So who is the "designer" nowadays?

[28XX]

I like to advocate the "form follows function" design philosophy. The taper barrel boiler is a case in point. Reducing the diameter saves weight and improves visibility without reducing steam generation because the flue gasses are cooling as they travel along the boiler. And they look so much better IMHO than a parallel boiler.

[Oakydoke]

Just how many of those lauded CME's from days of old, were mainly the senior head of department who took all the plaudits for the work of their subordinates?

I'm confident that most of them were heavily involved in design policy and had a strong hand in imposing their personal vision on such matters, but running the engineering side of a steam railway could never have been a single handed job.

 

There are other subject areas where famous figures are given historical credit for some achievement or other, when they were in fact the leader, Lord, general, head etc of men/women who actually did the work or made the difference.

After all, we are talking of an era where the (social) class structure was very strong and hierarchies and deference to "superiors" was an unquestioned way of life.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Do we remember the names of CMEs because a list always appeared in the Ian Allan ABCs?

 

Those with more influence, eg General Managers, are often forgotten.

 

Stanier vs Josiah Stamp

Maunsell vs Herbert Walker

Collett vs Felix Pole

 

Can't remember who the LNER GM was when Gresley was around; Wedgewood?????

[rab]

The Fell?

 

Ed

OK. Time to show my ignorance.

What is\was the fell???

[jjb1970]

There are still chief engineers in many companies. Major engine programs will have a chief engineer who is responsible for ensuring the engine program is delivered. Ditto for much of the electrical package. Modern complex systems are, well, complex and the systems integration is rather challenging. The designs are not done by committee so much as the system is broken down into sub-systems and each element of the package will be controlled by a suitable specialist who is themselves part of a multi-disciplined team. And as the station master points out, there are whole levels of assurance that have responsibility for signing off on the designs. The designs tend to stem from business led functional requirements. In a sense this is little different to the way it has always been but now we tend not to have well known CEs. In todays world it would be all but impossible for a single person to take ownership of a major program and the complexity is orders of magnitude more complex than in the steam era.

[Ron Ron Ron]

OK. Time to show my ignorance.

What is\was the fell???

 

 

[Fat Controller]

Many of the great names of 19th/ early 20th century engineering (not particularily railways) went on to found engineering consultancies which carried on their work on a larger scale; Sir William Arrol (2nd Tay bridge and Forth rail bridge) being one, Sir william Halcrow another. I can imagine that Brunel, had he not died so tragically young, would have founded his own.

[billbedford]

Some that spring to mind are Sir Alec Issigoniss ,BMC , Harris Mann, and David Basch BL, Roy Axe Chrysler and rover and Wayne Cherry ,Vauxhall

 

 

By all accounts Issigoniss was an anti-engineer.

[Talltim]

Chris Bangle is the most recent named car designer I can think of, and he's been out of the game for 7 years

[Talltim]

Of course there are some world famous designers in the modern age, Elon Musk, Sergey Brin, Larry Page, Mark Zuckerberg. They've engineered huge entities used by more people than any of the Victorian engineers.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Chris Bangle is the most recent named car designer I can think of, and he's been out of the game for 7 years

 

 

More infamous than famous.

The guy credited with ruining BMW's style credentials in the noughties.

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Cars?

Ian Callum -  Aston Martin DB9 and Jaguar F-Type are on his list of creations.

Gordon Murray - McClaren.

[Oldddudders]

The late William Towns- Lagonda and others.

[Arun Sharma]

An interesting thread. Regarding electrical engineers - or perhaps engineers who designed electric locos, there are two who spring to mind. Raworth [on the SR] who designed the guts of CC1 and CC2 & probably most of 20003 and Fairburn who designed a great chunk of 10000 and 10001. Arguably Raworth is better known as a designer in conjunction with Bulleid [The locos are often referred to as Bulleid-Raworths] and Fairburn is better known for his [or possibly really Ivatt's] 2-6-4T. 

As far as draughtsmen go, it is no secret that Mr [?]Anderson[?] the chief draughtsman at Derby was responsible for many of the MR's later locos and his strangely prone to failure small axleboxes were perpetuated in the designs of several ostensible CMEs of that railway.

