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009 RTR British trains

Minitrains Bagnall Peco 009




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#1 Nile

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 12:52

With the recent release of the Minitrains Bagnall loco (probably the first mass produced 009 model of a British loco) there is now enough RTR stock available to run a British 009 model railway. With plenty of 009 track available from Peco it couldn't be easier now to model a narrow gauge railway in a small space.

Here are some examples from last night's test running at Willesden Junction.

 

My Bagnall with some Peco Glyn Valley coaches and brake van.

009_1.JPG

 

Another Bagnall with Peco L&B wagons and Glyn Valley brake van.

009_2.JPG


Edited by Nile, 27 January 2017 - 22:24 .

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#2 Southwold

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 14:00

I gave up OO9 because of the lack of British RTR. Perhaps I should have waited instead of going O16.5!

 

Ken



#3 bertiedog

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 21:21

Not exactly a blaze of publicity about the release of this model,is there!, not mentioned on RM web till this posting as far as I can see. With the new L&B 262 from Heljan, this 040 could be justified on the L&B as they used very closely related locos on the construction of the original line.

What is the running like with such a short wheelbase? Has it a flywheel as the others have?

 

Stephen


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#4 PaulRhB

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 21:35

You can see the flywheel in the lower picture :)
It's based on Charles Insley's winning entry in the competition to design a UK model to use the existing chassis.
As to blaze of publicity, Minitrains doesn't seem to do that but with the prolific number of new locos I guess the market is at the level Andreas can supply comfortably. As it's a sideline to his main business I guess he wants to keep it that way.

#5 Nile

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 22:25

Minitrains has a fairly low profile in this country outside the narrow gauge community, and this is their first British outline model as detailed by Paul above.

We had both locos running on Sand Point at Broadstairs last weekend where they performed perfectly, with smooth and slow running possible. As you can see from the photos they can handle a prototypical load with ease.

There are a few UK stockists around, such as Invicta Rail.


Edited by Nile, 03 December 2016 - 22:26 .


#6 Stevelewis

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 22:57

Minitrains has a fairly low profile in this country outside the narrow gauge community, and this is their first British outline model as detailed by Paul above.

We had both locos running on Sand Point at Broadstairs last weekend where they performed perfectly, with smooth and slow running possible. As you can see from the photos they can handle a prototypical load with ease.

There are a few UK stockists around, such as Invicta Rail.

Arcadia  Rail,  Gaugemaster,  also   £115  at  G master  2 variants in  stock,  not  sure  about  Arcadia stock


Edited by Stevelewis, 03 December 2016 - 23:02 .


#7 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 10:27

Some companies seem to prefer tomake loud statements about products they intend to produce, but then you have to wait years to see them in reality. Minitrains work by getting on with the job of designing and then producing models. They have done something similar with new French models, by asking what people want ,and then getting on with it. Having said that , I will be intersted to see those new models.

Only problem with some Minitrains models is scale, but that does not seem to bother some OO9 modellers. There is a lot of rubber scaling/gauging, but if you are happy with that then I won't grumble.

This new loco does look nice, and will help the renewed interest in OO9 layouts.

One warning for those who were not keen on the old wwarren type fun layouts seen over the years, they will be back. They are fun, and probably get more people to try OO9.

 

Just reading the first post, and I wonder what some consider is definition of mass production. Minitrains produce models in relatively small batches which is one reason they succeed, but remember Fourdees introduced what could still be considered a mass produced model a couple of years ago.

Where Minitrains are scoring well, is price, proving that it is possible to produce models at a lower price than companies who mass produce in China.


Edited by rue_d_etropal, 04 December 2016 - 10:41 .

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#8 PaulRhB

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 10:40

Only problem with some Minitrains models is scale, but that does not seem to bother some OO9 modellers. There is a lot of rubber scaling/gauging.

Not really a problem though is it? and doing it in 009 is no different there to people running OO & HO standard gauge together. At least the NG prototypes often were from whatever was available and you did genuinely get some odd size combinations.
There's a section of the market that likes scale modelling and a section that just likes running trains, both go to the same shows so it's all valid rather than needing a 'warning' ;)
;)
Just need to follow Frank's advice ;)
IMG_4517.JPG
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#9 Nile

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:07

When it comes to mass production I'm thinking in terms of production running into four figures (more than 1000 units) which I expect this loco to easily achieve. I would be surprised if any Fourdees model got anywhere near that figure. The other reason I discounted Fourdees is that their models use RTR chassis from another manufacturer (Farish or Kato). The same applies to Paul Windle locos, until recently these were the only 009 RTR locos available apart from one-off commissions.


