BClass 86,87 & Mk 3 Coaches wishlisting

[D7100]

A direct plea to our wonderful friends at Barwell.

 

Can you guys now give serious consideration to producing the above items of rolling stock in 00 gauge. (Shrinking to N gauge would be appreciated by many too).

 

Reasons & why now ?

 

You've already committed to the Class 90. And this will no doubt look stunning hauling Mk 3's (or pushing if heading north with DVT).

 

The quality of your Class 85 is second to none. So you have proved you can produce a top quality AC Loco. Your MK 1 & 2 coaches have also been well received (looking forward to the MK2 F's).

 

The multitude of livery's on the Class 86 & 87 over their long careers would allow you to produce many niche specials for the collectors club and retailers special commission's on top the main livery's carried.

 

Some quarters have argued in the past that AC Locos don't or won't sell without suitable overhead line equipment to go with them. Well that issue has and is continuing to be addressed with other manufacture's now producing convincing products.

 

Above are just some of the reasons. Ultimately us modellers appreciate that you are in business and that you have to be pragmatic about your business priority's and needs.

 

When all said and done, I believe and I imagine many modellers of varying eras on this forum and others would repay handsomely with sales returns any product that Bachmann would bring to the table that covers the above models.

 

Now, we know that the manufactures read these forums. So to prove that there is a market out I am going to hand this thread over to my fellow forum members and let them give their views.

 

So come on guys & girls let Bachmann no your views on the above models. This is your chance to convince them to produce what we want.

[griffgriff]

If you're that convinced of the viability of these items why don't you get a 'kicker starter" going? You might pocket yourself a few quid

 

Cheers

 

Griff

[No Decorum]

Andy York has said that AC electrics are steady, rather than spectacular sellers. I'd love an 85 and an 86. Should Bachmann do them? Heljan shows no sign of revising its 86 but there must be lots out there. There might not be room for another. Hornby might well have plans for a retooled 87 - it's overdue. Given that Hornby seems to be able to get things to market quicker than Bachmann at the moment, Hornby might just choose to beat Bachmann to the market. It would be nice but it might be risky. Still, Bachmann has taken the risk with the 90.

 

Heck, yes please, Bachmann. May we have a 92 as well? Don't forget the crew and sprung biffers this time!

[joejab95]

I agree with everything that has been said so far. I think out of all of the locos that have been mentioned, the 87 would be the most likely to taken on by Bachmann as its chassis is very similar to that of the Class 90. As someone has previously said, the 85 is a stunner. Out of all the locos/units on my fleet, it has the most superior running quality in my opinion.(I picked up a brand new baccy 37 last night but still that has nothing on the 85's running quality). I think we should be in for a treat with the 90, hopefully its a success and we may get more AC electrics.

 

With respect to Hornby, their Mk 3 DVT is very good in my opinion. I have two and will probably get a third if I can find the Intercity Swallow version. I also think their Mk2Es are pretty good for the price of them. I don't think their Mk3s are all that bad either considering their age. I think if Hornby did a few tweaks with what they have, we'd be getting a good carriage without a huge jump in prices per carriage.

 

Also another thing to consider, Rapido have now announced the 'prototype HST with mk3s'. If they are successful, I wouldn't bet against them moving into the general mk3 carriage market. 

[jonathan452]

Also noting that in 'N' Dapol have done the Mk3s + DVT.

 

o.k. there is the 'production compromise' of the generic roof vents for the HST and loco hauled versions but otherwise these are hard to beat.

[Fenman]

... Also another thing to consider, Rapido have now announced the 'prototype HST with mk3s'. ...

 

Have they? I thought Locomotion are now very specifically stating that the National Collection in Miniature is to reproduce "motive power". No mention of carriages that I have seen. Though I hope I am wrong!

 

Paul

 

 

PS: Rapido have now announced (see the RMWeb topic on their UK travels) that it is "likely" that they may make the specific Mk3s that would run with the prototype HST. I am thrilled!

[rob D2]

With the more obscure diesels / electrics, even, close to running out,

I'm sure we'll see this in the next five years

[jonathan452]

Though I hope I am wrong!

 

Paul

Also hoping..................................

[wombatofludham]

Heljan's 86 is dead, gone ceased to be. And no, there aren't lots out there, witness the daft prices they fetch on thiefBay. The only ones that you can still get are the arguably undesirable Anglia ones.

 

In any case, it was poorly modelled on the state they were in post 1997 and would require substantial amounts of scalpel time to get them back to any pre-refurbishment state. There is a huge gaping open goal with a beachball-sized football to kick at it in wait for the first model capable of representing the AL6 as originally built through to the 86/2 and 86/4 variants which, with modern moulding technology, should be possible. The real locos are 50 years old, still running, ran alongside the 85s and 90s, have a far greater geographical spread than the Class 71 has ever had (on the WCML alone covering the most populated parts of Britain, and in later years covering East Anglia, and the ECML) and even ran alongside steam in the Stoke-Manchester area in the mid 60s. With 100 having originally been built, they are also the most numerous class of electric loco - and had the same bogies as the Class 85.