 

It does suggest that whoever was nominally the CME tended to pick up the prestige, brickbats and knighthoods but may never have put pen to drawing board himself other than in the most general way. 

 

It is after all possible that all of the experimental bits of the "Gresley" A1, A3/4 & P2 could have been actually designed by his understudy and deputy, one OVS Bulleid!

[edcayton]

OK. Time to show my ignorance.

What is\was the fell???

 

If you google "fell diesel loco" you will find all you need.  Sorry, I don't know how to do links.

 

Ed

[billbedford]

It is after all possible that all of the experimental bits of the "Gresley" A1, A3/4 & P2 could have been actually designed by his understudy and deputy, one OVS Bulleid!

 

 

I thought all the controversial parts of the Gresley locos were claimed and patented by the Great Man himself.

[Pacific231G]

Probably not far from the truth. IKB and his ilk designed trains, ships and bridges from his head and put them down on paper.  He didn't need a computer to  impart the latest drag figures, fuel use or costing's combined with H & S requirements; he designed the thing to work as he envisioned.  A long way from today where an entry into a computer eventually ends up as the finished article which hopefully will turn out successfully as those in the industry try and tell us.

 

Brian.

Actually IKB though a great civil engineer was a fairly rotten locomotive engineer. He did though have the good sense to recruit Daniel Gooch as the GWR's first Superintendent of Locomotive Engines. It might not have been a good idea to mention Brunel's costings around any of the investors in the various projects he was involved with !!

 

A computer is only a tool just like  a slide rule or a set of log tables and though it can help the process enormously it can design nothing. That still requires an engineer.

[Fat Controller]

Do we remember the names of CMEs because a list always appeared in the Ian Allan ABCs?

 

Those with more influence, eg General Managers, are often forgotten.

 

Stanier vs Josiah Stamp

Maunsell vs Herbert Walker

Collett vs Felix Pole

 

Can't remember who the LNER GM was when Gresley was around; Wedgewood?????

It was Ralph Wedgewood, though I had to look quite hard to find that out. The Wikipedia entry on the LNER contains a long list of non-railway assets, and another of significant accidents. The CMEEs are listed, with brief biographical details, but of the General Managers, who had to raise the monies to pay for it all, there is no mention.

[trisonic]

I always liked (T.W.) William Worsdell. Worked at LNWR, Pennsylvania RR,  GER, NER.

 

Car Designers: I appreciate the, just retired, GM Design head, Ed Welburn.  Re-inspired Car design  in Detroit. http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2016/04/07/ed-welburn-retires-head-gm-design/82708022/

 

Best, Pete.

[russ p]

I hadn't known that he worked on the Pennsylvania

[Fat Controller]

I hadn't known that he worked on the Pennsylvania

That wasn't the Pennsylvania near Washington, was it?

[Oldddudders]

American railroads flirted with industrial designers in the streamliner era before the Hitler war and into the '50s. 

 

I think it was the most prolific of these, Otto Kuhler, who worked with Alco among others, who once sent Trains Magazine a telegram. The message was something like :

 

"Have attained 80 years of age. Do not recommend it. Will not do so again."

[62613]

I thought all the controversial parts of the Gresley locos were claimed and patented by the Great Man himself.

One initiative that was definitely Bullied's was the fitting of double Kylchap exhausts to four of the A4s, including Mallard. The story is that Gresley wasn't convinced about their benefits, but that Bullied fitted them while temporarily in charge while HNG was at Vitry with Cock o' the North.

 

C.J.Allen in his history of the LNER also pointed out that even after the 1925 exchange between the GWR Castle and A1, it took a lot of persuading by Bert Spencer and Bullied to get him to adopt long-travel long-lap valves.

[brianusa]

 

This rather famous picture is intriguing as how did the train get on the second floor in the first place?

 

Brian.

[Oldddudders]

This rather famous picture is intriguing as how did the train get on the second floor in the first place?

 

Brian.

 

Because that's where the rails were and are! Next Wednesday, all being well, I will alight from a TGV in that station, Paris Montparnasse, and descend several flights to the street.