Painting advice

[ruggedpeak]

Advice please, am brush painting a Hornby mk2 coach in NR yellow. It was primed with white car primer as a base for the yellow, and the difference between the blue/grey parts of the coach side were not visible so thought all would be well.

 

Now the yellow is on it is quite clear through the paint. I am using Railmatch enamel and after 2 coats I don't think it is going to get much better without ending up with a very thick layer of paint. I am assuming the only way to resolve it to strip all the paint off and start again?

 

 

Thanks.

[sulzer71]

On 16/04/2022 at 10:49, ruggedpeak said:

Advice please, am brush painting a Hornby mk2 coach in NR yellow. It was primed with white car primer as a base for the yellow, and the difference between the blue/grey parts of the coach side were not visible so thought all would be well.

 

Now the yellow is on it is quite clear through the paint. I am using Railmatch enamel and after 2 coats I don't think it is going to get much better without ending up with a very thick layer of paint. I am assuming the only way to resolve it to strip all the paint off and start again?

 

 

Thanks.

I am only just venturing into repaints myself but everything I have waiting to be done has been completely stripped of all the original paint using 99.9% Isopropyl Alcohol so as to avoid any potential issues like you are encountering

[Hal Nail]

On 16/04/2022 at 10:49, ruggedpeak said:

Advice please, am brush painting a Hornby mk2 coach in NR yellow. It was primed with white car primer as a base for the yellow, and the difference between the blue/grey parts of the coach side were not visible so thought all would be well.

 

Now the yellow is on it is quite clear through the paint. I am using Railmatch enamel and after 2 coats I don't think it is going to get much better without ending up with a very thick layer of paint. I am assuming the only way to resolve it to strip all the paint off and start again?

 

 

Thanks.

 

Is it the colour showing or the different layers of the original paint? Rubbing down with very fine (eg 2000 or higher) grade wet and dry will give you a smooth base to start with even if you dont fully strip the factory finish.

 

I've removed a few home paint jobs and usally found the added layers virtually wipe off at the mere sight of ipa - so its probably a quick job to get back to where you started at least.

[ruggedpeak]

Thanks for the comments. I resorted to using superstrip 2 to get back to bare plastic.

 

I then applied 2 coats of car spray acrylic white primer, but despite this the issue reappeared. I then tried another 2 coats of Halfords grey primer on top and it did not entirely remove it. Another coat of white primer to provide a base for the NR yellow made the problem worse, as per this picture despite stripping back to bare plastic and all the white paint removed and multiple layers of primer the light/dark issue remains. Somewhat bamboozled.....🙄

 

 

Does plastic have "paint memory"?!

Edited May 10, 2022 by ruggedpeak

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

 

Is it the colour showing or the different layers of the original paint? Rubbing down with very fine (eg 2000 or higher) grade wet and dry will give you a smooth base to start with even if you dont fully strip the factory finish.

 

I've removed a few home paint jobs and usally found the added layers virtually wipe off at the mere sight of ipa - so its probably a quick job to get back to where you started at least.

 

If you do strip and repaint, a mist of grey primer from a rattle-can, followed by white primer - also from a can - should cover all traces of the underlying livery.

 

I would also apply the yellow from a can - plenty of different shades available and much easier / reliable than brush painting.

 

CJI.

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said:

Thanks for the comments. I resorted to using superstrip 2 to get back to bare plastic.

 

I then applied 2 coats of car spray acrylic white primer, but despite this the issue reappeared. I then tried another 2 coats of Halfords grey primer on top and it did not entirely remove it. Another coat of white primer to provide a base for the NR yellow made the problem worse, as per this picture despite stripping back to bare plastic and all the white paint removed and multiple layers of primer the light/dark issue remains. Somewhat bamboozled.....🙄

 

 

Does plastic have "paint memory"?!

It is strange. I've never had one coat of Halfords primer fail to cover completely to be honest. 

 

As an aside, how was superstrip? My impression from reading these forums is it works but is quite an expensive option. Is that fair?

 

Edit: how about trying one coat of dark (eg blue) then one of primer?

Edited May 10, 2022 by Hal Nail

[cctransuk]

31 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

It is strange. I've never had one coat of Halfords primer fail to cover completely to be honest. 

 

As an aside, how was superstrip? My impression from reading these forums is it works but is quite an expensive option. Is that fair?

 

Edit: how about trying one coat of dark (eg blue) then one of primer?

 

Is it possible that you are seeing a difference in surface texture, rather than a difference in ccolour? It is just possible that the solvent in one of the original paints has slightly textured the plastic; perhaps a light rubbing-down with 1200 grit wet & dry?

 

Also, how about spraying the interior of the coach body with grey primer, to remove any chance of translucence in the plastic?

 

Regards,

CJI.