 

Before anyone starts saying "Kickstarter" again, I did look into doing one but unfortunately domestic changes mean I don't have the time to properly run it, as it would require a lot of work to set up transparent banking, extensive record keeping and publicity which I simply don't have time to do. In any case, the recent failure of the Nano drone Kickstarter project will put the process back in an already cautious British model fraternity's collective psyche. It would need the surety of an outfit like RevolutioN trains who have an established record, or a retailer, to make a crowdfunding scheme work.

[ThaneofFife]

so now theres at least 3 threads dotted about the forum all basically harping on about the same thing............and we moan at Hornby for lack of joined up thought.

[Flying Pig]

Given the current rush of genuine new announcements, could the OP please give this thread a less misleading title?

[D7100]

Great points Wombat.

 

Can I just point out to  who ever prompted and who ever changed the topic title, Bachmann is who this thread is directed at specifically because of their history regarding AC locos (85 & forthcoming 90) and coaching stock.

 

Now their name is not in the topic title.

 

I would appreciate if it was put back.

 

Thank you. And to all the forum members keep the constructive comments directed to Bachmann coming.

[Rhydgaled]

Can I just point out to  who ever prompted and who ever changed the topic title, Bachmann is who this thread is directed at specifically because of their history regarding AC locos (85 & forthcoming 90) and coaching stock.

 

Now their name is not in the topic title.

 

I would appreciate if it was put back.

The topic is in the Bachmann section of the forum...

 

In any case, the recent failure of the Nano drone Kickstarter project will put the process back

By nano drone project, do you mean 'Zano'? A colleauge had pledged on Kickstarter and took me somewhere (I think the factory) where they were packing Zanos ready to ship and gave us a demonstration of one. It kept crashing, but I'm guessing that was a software problem, the drone itself looked pretty good, and I was looking forward to seeing the finished article when my colleauge got theirs. They never did as far as I know.

 

With respect to Hornby, their Mk 3 DVT is very good in my opinion. I have two and will probably get a third if I can find the Intercity Swallow version. I also think their Mk2Es are pretty good for the price of them. I don't think their Mk3s are all that bad either considering their age. I think if Hornby did a few tweaks with what they have, we'd be getting a good carriage without a huge jump in prices per carriage.

Do Hornby still have the Lima tooling for the FO/TSO? If so, wouldn't it be a good idea for them to resurect the Lima toolings as IC125 mark3s and modify their own (since they don't have a TGS) to represent LHCS mark3s?

[wombatofludham]

By nano drone project, do you mean 'Zano'? A colleauge had pledged on Kickstarter and took me somewhere (I think the factory) where they were packing Zanos ready to ship and gave us a demonstration of one. It kept crashing, but I'm guessing that was a software problem, the drone itself looked pretty good, and I was looking forward to seeing the finished article when my colleauge got theirs. They never did as far as I know.

That's the one, Wales Today had a piece on it which claimed that the drone didn't deliver and that the company had gone under as a result. I can't help thinking that the collapse of the company will set back Kickstarter quite some way with some people and given the comments some were making on this forum about wanting to see a finished product before committing funding and suggesting crowd funding was a risk, I suspect it will be even more difficult to get models funded by crowd sourcing without a retailer or someone with a track record behind the project.

[surfsup]

I've got to say I'd consider having an 87 in my fleet too. There's something I've always liked about the 85/86/87 AC Locos, and 86401 & 87002 does look stunning in their new Caledonian Sleeper scheme. Of course I'd consider a nice and shiny BR Blue and Network SouthEast too.

 

It was also No.26 in this years Wishlist poll - Only beaten by a DMU in terms of non Steam stock and Top of the Diesel/Electrics section. So an 87 is certainly a wanted model!

[Rhydgaled]

It was also No.26 in this years Wishlist poll - Only beaten by a DMU in terms of non Steam stock and Top of the Diesel/Electrics section. So an 87 is certainly a wanted model!

Are the results of the RMWeb wishlist poll publiclly available then? I can't seem to find a link.

[GordonC]

the results were posted on the Model Rail Facebook page ... I haven't seen them anywhere else yet

[slg]

An accurate loco hauled mk3 coach would be very welcome, as something will need to go between a 47/7 and a DBSO. 

[D7100]

Well pointed out slg.

 

I had forgotten about the forth coming DBSO & already released 47/7's.

 

Another reason for Bachmann to consider the MK3 Coach.

[sub39h]

Do Hornby still have the Lima tooling for the FO/TSO? If so, wouldn't it be a good idea for them to resurect the Lima toolings as IC125 mark3s and modify their own (since they don't have a TGS) to represent LHCS mark3s?

 

The problem is that the LHCS Mk3 buffet they have also used a rehashed version of the Lima tooling! So then you'd be relying on Hornby TSOs/FOs, but a Lima buffet! 

 

Heljan's 86 is dead, gone ceased to be. And no, there aren't lots out there, witness the daft prices they fetch on thiefBay. The only ones that you can still get are the arguably undesirable Anglia ones.

