In Praise of Bachmann Older 00 Models.

[John Tomlinson]

Its not that long ago that Bachmann would supply replacement wheelsets for the old split chassis B1, and indeed they may still do so.

 

Despite the sneering of many, I've found that with a bit of effort in maintenance these locos can be made to work fine in the context of a mainline model railway, although doubtless their slow speed ablilities are not to current standards for those with shunting layouts. Having done a fair bit of detailing work on the bodies of my two, I would be very reluctant to change.

 

John.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The last  split chassis B1 I had operating conceded nothing in slow speed smoothness to the Bachmann and Hornby current versions which it ran alongside, (all with Lenz decoders) the split chassis can motor was a good unit, never had one fail! (As a result I don't know how it is wound, never yet opened one up.)

 

Most of my old bodies from split chassis purchases made years ago are still running, on the new replacement or best alternative mechanism that will fit, because they have been 'worked on' to represent appropriately allocated locos. The new bodies sell on relatively easily, to folks building their own mechanism, or who have dropped a soldering iron or the model, or whatever.

[micklner]

B1 dire chassis , latest one ok Body still good , Tender poor

V2     """"""""",      """""", body dreadful, Tender poor, new version awaits. Would I  buy one doubtful.

V1    """"""",    new version awaits, body dire wouldn't but another until body updated.

J39   """"", nothing announced re chassis, body 6/10 , Tender as on all of above 5/10 at best Compare Bachmanns offerings on above with the e.g Hornby B1 version light year ahead.

J72 chassis ok ish some noisy, Body excellent using the Mainline/ Palitoy based  Moulding.

 

A2 8/10 some a naff details prominent seams on Boiler , some sit down at the rear under cab, Tender not as good as similar Hornby versions. Strange BR green and Black (why) handrails on LNER/BR Apple Green versions. Chassis good and has been used by me on Thompson conversions. Shame you cant buy them separately.

 

A4 no thanks, years out of date even with the new chassis compared to Hornby version.

[robmcg]

Some mention has been made of upgrading the original Mainline-sourced Scots and the Nelsons, and I have indulged myself by photo-editing an original Scot with a modern chassis to the standard of say a new Hornby SR S15 with crosshead-driven vacuum pump, shown here in a station vaguely resembling some of the older Midland examples, Birmingham New Street or Nottingham Victoria come to mind.

 

This gives an idea perhaps of how a super-detail version might look, the body is still the Bachmann 1992 version, ex-Mainline, but with something like typical modern 00 chassis detail.

 

 

 

I have also made the bogie wheels more like real width, as per some finescale 00 offerings I have seen, as in this second picture, a rebuilt Scot with a Wills chassis (I think, not sure, it's in the mail as I write, from, you guessed it, Gostude...

 

[Caledonian]

 

J72 chassis ok ish some noisy, Body excellent using the Mainline/ Palitoy based  Moulding.

 

 

 

Any word of the new chassis for the J72 which Bachmann announced some time ago? I remain astonished at how excellent the body of my Mainline one is, even by modern standards. I had some trouble coaxing good running out of the chassis until one day there was an unexplained click and since then its been fine. Nevertheless I'd feel a lot more comfortable with a new one under the bonnet.

[robmcg]

Any word of the new chassis for the J72 which Bachmann announced some time ago? I remain astonished at how excellent the body of my Mainline one is, even by modern standards. I had some trouble coaxing good running out of the chassis until one day there was an unexplained click and since then its been fine. Nevertheless I'd feel a lot more comfortable with a new one under the bonnet.

 

I might be wrong, since I wasn't looking at model railways in 1977-82 but were not the Airfix models of the time reviewed and praised for having very good plastic detail mouldings? I think some of the Hong Kong factory tools were lost after Airfix went broke, but I'm not sure of the details, Palitoy, Mainline, Bachmann and so on picking up some of the pieces, but not the Royal Scot and others made in HK..

 

Photos of the c1980 HK-made Airfix Royal Scot show it to be quite a good model even by today's standards. Coarse flanges and smokebox dart notwithstanding...      Shades of you-know-who and 'design clever'.

