I am a fair few miles away from mine at the moment so can't answer A or B but I know for C I put the destination blinds behind the glazing as it looks more realistic and Dapol include the boards to mount them on. From memory you need a really small set of screw drivers to remove the cabs and the lighting bars. Mine is from an era post headcodes so I can't help with that one as I just painted over the glass.

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, 70E said:

Destination blinds

b) The Dapol destination blinds are the incorrect size , I measured the width of the centre window at 14mm, what would the height of the blind be?

 

I asked Steve about the WR brown horizontal stripes which he may include if cost effective. He has asked for a photo, but has anyone made their own either with the stripes or without?

 

Could you advise the dimensions of the individual stripes either all three or just the black one.

 

 

These are @railtec-modelsSteve's standard size DMU/EMU destination names. 

 

The brown strips are not flush but the frame of the box with a window in for the blind, so i made them from styrene judging the size from the head on photo i posted when we discussed this a few pages back.

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/3157

 

I slightly chamfered them and instead of applying the decal to something, just cut round it so i can slide them in and out for a different name (you get 5 in a set anyway).

 

Edit: the prismatic glazing really needs to go though!

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Hal Nail

[John R Smith]

 

Glazing on a lot of coaches, DMUs, diesel locos is often the worst feature. The best way to do it, which is just so much better, is to mould the entire superstructure in clear plastic, and then paint around and up to the windows. This is the way that the Heljan AC railbus has been done, and the effect is truly superior - inside as well as out.

Edited August 22, 2022 by John R Smith

[70E]

On 22/08/2022 at 18:06, Hal Nail said:

 

These are @railtec-modelsSteve's standard size DMU/EMU destination names. 

 

The brown strips are not flush but the frame of the box with a window in for the blind, so i made them from styrene judging the size from the head on photo i posted when we discussed this a few pages back.

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/3157

 

I slightly chamfered them and instead of applying the decal to something, just cut round it so i can slide them in and out for a different name (you get 5 in a set anyway).

 

Edit: the prismatic glazing really needs to go though!

 

 

Thank you for the helpful advice.

 

One additional question has anyone populated theirs with passengers and do you have to trim legs off to get them to fit?

 

Modelu do them for the Dapol 121/122 with cut legs but was wondering if they were more relevant to the OO version rather than the O gauge version

Edited August 28, 2022 by 70E