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Bachmann 8T Cattle Wagon





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#51 Taz

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 22:24

Tim,

I've just measured one of mine. 19' 6" over headstocks. Wheelbase is correct 11' though.

So I don't think they are correct (shame as otherwise they are excellent models).

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#52 TheEngineShed

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:33

So what do you suppose is inside these three cattle wagons? That's a lot of beer, or broccoli for that matter...

http://www.flickr.co...157629255295712

#53 chrisf

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:53

Possibly fresh air. I understand that wagons loaded with cattle were supposed to be marshalled next to the loco.

Chris

#54 rprodgers

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:32

There were certainly cattle vans conveying Irish pigs into the Black Country for slaughter into the early 1960s. There are records of vans going into the Palethorpes siding at Sedgeley Jn to transport pigs to the Palethorpes factory for conversion into sausages.

I'm also told that cattle vans went into Great Bridge yard too, but not necessarily for the same consignee. I'm trying to establish the consignee for the Great Bridge traffic, which is not helped by distant memories of pigs being herded through the streets by people I have spoken to.



possibly some to Marsh & Baxters at Brierley Hill ?

Never understood why at Tipton it was called Sedgeley junction or spelt that way :O

#55 Removed a/c_Phil

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 16:47

There were certainly cattle vans conveying Irish pigs into the Black Country for slaughter into the early 1960s. There are records of vans going into the Palethorpes siding at Sedgeley Jn to transport pigs to the Palethorpes factory for conversion into sausages.

I'm also told that cattle vans went into Great Bridge yard too, but not necessarily for the same consignee. I'm trying to establish the consignee for the Great Bridge traffic, which is not helped by distant memories of pigs being herded through the streets by people I have spoken to.

possibly some to Marsh & Baxters at Brierley Hill ?

Never understood why at Tipton it was called Sedgeley junction or spelt that way :O


Not sure about Marsh & Baxters raw product. It was the otherside of the "bonk" to my interests.

Sedgeley Junction was apparently named that way only by the railway company. I know someone who recovered the original name board (in very poor condition) from the Dudley end of the box, and had a replacement copy of it made to go in their house.

#56 Jon Gwinnett

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 17:52

Found this thread by accident today and was very disappointed to learn of the length issue. Not often in life one is told its too long...

Am I alone in thinking I will have to apply the nelson touch to this news, since I certainly hadn't spotted it by myself and wouldn't have measured the length. As others have said, it's just longer than a van, which is as it should be. I certainly couldn't build or letter an Airfix one to the same standard. (I think they have compromises too, if my memory of Geoff Kent's books serve?)

But if I'm going to accept a 4mm compromise on length, why worry about a track gauge that's only a mm and a bit too narrow. I can feel a wholesale rethink coming on...

#57 TheEngineShed

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 00:42

Possibly fresh air. I understand that wagons loaded with cattle were supposed to be marshalled next to the loco.


Don't believe BR was still transporting cattle at this late date, the photo is from 1967.

#58 Brinkly

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:43

I was always thought that cattle traffic by rail ended in 1975. Plymouth Friary Station in the late 1960s early 1970s had the old goods shed knocked down and a facility to wash cattle wagons built in. I might be wrong, but Dad is fairly certain that his father was still collecting cattle for the estate from Friary in the early 1970s.

Regards,

Nick

#59 Pennine MC

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:50

Don't believe BR was still transporting cattle at this late date, the photo is from 1967.


I cant speak for the wagons in the Flickr shot, but flows to/from Kyle (for Skye) laste until 1971/72 and the Holyhead traffic is now quite celebrated (IIRC finishing in 1975, as Nick mentions)

#60 Jenny Emily

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 20:55

I was always under the impression that cattle wagons lasted long enough in service to get a TOPS classification (VCV IIRC) though I've never seen any evidence of any vans getting the code painted on them.

Did any vans survive later in use with other traffic flows like broccoli or even as barrier wagons?
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#61 Pennine MC

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 21:18

I was always under the impression that cattle wagons lasted long enough in service to get a TOPS classification (VCV IIRC) though I've never seen any evidence of any vans getting the code painted on them.


It was allocated, but the first list of allocations is from around 1974 IIRC, some time before the codes were applied to wagons - this is why a number of types 'got' codes but didnt carry them

Did any vans survive later in use with other traffic flows like broccoli or even as barrier wagons?


Some were used as barriers but I would doubt that any outlasted the vans in their designed use, mainly because by 1975/76 there would be plenty of other vans, more 'standard' in nature, surplus for such use if required.

#62 Wizard of the Moor

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 23:01

Peter Tatlow's new LNER Wagons book (Vol. 4A) mentions that growers of garden peas preferred cattle wagons to ventilated vans when transporting their produce.

That's pre-WW2, mind, so might not apply to the BR wagons.

Now, how to model a load of green peas convincingly...
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#63 34theletterbetweenB&D

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:01

Fresh peas in the pod traditionally went by bushel measure and may well have been transported at one time in baskets and boxes.My guess for the interwar period is that they would have been transported in coarse hessian sacks. Some were still sacked up during the early 1970s at New Covent Garden, though the move to more modern packaging in boxes for movement in chilled vehicles was then underway. The excellent ventilation of a cattle wagon would be welcome as a damp crop like peas left in a confined space for a day or more could easily give rise to heating, as when heaped up grass clippings begin to cook themselves and can even burn. Where's a greengrocer when you need one?