 

[John Tomlinson]

Very interesting Rob. I bought one of these for £14.20 in Hamleys of Regent St. sale in February 1982 - I put the receipt in the box! It hasn't had a lot of use, but still runs fine despite its tender drive. I've wondered whether to do an upgrade, such as darken the wheels, close loco to tender gap etc., or leave it as is as a monument to its time.

 

Your post reminded me that the great Iain Rice wrote a book about detailing and improving RTR locos in 1994, published by Irwell, specifically aimed at the then new generation of locos with mouldings from the Far East, which were leaps ahead from what had gone before. The book contains some useful tips even for the present time.

 

John.

[robmcg]

Very interesting Rob. I bought one of these for £14.20 in Hamleys of Regent St. sale in February 1982 - I put the receipt in the box! It hasn't had a lot of use, but still runs fine despite its tender drive. I've wondered whether to do an upgrade, such as darken the wheels, close loco to tender gap etc., or leave it as is as a monument to its time.

 

Your post reminded me that the great Iain Rice wrote a book about detailing and improving RTR locos in 1994, published by Irwell, specifically aimed at the then new generation of locos with mouldings from the Far East, which were leaps ahead from what had gone before. The book contains some useful tips even for the present time.

 

John.

 

I too have wondered about improving such a model but both Bachmann with ex-Mainline tools and Hornby with its rebuilt Scots have done very well for us! So I incline to maybe just improving a couple of things, a new or re-shaped smokebox dart perhaps.

 

There are lots of Royal Scot/Patriot models Airfix Mainline Bachmann and Hornby available second-hand, sometimes very inexpensive... a nice alternative to £140 new model retail prices. I have taken a liking to the original-boiler Scots because of their interesting history, and I admire the rebuilds which were wartime things in many ways.

 

For further interest I just 'created' a 1935-6 Royal Scot 6P No.6170 'British Legion' by photo-editing... No.2 boiler, Stanier cab and other one-off details including taper-boiler with LMS crimson colours    beautiful!      but in wrong department, being a Hornby 'donor'...  call it the revenge of the unsuccessful high-pressure 'Fury'!

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I might be wrong, since I wasn't looking at model railways in 1977-82 but were not the Airfix models of the time reviewed and praised for having very good plastic detail mouldings? I think some of the Hong Kong factory tools were lost after Airfix went broke, but I'm not sure of the details, Palitoy, Mainline, Bachmann and so on picking up some of the pieces...

 We are still be waiting for an insider to give us the full dirt on the 'dance of the tools' used in HK productions. Whatever, at first release the Mainline, Airfix, and slightly later Replica, HK manufactured items generally got a warm welcome for appearance, even once it turned out that the mechanisms were usually not of great longevity. Some of the wagons still in Hornby's range derive from Airfix tools and remain good models of the bodywork (the Lowmac is a gem, try scratchbuilding one to that standard); likewise the Airfix origin 2P, 3F, 61XX, N2, which still see production runs with revised drives, somewhat dated but still useful. Bachmann likewise are still running a (fast shrinking) selection of the Mainline tooling in their range.

 

Then again there was always the capability to make good body tooling since plastic bodied OO got underway. There's Bachmann still running a Trix tool for their A4, and if the Triang EM2 / class 77 tools were still in working order I reckon customers would pony up were Hornby to give it a production run.

 

...Iain Rice wrote a book about detailing and improving RTR locos in 1994, published by Irwell, specifically aimed at the then new generation of locos with mouldings from the Far East, which were leaps ahead from what had gone before. The book contains some useful tips even for the present time...

 Or even a whole series of such books, illustrating what could be done with all the RTR of the time, locos, wagons, coaches etc. In illustrating just how far RTR OO had moved forward I recall a line to the effect that 'the model's specification matches what would have been a model engineering exhibition prize winner not so very long ago'. (I think that  was of the Replica B1.)

[Andy Y]

 We are still be waiting for an insider to give us the full dirt on the 'dance of the tools' used in HK productions. Whatever, at first release the Mainline, Airfix, and slightly later Replica, HK manufactured items generally got a warm welcome for appearance, even once it turned out that the mechanisms were usually not of great longevity. Some of the wagons still in Hornby's range derive from Airfix tools and remain good models of the bodywork (the Lowmac is a gem, try scratchbuilding one to that standard); likewise the Airfix origin 2P, 3F, 61XX, N2, which still see production runs with revised drives, somewhat dated but still useful. Bachmann likewise are still running a (fast shrinking) selection of the Mainline tooling in their range.

