Prof Klyzlr Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I must say I was hoping for better auto-uncoupling too when I moved to American HO. I don't really understand why some cars and locos should be better than others, it almost amounts to them not being fit for purpose. With some, the coupler actually moves the wrong way when over the magnet. My best uncoupler is an Athearn SW1500 which I fitted with Kadee #38s. Some of the Bachmann factory fitted ones are hopeless. I like to think that with the right couplers (Kadee no. 5s and/or 148 whisker couplers?) on all stock and magnets in the right place, on nice straight track, reliable uncoupling would be achievable, but I'm not sure I could be bothered finding out. The skewers are handy, especially as for most of the time I'm only playing trains on my own. If I get the layout to an exhibition, I'll probably just grin and bear it. Dear Rod, Most any magnetic coupler will flick "the wrong way" if: - the trip pin is not correctly aligned relative to track centreline - the magnet is not correctly mounted or oriented relative to track centreline - the magnet is located on a too-tight curve. All issues covered in the Kadee manuals included with couplers and magnets... (This is a case where RTDM is highly advisable... :-) ). NB that most plastic couplers do not officially support the Kadee magnets, and vice versa. The QA of the plastic couplers (and related trip-pin VS knuckle VS shank relationship) is nowhere near as tight as Kadees... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Never could get the "bent piano wire" to work - the point on the end of the skewer slips between the coup;ers from above and a "twirl" between thumb and fore-finger seperates them - the various clones are a waste of money - stick with the original and best - Kadees Rule! The piano wire reference was to the Alex Jacksons. (although its actually guitar string, thinking about it!) I've already planned to standardise on #58s and it sounds like that will be a good move. Tim, it may be disappointing to you, but the thread indicates that there are many of us who are just as happy using skewers! If you don't like it, then you don't have to go there. Brian I wasn't meaning that I was disappointed in you lot for using skewers, I'm sorry if it came across like that. It was disappointment that (from anecdotal evidence) Kadees don't see to be as reliable or flexible when used hand free as I had hoped (despite having the unrealistic trip pins 8) ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I'm a bit disappointed by all this talk of skewers etc. one of the things that attracted me to NA stuff was remote auto couplers that looked realistic (I can ignore the trip pin) I've previously operated a layout with Alex Jacksons and it was great to have no hand of god and I was looking forward to the same without having to bend lots of piano wire There is also the unprototypical "Kadee shuffle" to consider, and the temptation to switch too quickly- the handbrake may need to be set , airbrake valves closed and doors unlocked before the Switchman returns to the loco, although my deja vu says the last time we discussed this on here it might be prototypical to pull away with hoses still attached and let them come apart on their own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
long island jack Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 watch the video at 6.05 min,does this count as the " kadee shuffle",love them old baldwins Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 watch the video at 6.05 min,does this count as the " kadee shuffle",love them old baldwins http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z56ep5dbSXI Ray Nope, more like a "cheap Bachmann knock-offs, they never couple properly" moment Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxmoore Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I wasn't meaning that I was disappointed in you lot for using skewers, I'm sorry if it came across like that. It was disappointment that (from anecdotal evidence) Kadees don't see to be as reliable or flexible when used hand free as I had hoped (despite having the unrealistic trip pins 8) ) Tim - no worries. I do think that you'll get quite good reliablilty if you stick to the one type of coupler on all stock and religously change every car, to say, Kadee #5s, then use the Kadee height gauge and the Kadee washers to keep everything on the one level. As has been said previously, the plastic "Kadee-compatible" cr*p you get on many cars out-of-the-box does cause a lot of the cureable problems - it is a completely false economy to cross your fingers and hope, if you are seeking reliability. Also, electromagnets are FAR superior to permanent ones. And as Martyn and others have said above, doing it all "non-hands" does result in other non-proto elements. I also used to want "complete hands-off", but since I've got really involved in operations, waybills, two-way radios and "meaningful" switching, I find that using the twiddle-stick really does make stuff more realistic. But that's just for me. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
long island jack Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 David Those Bachmann couplers are really naff,they go straight in to the bin,i like my #5's never had many problems with them. It seems we all have a different view on which way is best,i think it all boils down to individual tastes, if you like the skewer approch go for it,personally tried it didn't work in my situation (but will bear it in mind when planning the next layout)!! like the hands free option using magnets,there my be the odd unprototypical move,which i can live with,and most of the general public who go to exhibition won't know a good one from a bad one,will have a play around a bit more with some magnets to see what i can fit in. thanks for all your feedback Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodshaw Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Dear Rod, Most any magnetic coupler will flick "the wrong way" if: - the trip pin is not correctly aligned relative to track centreline - the magnet is not correctly mounted or oriented relative to track centreline - the magnet is located on a too-tight curve. All issues covered in the Kadee manuals included with couplers and magnets... (This is a case where RTDM is highly advisable... :-) ). NB that most plastic couplers do not officially support the Kadee magnets, and vice versa. The QA of the plastic couplers (and related trip-pin VS knuckle VS shank relationship) is nowhere near as tight as Kadees... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Dear Prof Is RTDM the same as RTFM, or is that a different manual? Meanwhile, back to the skewer... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