Edited by 34theletterbetweenB&D, 14 April 2012 - 12:02 .

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#64 TheEngineShed

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 15:59

I cant speak for the wagons in the Flickr shot, but flows to/from Kyle (for Skye) laste until 1971/72 and the Holyhead traffic is now quite celebrated (IIRC finishing in 1975, as Nick mentions)


I must have misinterpreted discussions about the general decline of cattle shipped in wagons during the 60s as the end, without considering the exceptions. Thanks for clearing that up. Maybe I will put some cattle in a few of the Bachy wagons...
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#65 Pennine MC

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 18:40

I must have misinterpreted discussions about the general decline of cattle shipped in wagons during the 60s as the end, without considering the exceptions.


Oddly enough, I'm normally one to lessen the relevance of exceptions and favour the typical :)

Another 'grey area' is Northumberland - I have a magazine shot of Alnmouth in 1966, with a *lot* of cattle vans, 'BR Marshalling Yards' has a 1970 pic of a GFYE Clayton at Newcastle Central with two and a brake, and' Railways across the Pennines' has no less than four behind a blue 37 at Wylam in 1972; in the latter two cases, I'm half-inclined to suspect a local pool for barriers with the glue tanks from Hexham, although I wouldnt have thought they'd be needed by then.

#66 hmrspaul

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:39

In September 1966 BR audit listed 906 fitted and 5 unfitted cattle vans.

A very difficult trade requiring local stations to have staff used to handling, watering and feeding the customers. There were entire rule book on carrying livestock, which for example has different dates for sheeting the loaded wagons during the winter dependent on what type of stock was being carried (Cattle vans were a general stock wagon - only the most expensive animals were moved in Special Cattle vans and Horse boxes)

I suspect BR was very pleased to get rid of all but the big bulk moves that lasted into the early 1970s.

I do remember c1965-67 seeing on Derby station a calf head sticking out of a 'mail' sack placed on a flat luggage trolley. Later, when I read the rule book, I learnt that someone had carried the calf precisely as instructed.

Paul Bartlett
http://paulbartlett....io.com/brcattle
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#67 Pennine MC

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:54

I do remember c1965-67 seeing on Derby station a calf head sticking out of a 'mail' sack placed on a flat luggage trolley. Later, when I read the rule book, I learnt that someone had carried the calf precisely as instructed.


Awww, sweet :happy_mini:

#68 buffalo

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:28

...I do remember c1965-67 seeing on Derby station a calf head sticking out of a 'mail' sack placed on a flat luggage trolley. Later, when I read the rule book, I learnt that someone had carried the calf precisely as instructed....

I'm sure someone posted a photo of exactly that a week or two ago (it wasn't you, was it Paul?) but I just can't find it now. Google site search returns nothing for various combinations of calf, calves, sack, trolley :scratchhead: Anyone remember where it was?

Nick

#69 hmrspaul

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 13:07

I'm sure someone posted a photo of exactly that a week or two ago (it wasn't you, was it Paul?) but I just can't find it now. Google site search returns nothing for various combinations of calf, calves, sack, trolley :scratchhead: Anyone remember where it was?

Nick


No. I was at the wrong end of the train to get a snap - just passed it as we arrived at the station, and I was going through to Sheffield.

I very rarely saw loaded livestock wagons. There was a train load at Edinburgh Waverley c1962-3 with Great Northern at the head, I suspect waiting to follow us out - we were on the 14.00. The cattle were loaded across the wagons and jammed in - Dad, a professional railwayman explained this was essential to prevent them going down.

My other memory is probably a similar time, at Waterloo seeing the Canadian Mounties parade in to load a train of horse boxes - they went to Windsor horse show. My main memory is seeing maroon in Waterloo, which was a very green place !

Paul Bartlett

#70 Ben Alder

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 13:40

At the risk of straying slightly off-topic re. cattle wagons, there is a calf being transported in a sack in-this film clip. Changed days.......
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#71 31A

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 21:45

Interesting to see this topic resurrected, with some discussion of alternative traffics for these vehicles - I was wondering whether anything was known of their use as Ale Vans?

There's a picture of one of the ex train ferry cattle vans branded thus at Rugby in 1971 in Robert Hendry's 'British Railway Goods Wagon in Colour', but beyond that I don't know much about their use for this traffic, which could provide a good excuse to use cattle wagons on a layout where they wouldn't otherwise be suitable.

I was wondering if anyone knew where and when, and numbers involved? Were there any other modifications, and how was the load carried, e.g. were the barrels stacked vertically or horizontally, and how many layers of ale barrels could be carried in an 8 ton van?
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#72 Pennine MC

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 22:17

So many questions Steve, and so few answers ;)

#73 31A

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 18:59

So it appears, Ian. Ah well, I thought it was worth a punt, but for now my thirst remains unquenched.







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