 

Then again there was always the capability to make good body tooling since plastic bodied OO got underway. There's Bachmann still running a Trix tool for their A4, and if the Triang EM2 / class 77 tools were still in working order I reckon customers would pony up were Hornby to give it a production run.

 

 

 

Response from Bachmann

 

There is no secrecy element to this. The Mainline Railways tools (part of the Palitoy organisation in Coalville, Leicestershire) were all produced by Kader (and for reasons best known to Palitoy owned by Kader) and when Palitoy closed down in 1985 its remaining assets, including the name Mainline Railways were sold to Dapol. However, as Palitoy did not own their own tooling, it remained with Kader. Kader then produced some of the former Mainline Railways range for Replica Railways before deciding to establish its own British based company in Leicestershire in 1989 which became Bachmann Europe Plc. For a short time some tools were used by the new Bachmann Branchline range whilst others continued to be used by Replica. Once the contract with Replica had come to an end, these models were included in the Bachmann Branchline range (the B1 being an example that appeared in both Replica and Bachmann boxes).

 

Where the confusion arises is that Mainline also acquired in 1981 the former Airfix Railways (also known as GMR for a short  period) range which had been produced in Hong Kong by Sanda Kan or Cheong Tak (who produced only a small number of models compared to Sanda Kan – 4F, Royal Scot and Stanier coaches). Of the Cheong Tak tools only the 4F has been produced – what happened to the Royal Scot tooling is not known. Some of the former Airfix models appeared in Mainline boxes (the N2 being one example). When the assets were sold to Dapol, the Airfix (Sanda Kan) tooling transferred to Dapol – these were subsequently sold on to Hornby.

 

The Class  56 appears to have been a Sanda Kan  model and did not transfer to Bachmann. Only two versions of it were made by Mainline and it appeared in Dapol boxes for a while before being sold to Hornby with the ex-Airfix tooling in 1996.

 

Where further confusion arises is that Dapol cleared the Palitoy factory of all the components (bodies, chassis etc) that remained in stock at the time of acquisition. It is not unknown for a Class 56 to be marked Mainline on the chassis but in a Dapol box. I know, I have one! 

 

It may be worth pointing out that in every case the chassis were improved when they changed hands. After Bachmann came into existence in the UK – all the chassis were upgraded before each model was reintroduced.

 

For a full explanation into all of these product ranges and their availability under different ownership, Pat Hammond has done a fantastic job of recording it all in Ramsay’s British Model Trains Catalogue. It is the most used book in our office!

 

Dennis Lovett

Public Relations Manager

Bachmann Europe Plc

 

[railroadbill]

Very interesting thread to see how the range developed.  I still have several Mainline locos with the original chassis. They tend to get run just occasionally so haven't worn out just yet. :-)

 

 

 

 

This one got screw link coupling, sprung buffers, finer boiler lining, real coal, the stuff we used to do to upgrade commercial models. - and renumbering to an S&D loco,   to be part of a collection of  those.  Much later I found out that 75027 had been painted green by the time  it reached the S&D  but in all the colour pics I'd seen of it it was so dirty that it looked black.... :-)    but the model's livery is still ok as that's how  it was  originally.  Saw the original preserved on the Bluebell some years ago.

 

While there have been  better 4MT models released more recently, I've kept this one as I'm quite fond of it having done stuff to it.

 

Still runs ok, doesn't stall anywhere, obviously not as good slow running as a newer mechanism. Does make a sort of chuffing noise as it runs though (basic steam sound!)

 

 

Just to prove it's been on the layout.... (and pulling mainline ex-lms  coaches).

[Jaggzuk]

Just come across your work Rob and in particular the images on Facebook and I think they are stunning.  The mix of real RTR and digital is quite sublime and I have to say some of the images remind me of the great railway art painters; even

 had me looking for the hidden mouse on some occasions ;-)

[robmcg]

I'm sure Terence would approve...     

 

Another tribute to old Bachmann models here, entitled 'The LMS Way', subtitled, 'Full speed ahead James and don't spare the horses'.  Highly original. Not!  

