Dapol 121 and 122 dmus in O gauge

[Hal Nail]

58 minutes ago, SirBud said:

Hal Nail,

If you can't respond constructively to someone posting and asking for help / information and offering suggestions to others what they should consider, then please refrain from doing so.

It was just a joke as we sit here in grey drizzle, no offence intended. I was watching some cricket at the Gabba the other day and wishing I was there! If I knew the answer I would willingly have helped but I'm sure someone will soon, although I can't recall reading that specific problem before. Have a good new year too.

Ian

Edited January 1, 2022 by Hal Nail

[SirBud]

Apologies Ian that I took it the wrong way and was probably a bit over sensitive - I don't post very often and generally only when I need some help.

It's easy to be critical in posts when you don't understand the context in which someone is making a comment, or don't know the person.

All's well that end's well and I think we are on the same page - no offence taken or intended.

Best regards,

Trevor

 

 

[class27]

There is a fix for the lights shown on Digitrains website, this does involve wielding a soldering iron. This was in conjunction with their own Zimo sound project.

Hal Nail was being funny as it's never great being reminded how nice it is somewhere, when you are somewhere else, which is Wet and Cold.

Health and Happiness to all for 2022

[Fastdax]

Hi Trevor,

 

I'm following this with interest.

 

I got a factory-sound Class 122 from Rails of Sheffield just before Xmas. I have also found that the synchronisation between revs and speed is not very good. When coasting to a halt, the revs can play at full tilt until just before the railcar stops, when the brake squeal sounds and the engine reverts to tickover.

 

You can just about hear it here:

 

 

 

I suspect that this sound file contains only two types of engine sounds - revving up or tickover, but not coasting. I've tried to make it play the tickover sound when speed is reduced by one step but it ignores the CV changes I tried.

 

I also miss the brake key found on all @pauliebanger sound files. F7 plays the brake sound but doesn't affect the speed. The manual refers cryptically to this feature working if 'RealDrive' is activated but makes no further mention of what this is.

 

In hindsight I'd have installed a decoder with Paul Chetter sound file myself.

 

Please do post any findings!

 

 

[pauliebanger]

3 hours ago, Fastdax said:

 

 

 

I suspect that this sound file contains only two types of engine sounds - revving up or tickover, but not coasting. I've tried to make it play the tickover sound when speed is reduced by one step but it ignores the CV changes I tried.

 

I also miss the brake key found on all @pauliebanger sound files. F7 plays the brake sound but doesn't affect the speed. The manual refers cryptically to this feature working if 'RealDrive' is activated but makes no further mention of what this is.

 

In hindsight I'd have installed a decoder with Paul Chetter sound file myself.

 

Please do post any findings!

 

 

 

As you have discovered, not all ZIMO sound projects are created equal.

 

There is also the physical problem that although Dapol recommend ZIMO for this model, no one there seems to have thought to check out if the decoder pin-outs match their PCB design (it doesn't!). As mentioned earlier, there's a fix for this on Digitrains site, there may be some re-mapping of Function Outputs required too, but that's simple enough. I created the existing Digitrains 1st generation DMU sound project, and there's a new version (almost complete, ready next week) built especially for the Dapol models. I recorded the engine sounds from a Class 121. And of course, it coasts if you want it to. LOL.

 

One way around this would be to get the decoder reblown at Digitrains. You will get my sound project and the correctly mapped outputs. (I need to check, but I think you may still need the modification shown).

 

To immediately address your lack of brake effect on F key 7, here's what you could do. CV309 = 7 (the number of the F key) and CV349 = 6 (or something around that value to set the brake 'efficiency'). That will give you brake functionality and sound on F key 7.

 

If you also wish to put the Brake key onto F 2 to match other projects of mine that you have, you could use ZIMO Input Mapping. The Small Decoder Manual and my post on here somewhere in the DCC Sound section both give full details on how to use this powerful User-focussed tool, but in this case, CV407 = 2 and CV402 = 7 will effectively swap whatever is on F key 2 to F key 7 and vice versa.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[Fastdax]

Thanks Paul, very useful info.

[class27]

Now that's interesting.

I did have a 122 sound fitted on order which was faulty, so I have cancelled that and gone for a DC version reasoning I would do the soundfit myself. I personally prefer Paul Chetter's  soundprojects and the F2 brake is invaluable. I think I am glad I changed my mind.

I have an order in for my 47 sound decoder at digitrans, so will speak to them after the holidays about the new 121/122 sound project.

Glad I waited now. 