long island jack Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Done another video,(sorry about the quality) showing my non-delay magnets,theres no need to adjust the volume,there isn't any,that another story. lirr.WMV Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 watch the video at 6.05 min,does this count as the " kadee shuffle",love them old baldwins Ray I think the SMS at Morrisville is fairly local to Pete, and that a squence featuring the Baldwin, in the next feature, at Pureland appears in Jack Hills blog Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted July 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2012 David Those Bachmann couplers are really naff,they go straight in to the bin,i like my #5's never had many problems with them. It seems we all have a different view on which way is best,i think it all boils down to individual tastes, if you like the skewer approch go for it,personally tried it didn't work in my situation (but will bear it in mind when planning the next layout)!! like the hands free option using magnets,there my be the odd unprototypical move,which i can live with,and most of the general public who go to exhibition won't know a good one from a bad one,will have a play around a bit more with some magnets to see what i can fit in. thanks for all your feedback Ray Ray The hands free uncoupling always impresses many show visitors. Had many a time including enthusiasts ask how we do it. As others say its very much a personal preference but for me and my fellow operators we find the Kadee shuffle much preferred than the hand of god. However there are odd instances when a visiting car(or one of the Kadee fine scale couplers) hasn't had its Kadees set up properly so we do re4sort to using a msall jewellers screwdriver! We will be doing the Kadee shuffle at the Bluebell this weekend but not with the full size locos as they use those dmaned screw link and three link couplings!!! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
long island jack Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Jack Thats where i first came across sms lines,he's got a lot to answer for!!!! Ian have a good weekend,i'm of to Hartlepool (got my wellies) to see Jon Grant's extension(layout that is) and feed his birds! he my need a helping hand or a carming influence,he's got the "layout doctor" with him all weekend,which means there will be trouble!!!!! Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted July 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2012 Have a good swim err good time. Looking forward to seeing Jons layout at some point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Ray The hands free uncoupling always impresses many show visitors. Had many a time including enthusiasts ask how we do it. As others say its very much a personal preference but for me and my fellow operators we find the Kadee shuffle much preferred than the hand of god. However there are odd instances when a visiting car(or one of the Kadee fine scale couplers) hasn't had its Kadees set up properly so we do re4sort to using a msall jewellers screwdriver! We will be doing the Kadee shuffle at the Bluebell this weekend but not with the full size locos as they use those dmaned screw link and three link couplings!!! Ian One point I've just realised is when I first showed a serious interest in Darker than darkside modelling, I only recall seeing one layout that didn't use permanent magnets and a few still used horn 'n hook within set formations. Now we see alot more people using a plain skewer, me included (and each to their own). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 watch the video at 6.05 min,does this count as the " kadee shuffle",love them old baldwins http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z56ep5dbSXI Ray Dear RMWebbers, Either the pin didn't drop, (the brakeman gave the uncoupling lever a good yank to free the pin), or those extended cushioned couplers had exactly the same "gathering-area aligment issues" as model kadees do when trying to couple 2x 70+' centrebeams on 18' radii curves... sounds completely plausible to me... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 The hands free uncoupling always impresses many show visitors. Had many a time including enthusiasts ask how we do it. It does indeed - even more so a few years ago before the N.E.M Kadees were available, and UK modellers far less aware of Kadees... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Tried the skewer last night worked ok only problem i found was couldn't see to uncouple the cars in the siding,if there were cars in front of the one i was trying to uncouple,with magnets i have a marker on the building or beside the track,also because i have restricted access at the front (15'' height) i had to put my head in to see what i was doing. Ray Ray this is the main reason I went to Sergent couplers, on my Miami layout I had a road with vehicles, buildings open lots to lean over (from the front) and potentially for uncoupling at the rear spur, another spur and the main to reach over, so seeing the couplings was never going to be easy read impossible. So using the KD skewer wouldn't work any way the first few times I tried the skewer method I tended to derail everything! With the Sergent uncoupling wand all you have to do is put the wand between the cars and/or loco and tap the top of the coupling and they would uncouple, real quick and real simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodshaw Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 That looks really neat. If you're going to dispense with track magnets and convert all of your stock, well worth considering. Some people sing the praises of McHenry couplers - are they any better than Kadee? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 That looks really neat. If you're going to dispense with track magnets and convert all of your stock, well worth considering. Some people sing the praises of McHenry couplers - are they any better than Kadee? Others have found problems with them - breaking, pins twisting, couplings failing to release - stick with Kadee! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