Edited by Nile, 04 December 2016 - 11:08 .


#10 Hobby

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 18:46

I gave up OO9 because of the lack of British RTR. Perhaps I should have waited instead of going O16.5!

 

Ken

 

I'm trying to reconcile those two statements as, as far as I am aware, there's even less O-16.5 RTR!! ;)


Edited by Hobby, 04 December 2016 - 18:48 .

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#11 Charlie009

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 14:25

As Paul RHB says, the prototype for the Minitrains model was built as a competition entry to find a British outline model to use the standard MinitrainS Krauss mechanism. My model was inspired by 'Excelsior' (late of the Kerry Tramway), known to most in her 0-4-2 configuration but built as an 0-4-0. Because the model was built to fit the chassis unmodified, there were, shall we say, some compromises - notably in width and length, plus the need to use the standard MinitrainS stovepipe funnel to fix the body to the chassis. That said, the model has been released for a couple of weeks and I've already seen several in modified condition on other forums!

Charlie Insley

#12 BR-Green

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 21:36

Not exactly a blaze of publicity about the release of this model,is there!, not mentioned on RM web till this posting as far as I can see. With the new L&B 262 from Heljan, this 040 could be justified on the L&B as they used very closely related locos on the construction of the original line.
What is the running like with such a short wheelbase? Has it a flywheel as the others have?

Stephen

I'm probably going to gaugemaster where they sell them I might be able to get a train there to you want me to see if I can get then to run one a round a layout and tell you how it works?

Edited by BR-Green, 11 December 2016 - 13:20 .


#13 cctransuk

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 21:48

I might be able to get a train there to you want me to see if I can get then to run one a round a layout?

 

Huh ???

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.



#14 BR-Green

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 21:41

You can see the flywheel in the lower picture :)
It's based on Charles Insley's winning entry in the competition to design a UK model to use the existing chassis.
As to blaze of publicity, Minitrains doesn't seem to do that but with the prolific number of new locos I guess the market is at the level Andreas can supply comfortably. As it's a sideline to his main business I guess he wants to keep it that way.


I've heard that this model is quite unrealistic to the real thing apparently the real life loco is nowhere near the height and much more Smaller then the model is ?

#15 PaulRhB

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 21:59

Well unrealistic is a tad strong as it captures the proportions well and it's obvious what it is, but it is scaled up to match the similar stock in 009.
Minitrains has a philosophy, if you don't like it don't buy their products ;) , but they seem to be doing well and producing more new NG models than anyone else.
A scale 009 Bagnall would require a completely new design and smaller motor, the competition that spawned this model was specifically to use the existing Minitrains chassis for a much requested U.K. Prototype.
If you want absolute scale then there are two rtr locos on the way from Heljan & Bachmann or a huge range of kits ;)
Hornby, Bachmann, Electroen all produce basic locos of no accurate prototype too.

Edited by PaulRhB, 11 December 2016 - 22:02 .

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#16 Quarryscapes

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 23:31

Well unrealistic is a tad strong as it captures the proportions well and it's obvious what it is, but it is scaled up to match the similar stock in 009.
Minitrains has a philosophy, if you don't like it don't buy their products ;) , but they seem to be doing well and producing more new NG models than anyone else.
A scale 009 Bagnall would require a completely new design and smaller motor, the competition that spawned this model was specifically to use the existing Minitrains chassis for a much requested U.K. Prototype.
If you want absolute scale then there are two rtr locos on the way from Heljan & Bachmann or a huge range of kits ;)
Hornby, Bachmann, Electroen all produce basic locos of no accurate prototype too.

 

Indeed, a scale model of Excelsior would be truly tiny, but it was not the only size of similar design. Backwoods Miniatures make a version too. 



#17 Nile

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 11:51

Bagnall 'wing tank' locos came in a variety of sizes but the basic shape remained the same, with the characteristic inverted saddle tank at the front. As Charlie states in post #11 this model was inspired by Excelsior and shouldn't be considered as a scale model of it. It could be thought of as a model of a larger version that Bagnall could have built. The cab on this model is well proportioned for 4mm scale. Narrow gauge locos tend to vary in size more than standard gauge ones, due to the greater variety of loading gauges.


Edited by Nile, 21 December 2016 - 21:22 .


#18 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 19:42

PaulRhb

said

 

rue_d_etropal, on 04 Dec 2016 - 10:27, said:snapback.png

Only problem with some Minitrains models is scale, but that does not seem to bother some OO9 modellers. There is a lot of rubber scaling/gauging.

