Can I mix and match Hornby controllers and their transformers?

[ianp]

I was using an old Hornby controller (R.965) with its transformer (C.912) to test the ultra simple wiring on my layout under construction (just a circle of track). All went well until, suddenly, it didn't. The power cut out for no obvious reason and will not resume. So, I guess that either the controller or the transformer have failed. And yes, there is indeed power coming from the mains plug to the transformer. My question is this: can I safely just buy any other Hornby controller off Ebay and expect the transformer to supply it with power without any problems? Or are the controllers and transformers matched in some way that prevents a user from mixing them up?

[kevinlms]

Buy yourself a cheap multimeter, then with the assistance from here, you'll be starting to learn how to identify, which part is faulty and some ideas on restoring your layout.

At present, we can only guess as to whether the transformer OR the controller has died. Most likely the transformer, but we can't be sure.

[ianp]

Thank you. I do indeed have a cheap multi-meter which I have used to check the output of my car battery. This is it. How should I proceed with a transformer though? I apologise that my knowledge of electrics has faded since I passed my physics O level nearly 50 years ago. By the way, the instructions with the multi meter are poor.

[smokebox]

You have to be careful to match the correct power supply to each controller.  Some power supplies are dc and some are ac.  Same with controllers, some need ac and some need dc supplies.

 

You also need match the voltages pretty closely.  If you use a 19volt  supply with a controller that only needs 15volts, then it won't work for very long!

[ianp]

I watched a Youtube video: 

 

Testing the output of the transformer gave me a reading of 17v AC (as against its stated rating of 16v AC).  Does that matter? Either way, electricity is flowing out of the transformer. The controller requires 15V AC to be going into it. I plugged it in and then tested the output terminals and wires of the controller, which should show 0-12v DC. The meter showed nothing. I tested again and still nothing. Can I rightly conclude that the controller is faulty and that I just need a new or second hand one that will take an input of about 17v AC? 

[SamThomas]

The multimeter you have will be fine for general layout use.

 

But, do yourself a favour & replace the controller & transformer you have & with something like a Gaugemaster GMC-**. Not cheap but you should get a better price from a GM stockist. One advantage of GM controllers is that they come with a lifetime warranty.

 

If you choose to buy secondhand be very careful.

[Wheatley]

The R965 is incompatable with the power pack from the newer and truly dreadful R8250, I think off the top if my head that they're different supply voltages. 

 

What Sam said - buy a Gaugemaster, their Combi is the cheap end of their range at £40 and will outlast any number of second hand Hornby ones. Second hand 965s of unknown and possibly dubious provenance are currently £20+ on Ebay. 

[Pete the Elaner]

2 hours ago, SamThomas said:

The multimeter you have will be fine for general layout use.

 

But, do yourself a favour & replace the controller & transformer you have & with something like a Gaugemaster GMC-**. Not cheap but you should get a better price from a GM stockist. One advantage of GM controllers is that they come with a lifetime warranty.

 

If you choose to buy secondhand be very careful.

They honour it too. It doesn't matter if you are not the first owner & they don't ask for a receipt.

As long as parts have not become obsolete, they will repair it.

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, ianp said:

I watched a Youtube video: 

 

Testing the output of the transformer gave me a reading of 17v AC (as against its stated rating of 16v AC).  Does that matter? Either way, electricity is flowing out of the transformer. The controller requires 15V AC to be going into it. I plugged it in and then tested the output terminals and wires of the controller, which should show 0-12v DC. The meter showed nothing. I tested again and still nothing. Can I rightly conclude that the controller is faulty and that I just need a new or second hand one that will take an input of about 17v AC? 

The rating of 16 Volts AC refers to it's output at it's maximum output - perhaps 1 Amp. If it's showing 17 Volts AC, then it's showing the Voltage without a load.

There is nothing wrong with your power supply, it's testing pretty close to spot on.

 

Sounds like your controller is dead and unlikely to be repairable (given the value of these). Perhaps with a bit of experience you may be able to, but these units are probably not worth the bother!

[Phil Parker]

4 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

They honour it too. It doesn't matter if you are not the first owner & they don't ask for a receipt.

As long as parts have not become obsolete, they will repair it.

 

I'll second that. Both of my handhelds have been in for repair because I wore them out. Excellent service.

[SamThomas]

5 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

As long as parts have not become obsolete, they will repair it.

Not only that - if the parts to repair the controller are no longer available they will replace the controller with a current range equivelent.

[andyman7]

+1 for the Gaugemaster endorsement. The latest Hornby set controller (R7229) isn't so flimsy but the price differential to a Combi (which costs around £40) is not that great and the quality of construction plus the genuine guarantee means that it is by far the better buy. I have a few Hornby controllers knocking around acquired in sets etc but I wouldn't be without the Gaugemaster kit for reliable go-to layout power 

[DCB]

Sounds like the overload cut out has failed, most modernish stuff uses polyfuses about £1 worth.     60 years ago we had decent electro magnet cut outs which cut the power dramatically or cut it completely until reset. 

Could the power have been left on  with the output shorted out. If so you could do the new controller a power of no good by connecting it up and shorting it out straight away. Check there is no continuity between the feed wires with no stock on the layout, controllers don't usually fail for no reason, but connecting one to a dead short or if applicable powering an old power hungry loco with a feeble Hornby controller is one good way to make them fail.

There shouldn't be any real problem with linking up what we used to call a rectifier controller to your 17 volt AC transformer but I expect the wiring plugs will be wrong, but make sure the controller is a rectifier unit and intended for AC Input, if not feeding DC locos with AC is not exactly beneficial.

 

[ianp]

Update: The Hornby controller has sprung to life. No idea why. As I'm just using it for testing track and locos (I intend to use a DCC controller on the eventual layout) I shall stick with it for the time being. If it fails again I shall throw it away and buy a Gaugemaster Combi. Thanks for all the very useful advice.

[kevinlms]

9 hours ago, ianp said:

Update: The Hornby controller has sprung to life. No idea why. As I'm just using it for testing track and locos (I intend to use a DCC controller on the eventual layout) I shall stick with it for the time being. If it fails again I shall throw it away and buy a Gaugemaster Combi. Thanks for all the very useful advice.

Some of these things need to be unplugged and left for a while - longer than you might think. No idea why - just frustrating!

My guess is that the chip has turned off to protect itself.

Edited May 18, 2022 by kevinlms
More info