[Fastdax]

14 hours ago, pauliebanger said:

To immediately address your lack of brake effect on F key 7, here's what you could do. CV309 = 7 (the number of the F key) and CV349 = 6 (or something around that value to set the brake 'efficiency'). That will give you brake functionality and sound on F key 7.

 

If you also wish to put the Brake key onto F 2 to match other projects of mine that you have, you could use ZIMO Input Mapping. The Small Decoder Manual and my post on here somewhere in the DCC Sound section both give full details on how to use this powerful User-focussed tool, but in this case, CV407 = 2 and CV402 = 7 will effectively swap whatever is on F key 2 to F key 7 and vice versa.

 

That works fine. Thanks Paul.

[SirBud]

Thanks everyone for your input and advice.

Looks like seeking the assistance of Digitrains to re-blow the Zimo decoder with Paul Chetter's new soundfile when it is available will be the best way to go.

Best regards,

Trevor

[admiles]

Quick question if I may?

 

Has anyone returned their 122 to Dapol/DCC Supplies for repair because of the poor running issue actually has theirs back yet?  Mine's now at four months and counting without a peep from anyone...

 

Can't say I'm impressed.

 

Edit: It's a DC version so if it ever returns and actually works the Paul Chetter/Digitrains sound project option will be of great interest.

Edited January 4, 2022 by admiles

[admiles]

On 01/01/2022 at 20:21, pauliebanger said:

 

As you have discovered, not all ZIMO sound projects are created equal.

 

There is also the physical problem that although Dapol recommend ZIMO for this model, no one there seems to have thought to check out if the decoder pin-outs match their PCB design (it doesn't!). As mentioned earlier, there's a fix for this on Digitrains site, there may be some re-mapping of Function Outputs required too, but that's simple enough. I created the existing Digitrains 1st generation DMU sound project, and there's a new version (almost complete, ready next week) built especially for the Dapol models. I recorded the engine sounds from a Class 121. And of course, it coasts if you want it to. LOL.

 

One way around this would be to get the decoder reblown at Digitrains. You will get my sound project and the correctly mapped outputs. (I need to check, but I think you may still need the modification shown).

 

To immediately address your lack of brake effect on F key 7, here's what you could do. CV309 = 7 (the number of the F key) and CV349 = 6 (or something around that value to set the brake 'efficiency'). That will give you brake functionality and sound on F key 7.

 

If you also wish to put the Brake key onto F 2 to match other projects of mine that you have, you could use ZIMO Input Mapping. The Small Decoder Manual and my post on here somewhere in the DCC Sound section both give full details on how to use this powerful User-focussed tool, but in this case, CV407 = 2 and CV402 = 7 will effectively swap whatever is on F key 2 to F key 7 and vice versa.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

Paul,

 

Would you know if the latest version of your sound project for the 7mm class 122 is the version currently being offered on the Digitrains website?

 

Also I have the blue/grey version of the class 122 which doesn't have a high intensity headlight fitted. Ideally I'd like to add one and have it controlled independently from the marker lights. Do you know if that would be possible as the model uses the 21 pin interface?

 

Thanks

Anthony

[birdseyecircus]

On 04/01/2022 at 17:27, admiles said:

Quick question if I may?

 

Has anyone returned their 122 to Dapol/DCC Supplies for repair because of the poor running issue actually has theirs back yet?  Mine's now at four months and counting without a peep from anyone...

 

Can't say I'm impressed.

 

Edit: It's a DC version so if it ever returns and actually works the Paul Chetter/Digitrains sound project option will be of great interest.

I contacted Dapol first who put me in touch with DCC supplies. However I decided to return it to the retailer (Rails) who confirmed the fault and sent out a replacement, which seems OK so far running on DCC (no sound).

 

Paul

[admiles]

3 hours ago, birdseyecircus said:

I contacted Dapol first who put me in touch with DCC supplies. However I decided to return it to the retailer (Rails) who confirmed the fault and sent out a replacement, which seems OK so far running on DCC (no sound).

 

Paul

 

I got a "mine" back "repaired" after much chasing 4.5 months later. Except it wasn't the one I'd sent off for repair but a replacement that ran worse than the first one and had several bits broken off. I suspect it was one someone else had returned....

 

In the end I took out one motor (one end was dead and being dragged by the functioning motor) and it now runs okish on just the one.  

 

Am I happy? No, very, very poor service by Dapol but I did want this model so had to be pragmatic and sort it best I could.

 

 

[Hal Nail]

On 01/02/2022 at 12:46, admiles said:

very poor service by Dapol but I did want this model so had to be pragmatic and sort it best I could.