[Hal Nail]

7 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Is it possible that you are seeing a difference in surface texture, rather than a difference in ccolour? It is just possible that the solvent in one of the original paints has slightly textured the plastic; perhaps a light rubbing-down with 1200 grit wet & dry?

 

Thats what I suggest he try above - i think our replies have been crossing.

[ruggedpeak]

Thanks for the suggestions, I will try those. Thought plating the windows and repainting would be a nice quick job compared to the DBSO's I'm doing!!

 

Results of Superstrip 2 below:

 

47 in the foreground is a 30 year old Hornby 47, stripped everything except the original yellow Hornby paint, which nothing seems to touch!

 

The coach in the background is a recent Hornby Mk2f, rather odd end result. Not sure if that is the coach itself or that the superstrip has given up. It had stripped a lot of things by the time I put this in. Will get some more and see if it has any effect as the end result is not the same as the coaches in the other photo!

 

 

In the photo below the coaches are both relatively recent Hornby Mk2d's being converted to DBSO's and are completely back to the white plastic. The dark patches are superglue from attached detail. The purple patches on the rear body is metal primer on the etched bits (the rear one has been done with a PHD etch kit, the front one with a 3D printed kit from Andy on here)

 

 

Overall Superstrip is not cheap but does seem to work. I am new to painting and stripping paint off so learning, and the combination of wiping/scraping off the paint does seem to 'absorb' a lot of the liquid so I have used 2 bottles to strip 4 coaches, an old 47 and some small wagons.  Not much left and filtering it loses a more so whilst it is resuable in theory it depends how much is consumed. Probably need a bit more practice with it to consume less.

Edited May 10, 2022 by ruggedpeak

[cctransuk]

3 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

Thanks for the suggestions, I will try those. Thought plating the windows and repainting would be a nice quick job compared to the DBSO's I'm doing!!

 

Results of Superstrip 2 below:

 

47 in the foreground is a 30 year old Hornby 47, stripped everything except the original yellow Hornby paint, which nothing seems to touch!

 

The coach in the background is a recent Hornby Mk2f, rather odd end result. Not sure if that is the coach itself or that the superstrip has given up. It had stripped a lot of things by the time I put this in. Will get some more and see if it has any effect as the end result is not the same as the coaches in the other photo!

 

 

In the photo below the coaches are both relatively recent Hornby Mk2d's being converted to DBSO's and are completely back to the white plastic. The dark patches are superglue from attached detail. The purple patches on the rear body is metal primer on the etched bits (the rear one has been done with a PHD etch kit, the front one with a 3D printed kit from Andy on here)

 

 

Overall Superstrip is not cheap but does seem to work. I am new to painting and stripping paint off so learning, and the combination of wiping/scraping off the paint does seem to 'absorb' a lot of the liquid so I have used 2 bottles to strip 4 coaches, an old 47 and some small wagons.  Not much left and filtering it loses a more so whilst it is resuable in theory it depends how much is consumed. Probably need a bit more practice with it to consume less.

 

For future stripping, you may wish to try Mr. Muscle spray-on oven cleaner foam - in the orange can.

 

Spray it all over the model, then place it on a sealed food bag for 24 hours. After that, rinse off the gunk and wash the model well.

 

Watch out for the fumes when spraying - they make me cough!

 

CJI.

[ruggedpeak]

8 hours ago, cctransuk said:

Also, how about spraying the interior of the coach body with grey primer, to remove any chance of translucence in the plastic?

So I put my fingers behind the bodyside and there was the faintest shadow as I moved them back and forth. The lower body side is much thinner plastic than the upper, so I have sprayed with grey primer and will leave to dry and look again tomo. Fingers crossed!

 

Scratch that, just been out to inspect no different. Some sanding then....

Edited May 10, 2022 by ruggedpeak

[sulzer71]

On 10/05/2022 at 12:12, ruggedpeak said:

Thanks for the suggestions, I will try those. Thought plating the windows and repainting would be a nice quick job compared to the DBSO's I'm doing!!

 

Results of Superstrip 2 below:

 

47 in the foreground is a 30 year old Hornby 47, stripped everything except the original yellow Hornby paint, which nothing seems to touch!

 

The coach in the background is a recent Hornby Mk2f, rather odd end result. Not sure if that is the coach itself or that the superstrip has given up. It had stripped a lot of things by the time I put this in. Will get some more and see if it has any effect as the end result is not the same as the coaches in the other photo!

 

 

In the photo below the coaches are both relatively recent Hornby Mk2d's being converted to DBSO's and are completely back to the white plastic. The dark patches are superglue from attached detail. The purple patches on the rear body is metal primer on the etched bits (the rear one has been done with a PHD etch kit, the front one with a 3D printed kit from Andy on here)

 

 

Overall Superstrip is not cheap but does seem to work. I am new to painting and stripping paint off so learning, and the combination of wiping/scraping off the paint does seem to 'absorb' a lot of the liquid so I have used 2 bottles to strip 4 coaches, an old 47 and some small wagons.  Not much left and filtering it loses a more so whilst it is resuable in theory it depends how much is consumed. Probably need a bit more practice with it to consume less.