Royal Scot 6134 'The Cheshire Regiment' at speed.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

[No Decorum]

Very interesting thread to see how the range developed.  I still have several Mainline locos with the original chassis. They tend to get run just occasionally so haven't worn out just yet. :-)

 

 

 

class 4 shelf.jpg

 

This one got screw link coupling, sprung buffers, finer boiler lining, real coal, the stuff we used to do to upgrade commercial models. - and renumbering to an S&D loco,   to be part of a collection of  those.  Much later I found out that 75027 had been painted green by the time  it reached the S&D  but in all the colour pics I'd seen of it it was so dirty that it looked black.... :-)    but the model's livery is still ok as that's how  it was  originally.  Saw the original preserved on the Bluebell some years ago.

 

While there have been  better 4MT models released more recently, I've kept this one as I'm quite fond of it having done stuff to it.

 

Still runs ok, doesn't stall anywhere, obviously not as good slow running as a newer mechanism. Does make a sort of chuffing noise as it runs though (basic steam sound!)

 

mainline class 4 platform.jpg

 

Just to prove it's been on the layout.... (and pulling mainline ex-lms  coaches).

I love the Standard 4 4-6-0s. When I saw the very first Mainline one, I thought it was how a model locomotive should look. I never went along with the chorus of delight which greeted the Airfix models. Admittedly, the first green models had a powdery finish which was even worse than Hornby’s current offering but it was soon replaced by a finish which was superior (IMHO) to most of today’s. I ended up with thirteen, including Hornby ones, before I managed to stop.

 

I have a lovely memory of many years ago, when I ran the entire layout one afternoon with only Standard 4s. Double chimney, large tender and green for the fancy express down to single chimney, small tender and black for the short goods. Just for the hell of it and just for fun.

[Sandhole]

My original Mainline 4MT was, quite literally run into the ground!! My mate Mike and myself each rebuilt the valve gear when the rivets went. The powerdrive worked very well, it was the wheels and axle guides that wore out!

 As for the Airfix Scot, I have three. Each is remotored with the Bhuler motored replacement chassis. The body is, I think, still excellent and I am very happy with mine. All bar one have a little extra detail and a repaint and haul more than the straight Bachmann examples.

 The Mainline body was put on a replacement Mainline chassis, still with the pancake motor so the old lady still exists, sort of! Incidently, she was the first conversion I did using Crownline bits. Namely a Standard double chimney to make 75026. She had a double chimney and the small tender and worked in my north west modelling area.

      Chris.

[darren01]

My seven Ivartt tanks are all still running well , even the one that has no silver left on its wheels.

Mind you i did buy this one when it first came out, the N classes i have seem to run better now and just seem to get better.

I only have one main line loco,  collett goods, still runs and sounds like a coffee grinder.

Still got a J72 that died a few years ago, the body shell is good and one day i may do something with it .

[SRman]

I dug out my Standard 4MT (split chassis version) to see if it still runs nicely, with a view to tackling the job of fitting a decoder. I want to put this one back into service because it is the first really decent weathering job i did on a steam loco. However, even after following my own advice, I found that the rear axle in particular was wobbling quite a bit; probably not too badly but it stands out more nowadays in comparison with the newer mechanisms.

I decided to put it back into the "Maybe Later" basket!

I do have some replacement axle centres from Peter's Spares, so it may be worth investigating using one of those to see if that improves the wobble (as in reducing it!), but that, too, can wait until I feel more inclined to play around with the chassis then test it again.

[Hroth]

My oldest Bachmann loco is a Standard 4MT 4-6-0 single chimney/small tender.  I prefer the type to the Standard 5s - they don't look as thuggish!  Very much of the split chassis era, its developed a considerable roll and is in danger of getting a nameplate for its layout nickname "Wobbly Bob"!   I've no plans to do anything about rectifying it, its not a candidate for DCChood and once it gets to the point of locking up/throwing itself off the tracks, it'll become a static loco, lurking at the back of the shed on high days and holidays.

 

But its still a nice loco!

[robmcg]

What is now quite an old model and still currently for sale prices here and there, the beautiful LMS Compound 4P...

 

my version, photo-edited late crest 41157 overhauled c1957 withdrawn in 1960  

 

superb bit of 'older?' modelling Bachmann.

 

Just out-shopped

 

Photoshopped  well PSP6 actually...

 

Cheers