 

I emailed Heljan about their Class 86 and they said they hadn't ruled out reissuing it. I hope they do do a minor retool of it though. The pantograph doesn't bother me and I think they made a reasonable practical concession by making it larger, but the body side error mainly on one side only is a little less forgiveable. Either way, I do really like my INTERCITY Swallow one (and defo glad I managed to snap it up new before prices got silly), and would defo consider ones in parcels/RES, RfD or NSE liveries. 

[Gerald Henriksen]

Are the results of the RMWeb wishlist poll publiclly available then? I can't seem to find a link.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105432-results-the-wishlist-poll-2015/

[Rhydgaled]

The problem is that the LHCS Mk3 buffet they have also used a rehashed version of the Lima tooling! So then you'd be relying on Hornby TSOs/FOs, but a Lima buffet!

Ah. I must confess to not knowing much about the various types of buffet coaches in existance (both in model form and in real life)*. I know there are a bunch of different types of buffet car (some less capable of providing Pullman meals than others) but have no idea how many versions there are and how to recognise them (not counting the micro-buffets, which are obviously different). Did Lima do both IC125 and LHCS versions of the buffet, or is the Limby one actually an IC125 design anyway (in which case how hard would it be for Hornby to duplicate their TSO/FO tooling and modify one to make a new LHCS buffet)? I know there are four full-height windows on one tooling used by Hornby and three on the other, but that's about as far as it goes.

 

* actually, I probably know very little about coaching stock in general compared to most pepole on here, I probably wouldn't be able to tell LHCS mrk3s from IC125 ones, the only difference I know about on the real thing is that one has 3-phase ETS (I think the IC125, but I could be the wrong way round) and the other uses a single-phase power supply

[frobisher]

The major benefit Hornby would have in resurrecting the Lima TSO body shell would be that it doesn't have the CDL fittings present. With the newer bogies and flush glazing treatment the TGS got, it should sit well enough within the range.

[sub39h]

Ah. I must confess to not knowing much about the various types of buffet coaches in existance (both in model form and in real life)*. I know there are a bunch of different types of buffet car (some less capable of providing Pullman meals than others) but have no idea how many versions there are and how to recognise them (not counting the micro-buffets, which are obviously different). Did Lima do both IC125 and LHCS versions of the buffet, or is the Limby one actually an IC125 design anyway (in which case how hard would it be for Hornby to duplicate their TSO/FO tooling and modify one to make a new LHCS buffet)? I know there are four full-height windows on one tooling used by Hornby and three on the other, but that's about as far as it goes.

 

* actually, I probably know very little about coaching stock in general compared to most pepole on here, I probably wouldn't be able to tell LHCS mrk3s from IC125 ones, the only difference I know about on the real thing is that one has 3-phase ETS (I think the IC125, but I could be the wrong way round) and the other uses a single-phase power supply

The original Lima tooling was for a HST TRFB (with three large windows), but was modified to provide an LHCS RFM (with 4 large windows).

 

Hornby have repainted it and tried to pass it off as a HST TRSB (with 4 large windows), but this would only be correct for some of the Grand Central buffet cars which were LHCS but converted back.

 

It has never been painted in INTERCITY colours but I can't imagine one is far away. Hopefully another DVT too. I already have one but would like another.

 

At least with the buffet coach and the DVT you could run Mk2E TSO/FOs and get a vaguely realistic WCML rake.

[griffgriff]

Heljan's 86 is dead, gone ceased to be. And no, there aren't lots out there, witness the daft prices they fetch on thiefBay. The only ones that you can still get are the arguably undesirable Anglia ones.

 

In any case, it was poorly modelled on the state they were in post 1997 and would require substantial amounts of scalpel time to get them back to any pre-refurbishment state. There is a huge gaping open goal with a beachball-sized football to kick at it in wait for the first model capable of representing the AL6 as originally built through to the 86/2 and 86/4 variants which, with modern moulding technology, should be possible. The real locos are 50 years old, still running, ran alongside the 85s and 90s, have a far greater geographical spread than the Class 71 has ever had (on the WCML alone covering the most populated parts of Britain, and in later years covering East Anglia, and the ECML) and even ran alongside steam in the Stoke-Manchester area in the mid 60s. With 100 having originally been built, they are also the most numerous class of electric loco - and had the same bogies as the Class 85.

 

Before anyone starts saying "Kickstarter" again, I did look into doing one but unfortunately domestic changes mean I don't have the time to properly run it, as it would require a lot of work to set up transparent banking, extensive record keeping and publicity which I simply don't have time to do. In any case, the recent failure of the Nano drone Kickstarter project will put the process back in an already cautious British model fraternity's collective psyche. It would need the surety of an outfit like RevolutioN trains who have an established record, or a retailer, to make a crowdfunding scheme work.

Caution's the word. No difference if you're a sole trader or a multinational. If you identify unacceptable risk in a project money isn't going to be invested in it and there may be several very good reasons why manufacturers have not gone mad for electric locomotives in the same way as they have for diesel or steam traction, not least the fickleness of the market. At the end of the day it's easy to throw money around that isn't yours and those shareholders need to be kept happy.

 

Cheers Griff