Not really a problem though is it? and doing it in 009 is no different there to people running OO & HO standard gauge together.

 

 

I have not come across many these days mixing OO and HO standard gauge recently. Quite often HO figures are used for OO , but that is not quite the same. Of course those buying the latest British liveried 060 locos produced by Electrotren are mixing scales, but as the prototypes are Spanish broad gauge it is not so noticable, especially when the size of a Terrier or a J72 is taken into account. Standard gauge industrial locos can vary in size like narrow gauge ones. They are often designed to specific locations which may have restritions on height and width.

Rubber gauging and scaling is pretty endemic in  narrow gauge modelling. Nothing wrong with that as long as you are not claiming to be modelling to scale. Advantage of narrow gauge is that loading gauge varied a lot, so when stock moved to a different railway, it might look very different. Part of the charm of narrow gauge.

I have not had a chance to look at the Minitrains USA loco but a friend has told me he thinks it does look underscale, which it is if you are modelling 4mm/ft. Some locos are not so obvious.

There are modellers modelling OO and those modelling HOe, which is why I offer both scales in my 3D printed range. In fact for smaller models it should be HOf using 6.5mm gauge track.



#19 PaulRhB

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 19:56

The other thing with a freelance layout is why couldn't that line have ordered a slightly larger version of a catalogue loco? Hunslet, Bagnall etc would basically do this if asked to tender for real lines to a spec they didn't already produce. ;)

#20 The Dorset Wanderer

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 22:17

New Bagnal and Scargoey(hope that's right or the trolls will get me :no: ) plus Roco and 3D printed on Kato chassis. Modified 3mm brake van plus coaches by Peco,Egger, Parkside and Roco- does that make me a Phillistine? No it makes me a modeller!

Layouts in 3mm- published twice in RM,exhibited twice at Warley, 4mm awaiting detailing and 009 just for the hell of it!!!

I have never had a roundy roundy layout before so I will make one in 009.

Am I a bad person?

No-Just a modeller.

Steve


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#21 tractionman

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 22:52

Bagnal 'wing tank' locos came in a variety of sizes but the basic shape remained the same, with the characteristic inverted saddle tank at the front. As Charlie states in post #11 this model was inspired by Excelsior and shouldn't be considered as a scale model of it. It could be thought of as a model of a larger version that Bagnal could have built. The cab on this model is well proportioned for 4mm scale. Narrow gauge locos tend to vary in size more than standard gauge ones, due to the greater variety of loading gauges.


Would it be possible to get a measurement of the height of the cab, just wondering if the Bagnel might be ok for 5.5mm scale, looks a little like an 18 inch gauge loco?

All the best,

Keith

#22 BR-Green

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 12:37

New Bagnal and Scargoey(hope that's right or the trolls will get me :no: ) plus Roco and 3D printed on Kato chassis. Modified 3mm brake van plus coaches by Peco,Egger, Parkside and Roco- does that make me a Phillistine? No it makes me a modeller!
Layouts in 3mm- published twice in RM,exhibited twice at Warley, 4mm awaiting detailing and 009 just for the hell of it!!!
I have never had a roundy roundy layout before so I will make one in 009.
Am I a bad person?
No-Just a modeller.
Steve


Troll on RMweb you seriously haven't seen Facebook have you, you get trolled for having an opinion over not thinking something is wonderful and the Facebook page

#23 BR-Green

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 12:40

As Paul RHB says, the prototype for the Minitrains model was built as a competition entry to find a British outline model to use the standard MinitrainS Krauss mechanism. My model was inspired by 'Excelsior' (late of the Kerry Tramway), known to most in her 0-4-2 configuration but built as an 0-4-0. Because the model was built to fit the chassis unmodified, there were, shall we say, some compromises - notably in width and length, plus the need to use the standard MinitrainS stovepipe funnel to fix the body to the chassis. That said, the model has been released for a couple of weeks and I've already seen several in modified condition on other forums!

Charlie Insley


Okay I was considering getting one in adapting it to give it so I bunkers because something doesn't seem right to me with a local doesn't have bunkers on it I guess it's not a bad price loco considering it's 100 if I wanted a fourdees one agine The cheapest is 140

#24 cornelius

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 12:51

Would it be possible to get a measurement of the height of the cab, just wondering if the Bagnel might be ok for 5.5mm scale, looks a little like an 18 inch gauge loco?

All the best,

Keith


Rail level to top of cab is 38mm.
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#25 BR-Green

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 14:24

Rail level to top of cab is 38mm.


I take it you have one then ? Is it any good?












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