You really should give 99.9% Isopropyl Alcohol a go as I mentioned previously , it's cheap as chips and does a great job , I have stripped a couple of Heljan Class 26s the last couple of nights and all paint has been removed within 2 hours of them getting dunked in it , another thing I've found recently is helpful in the job is a cheapo £3 battery toothbrush , after the combination of toothbrush + Isopropyl there's almost zero trace of paint left on the model

[sulzer71]

Here's some pics of the Heljan 26s I've done in the Isopropyl Alcohol so you can see the results I've been getting

[Steadfast]

On 11/05/2022 at 15:48, sulzer71 said:

You really should give 99.9% Isopropyl Alcohol a go as I mentioned previously , it's cheap as chips and does a great job , I have stripped a couple of Heljan Class 26s the last couple of nights and all paint has been removed within 2 hours of them getting dunked in it , another thing I've found recently is helpful in the job is a cheapo £3 battery toothbrush , after the combination of toothbrush + Isopropyl there's almost zero trace of paint left on the model

Totally agree on the IPA. It'll have factory paint finishes removed in a couple of hours, if left to soak in an air tight tub. I let it down with some water to make it roughly 93% (I think the water stops it evaporating too quickly) as recommended previously, I believe on RMweb. 

Additionally,  the IPA (touch wood) has never reacted with any clear plastic I've put in it either.

The IPA I get is from ebay,  most recent bottle was about £6 for a litre.

 

Jo

Edited May 16, 2022 by Steadfast

[ellocoloco]

On 10/05/2022 at 12:12, ruggedpeak said:

47 in the foreground is a 30 year old Hornby 47, stripped everything except the original yellow Hornby paint, which nothing seems to touch!

As the guys above have mentioned, try IPA. It won't come off overnight but will eventually come off. I have stripped an old Triang 37 with the same yellow ends and it took a while.

[ruggedpeak]

Thanks all.

 

In the IPA v. Superstrip 2 stakes, my experience so far is that SS2 is better at removing large areas and/or multiple layers of paint as it generally just wipes off, rather than needing some scrubbing that the IPA did. However IPA was better at getting into crevices and corners, and is a lot cheaper. So my view at the moment is SS2 to get the bulk of the paint off and IPA to finish off the detail.

 

Having said that, back the original issue. Despite being stripped back to the plastic twice now with liberal applications of IPA and SS2 and some fine abrasion with wet and dry, all of which were effective in removing all paint, on reapplying (yet again) 2 layers of Halfords grey primer, this ghosting effect is still visible and no doubt exacerbated when I apply the white primer over the top. Really at a loss as to know what to do other just carry on and ignore it.

 

[ISW]

On 23/05/2022 at 18:11, ruggedpeak said:

Despite being stripped back to the plastic twice now with liberal applications of IPA and SS2 and some fine abrasion with wet and dry, all of which were effective in removing all paint, on reapplying (yet again) 2 layers of Halfords grey primer, this ghosting effect is still visible and no doubt exacerbated when I apply the white primer over the top. Really at a loss as to know what to do other just carry on and ignore it.

Surely if you've removed all the previous 2-colour paint job, there can't be any 'ghosting' from it. Appears more likely that you are seeing the light being reflected differently off the straight & curved elements of the coach side.

 

I suggest you cut a rectangular opening (letterbox ~1cm x 2cm?) into a piece of cardboard, and then view the side of your primer painted coach through the 'letterbox'. That will let you view the paint more 'objectively' and, hopefully, remove any undue reflections so show, fingers crossed, that the whole side of the coach is the same shade / colour.

 

Now I'll put those straws down that I was clutching ...

 

Ian

[John Tomlinson]

On 26/05/2022 at 14:45, ISW said:

Surely if you've removed all the previous 2-colour paint job, there can't be any 'ghosting' from it. Appears more likely that you are seeing the light being reflected differently off the straight & curved elements of the coach side.

 

I suggest you cut a rectangular opening (letterbox ~1cm x 2cm?) into a piece of cardboard, and then view the side of your primer painted coach through the 'letterbox'. That will let you view the paint more 'objectively' and, hopefully, remove any undue reflections so show, fingers crossed, that the whole side of the coach is the same shade / colour.

 

Now I'll put those straws down that I was clutching ...

 

Ian

 

Exactly, there's either residual paint there or there isn't, if it isn't present it can't show through!

 

I'd go for your explanation of light on the curved lower surface compared to the flat upper one. The only other explanation is paint remaining on the interior that affects the outside through trasparency. Again if all the paint has been taken off this can't be the case.

 

John.