long island jack Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 All together now,"throw the McHenrys in the bin,in the bin,in the bin" Had a really get day Saturday helping Jon Grant,he threw me in at the deep end switching the yard on the front of "Sweethome Alabama",with hidden magnets (he told me after a hour where they were,anything yellow next to the track!!!) and a kadee uncoupling tool. Jon seams to have a mix of #5 and #58 on his cars where most of them behaved themselves over the magnets, there was the odd one's that didn't,so out with the tool,#5's together uncouple ok first time,but i found a mix of #5 and #58 a bit different couldn't get the tool in between the couplers,#58 on #58 not much of a gap at all,felt a bit of a prat while people were watching (nothing fresh there ) me trying to uncouple!! Most people where fascinated when they uncoupled with the magnets,"how did you do that ,can you show me again" was the cry,after this experience of using magnets and uncoupling tool,i have to say i was more happier with the magnets,and as i said in one of my earlier post, not one of the poeple watching commented on the odd "kadee shuffle" i did try and keep this to a minimum. i had quite a few people asking about kadee's most of the day,my answer to most of them was" stick with kadee's, don't mix other makes,get a uncoupling tool or skewer, a couple of magnets and have a play on a peice of track to find what your happy with,then take it from there. Had brilliant day, my switch engine for most of the time was" Wiregrass central rr 2829" thanks again to Jon if you are reading this it was brill!!! Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Grant 4472 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Had a really get day Saturday helping Jon Grant,he threw me in at the deep end switching the yard on the front of "Sweethome Alabama",with hidden magnets (he told me after a hour where they were,anything yellow next to the track!!!) and a kadee uncoupling tool. Need to know basis, matey. Anyway, it was the layout doctor, Philbo Baggins who steered you towards the front - I'd left you happily working the fiddle yard-to-fiddle yard turn and when I got back you'd disappeared off to the East Yard. Jon seams to have a mix of #5 and #58 on his cars where most of them behaved themselves over the magnets, there was the odd one's that didn't,so out with the tool,#5's together uncouple ok first time,but i found a mix of #5 and #58 a bit different couldn't get the tool in between the couplers,#58 on #58 not much of a gap at all,felt a bit of a prat while people were watching (nothing fresh there ) me trying to uncouple!! No shame in that, you've qualified for the 'green P' plates on your back. You can't beat #5 Kadees for reliability. The #58 couplers are less operationally reliable and sometimes need a bit more oomph to get them to couple up, especially when coupling up to another #58. Most people where fascinated when they uncoupled with the magnets,"how did you do that ,can you show me again" was the cry,after this experience of using magnets and uncoupling tool,i have to say i was more happier with the magnets,and as i said in one of my earlier post, not one of the poeple watching commented on the odd "kadee shuffle" i did try and keep this to a minimum. Regarding the Kadee shuffle, I have 2 attempts then revert to the stick or in extreme cases the hands on approach. I revert directly to the coupling stick if the alternative is to drag a cut of cars all the way down a siding just to get to the uncoupler, only to push it all the way back to the 'spot'. Had brilliant day, my switch engine for most of the time was" Wiregrass central rr 2829"....thanks again to Jon if you are reading this it was brill!!! Thanks for helping and that I can tempt you back for Hull next year. I might be calling earlier as I've just remembered I'm doing Glasgow 2 years running with both the Sweethomes NB....you might find this amusing.....I looked at #2829 today and it's still fitted with the Accumates it came with - oops!! Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Grant 4472 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Long Island Jack at Hartlepool Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted July 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 9, 2012 Ray Glad you enjoyed Jpns layout and his Jadees. Much the same experience mixing Kadee standard and smaller Kadees. Over the weekend we were operating Appledore where all the stock has been fitted with rither Kadee no.5s or NEM nos. 18 - 21. Generally very reliable but the only problem you get with NEM pockets is where they droop so the tails have to be bend up a bit more. Often there is not much you can do about the NEM pocket droop on UK outline stuff but rarely will this be a major problem once the tails have been adjusted.. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
long island jack Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 Jon Wish i new you were taking photo's i'd combed my hair,thats my cover gone now,everyone will know who to look out for,and hide!!! suprising those accumate couplers worked ok,i usually hate them with a passion,it might be an idea to standardize #5 couplings on the east yard turn cars?? if you need any help,give me or baggers a e-mail Ray p.s those picture don't half show you vehicle of well!!!!!!!!!!! p.p.s Ian, thats not really coffee i'm drinking!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted July 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 9, 2012 Ray Didnt even consider that you would have coffee in that cup!! I ordered some beers last week to take iwht us to the Bluebell - Contry Life Old Appledore which would have been quite fitting for the layout. However the brewery had run out of that - will just have to drink them this week when they arrive!!! Ian PS - Kadees always work bettter with beer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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