District Line Q stock

[Guest]

I am in process of updating the Eastleigh Model Rail website for the new Q stock range and one of the downloadable resources will be a very brief history of the fleet.  As this is not home territory for me, I should be very grateful if the experts on this forum could cast an eye over my literary efforts and point out any obvious howlers.

 

Q stock prototype notes.pdf

[Engineer]

A quick initial response to the draft Q Stock notes.  I don't have detailed knowledge of District stock so I'd be going to trusted 'sources of truth' to get facts correct.  At this moment, I can offer only some constructive reflections, but I can have a closer look at the document in due course if useful.

 

It is wise to support modelling products with background information - good for sales and to encourage informed builders.  The notes seem to give a good general overview and information on variants and detail.

 

To enhance an overview note, I'd like to see footnotes to guide the reader to the best 'sources of truth' to find out more.  This is also a means to minimise rumour, speculation and the urban myths that crop up from some quarters.  In this case, I'd advise two superb published sources for District stock information:

 

Surface Stock Handbook 1933-1959, Hardy, Brian.  Capital Transport Publishing [Paperback]  (ISBN: 8601416851020)
Definitely the most trustworthy general digest for the District fleet.  Not in current publication but available on the second-hand market.  Other books are available, some more technical, some more narrative in form.

 

"Underground News" multi-article series on District rolling stock. Connor, Piers.  

The articles give deeper detail and background, and go some way to filling the information gaps on modelling essentials such as interiors and underframes.  Thoroughly researched, with emphasis on the 'why' for the stock and its features.

Back numbers available from the London Underground Railway Society:  https://www.lurs.org.uk/  

 

Selection of relevant articles:

2010 April Article 14 - includes bogies and G Stock/Q23
available via LURS web pages: https://www.lurs.org.uk/articles10_htm_files/district electric trains 14.pdf  

 

2010 May Article 15 - G Stock
2010 June Article 16 - K Stock and re-numbering
2010 July Article 17 - L, M, N Stock

 

2010 October Article 20 - includes mention of G Stock conversions for South Acton, and change to Qyy stock designations.
Available via LURS web pages: https://www.lurs.org.uk/articles10_htm_files/district electric trains.pdf

 

2011 January Article 23 - discussion of schemes for O, P, Q, R Stock and Q38 conversion
Available via LURS web pages:   https://www.lurs.org.uk/articles11_htm_files/01 jan 11.pdf  

 

2011 March Article 25 - further discussion of O, P, Q Stock features and related details
Available via LURS web pages:   https://www.lurs.org.uk/articles11_htm_files/01 march 11 DISTRICT ELECTRIC TRAINS.pdf  

 

2011 August Article 30 - refers to demise of Q Stock

Available via LURS web pages:

https://www.lurs.org.uk/articles11_htm_files/01 aug 11 DISTRICT ELECTRIC TRAINS.pdf

 

One benefit of the extra sources is that modellers can gather information on numbering, orientation of cars and dates.  Sometimes it's useful to find out just which car types to purchase to provide broadly representative formations for a certain period and a certain area of the railway.  For other modellers, it can help to achieve the precision and historical accuracy they might desire from their model-making.

Good sources can help with images that have explanations for design features and sometimes below-solebar detail.  Other vital information comes from train formation diagrams, and the scheduling details of the services run by the stock in various configurations.  I have done a small amount of research on a specific era for the Metropolitan's diverse electric fleet where it's fair to say that there are more gaps still to full.  I found that there's no alternative to going back to original sources if new information is needed to answer the unanswered questions - working timetables, diagram books, drawings, filed reports and correspondence, but the body of knowledge becomes much richer as a result.
 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Engineer
Added information, clarification and sources.

[Guest]

Dear Engineer

Thank you for your comprehensive feedback.  The  LURS articles are very useful though sadly not all of them are still available on the website.  Also on your recommendation I obtained a secondhand copy of Brian Hardy's Underground Train File - Surface Stock 1933-1959 (for the princely sum of £2.50 plus P&P!) and this has filled several gaps in my understanding of the Q stock conversion programme and subsequent cascades of stock.

Once again, thank you for taking the trouble to respond so helpfully - although my prototype notes can only skim the surface of history of this complex fleet it is the better for your input.

Stephen Grant

 

[Guest]

A brief update on progress - we are all set to start taking orders, just waiting for the Eastleigh website to be updated.   The kits will retail at £115 per car.   In the meantime, attached are a couple of pics of the 4-car prototype set on test.

[Lord of Narnia]

These look good. Wondering whether to can the Radley Models versions which I was working on. 
 

Do they come RTR or as kits?

[SteveCornford]

The kits have now appeared on https://www.eastleighmodelrail.co.uk/london-underground-q23-driving-motor

I note the instructions state a 30.25mm wheelbase black beetle bogie is required but surely the A2 bogies were 7 foot 3 ins wheelbase which is 29mm in 4mm scale?

The K2 bodies were 7 foot 10 ins asymmetric wheelbase.

Steve

Edited August 1, 2023 by SteveCornford

[roythebus1]

Q23 bogies have a different wheelbase at either end according to my Skinley blueprint. Different bogie design as well.

[SteveCornford]

Sorry, i got my A2 and K2 bogies transposed.

A2 was the 7' 10" motor bogie, drawing page 215 April 2010 Underground News (L.U.R.S).

K2 was the 7' 3" trailer bogie, drawing page 216 April 2010 Underground News (L.U.R.S).

Both used on the G stock motor cars ordered from Gloucester Railway Carriage & Wagon Co. in february 1924, which later became Q23 stock

 

7' 10" in 4mm scale is 31.33mm, which rounded to nearest 0.25mm would be 31.25mm.

 

So my question to Stephen is:- WHat size Black Beetle bogie do we need?

 

30.25mm or 31.25mm?

 

Steve

 

 

[roythebus1]

I can't find my Skinley blue print despite it being on the workbench fr the last few months! I have a 31mm Black Beetle bogie with a question mark and another at 29mm marked as Q stock. It'll be a case of going as near as you can as BB won't make them to odd 0.25mm dimensions. 

 

I bought. load from them earlier this year to stock up for future requirements, trying to save shipping costs, and it cost a fortune in import duty as the limit is £120 in value for duty-free. Be warned. but delivery was within a couple of weeks.

 

As you may know, most LT stock had spoked wheels. I spoke with BB about doing some with spoked wheels but he said it wasn't possible from a production POV as he couldn't get 12mm spoked wheels to RP25 in Aus. However there's nothing to stop you changing the wheels if you can find some that fit.

[Guest]

Steve Cornford is absolutely right that the A2 motor bogie should have been 31.25mm, not 30.25mm and this will be corrected before any orders (including those already received) are sent out.  The instructions on the website will also be corrected.