Did you buy this from Dapol direct?

 

I've usually used Tower and the one time I had a problem (with a Heljan 45) which wasn't as smooth as I'd have expected, they sent out a replacement the day I phoned (having tested it first) and didn't even wait for me to return the original loco first.

 

Given these days there is little quality control but it is generally easy to get a replacement, your experience seems unusual, unfortunately. 

 

Of course if its a widespread flaw in the product and they are all the same then fixing it is the only solution

[admiles]

23 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Did you buy this from Dapol direct?

 

I've usually used Tower and the one time I had a problem (with a Heljan 45) which wasn't as smooth as I'd have expected, they sent out a replacement the day I phoned (having tested it first) and didn't even wait for me to return the original loco first.

 

Given these days there is little quality control but it is generally easy to get a replacement, your experience seems unusual, unfortunately. 

 

Of course if its a widespread flaw in the product and they are all the same then fixing it is the only solution

 

No, was supplied by my local model shop (who were excellent as always!)  who were supplied by Gaugemaster. Replacement apparently wasn't possible as the blue/grey version had sold out at Dapol.  The model was sent back to Gaugemaster with 24 hours of me first getting it. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by admiles

[37114]

Just had a note from Hattons to say my class 121 is due into them tomorrow, great news if that is true!

[two tone green]

Tower models saying similar 

http://www.tower-models.com

[Hal Nail]

If someone receiving a green one can please confirm if the whiskers meet in the middle or are spaced either side of the non-existent headcode, as in the sample, that will influence whether I go green or blue.

 

Thanks!

[two tone green]

28 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

If someone receiving a green one can please confirm if the whiskers meet in the middle or are spaced either side of the non-existent headcode, as in the sample, that will influence whether I go green or blue.

 

Thanks!

And what is right for you with the speed whiskers 

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, two tone green said:

And what is right for you with the speed whiskers 

Middle.

https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-121/liveries

[two tone green]

Fingers crossed. 

[class27]

My Dapol 122 is a great looking model, when I ran it in on the rolling road I noticed 1 bogie was much more free running than the other, I took the lower axle covers off and cleaned out the thick gloop and oiled the mech. as Dapol suggest. This gave a marked improvement, so I left it at that and ordered a chip, speakers and Paul Chetter's latest sound file. The Running was not good at low speed, so a phone call to Digitrains gave some CV's to tweak which improved things, but has not cured it, so I decided to put it in the cradle upside down with the axle covers removed and see what's what. It is interesting to note  that the slower bogie has an axle that walks from side to side at one end only, which would suggest a mesh issue and on thinking about it, it displays the same symptoms as a Heljan with a hairline crack in a gear, not enough to make it jerky, but pulsing at low speed and smoothing out with speed. I am going to call DCC supplies to see if they will send me an axle to substitute, if not they will be getting the whole thing back. I'll let you know how it goes............

[two tone green]

On 07/02/2022 at 20:40, Hal Nail said:

Middle.

https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-121/liveries

I have a feeling you are going to be disappointed. 

[admiles]

21 hours ago, class27 said:

My Dapol 122 is a great looking model, when I ran it in on the rolling road I noticed 1 bogie was much more free running than the other, I took the lower axle covers off and cleaned out the thick gloop and oiled the mech. as Dapol suggest. This gave a marked improvement, so I left it at that and ordered a chip, speakers and Paul Chetter's latest sound file. The Running was not good at low speed, so a phone call to Digitrains gave some CV's to tweak which improved things, but has not cured it, so I decided to put it in the cradle upside down with the axle covers removed and see what's what. It is interesting to note  that the slower bogie has an axle that walks from side to side at one end only, which would suggest a mesh issue and on thinking about it, it displays the same symptoms as a Heljan with a hairline crack in a gear, not enough to make it jerky, but pulsing at low speed and smoothing out with speed. I am going to call DCC supplies to see if they will send me an axle to substitute, if not they will be getting the whole thing back. I'll let you know how it goes............

 

An alternative is to remove one motor. Not ideal I grant you but they run perfectly fine on just the one.  Might be better than losing out on the model entirely.

[Keith J]

On 07/02/2022 at 18:58, Hal Nail said:

If someone receiving a green one can please confirm if the whiskers meet in the middle or are spaced either side of the non-existent headcode, as in the sample, that will influence whether I go green or blue.

 

Thanks!

 

Here's your answer. The odd thing for me is that they managed to get the speed whiskers correct on the 00 model so why not this one? Apart from that, beautiful model.