Great Western Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 When the railway calls, railwaymen come running, I've dropped plans at 30 minutes notice to book on duty. Okay I was well rewarded for it of course but the railway isn't a job, it's a life as far as I'm concerned. I joined 14 years ago as a Guard, my father was a shunter, his father a Signalman and I believe his father was a driver. I've now left the train crew grade to join the line of Signalman in the family, my son is also showing promise that he'll come on the job wen he's 18, although he has expressed an interest in driving ! I'll sort him out don't worry about that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 What I meant was that the railways now are not run by railwaymen...You'll have come across them the type that deliberately refuse to use railway terms and consider us something off their shoes because we joined a company they hate.Can't disagree with that. "Could you start calling them 'customers' please ?" "You can call them what you like on the publicity, on an accident report they're passengers." "They're customers. They give us money, we give them a service. That makes them customers." "No, that makes them passengers. As opposed to trespassing passengers, trespassers, persons on business, contractors, workforce or other persons" "Says who ?" "Group standard GE/RT8047" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 I quite enjoyed the first episode, very entertaining. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Distance from London to Leeds approximately 183 miles. Not 173 as stated in the programme? If someone could kindly confirm......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted March 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2017 Distance from London to Leeds approximately 183 miles. Not 173 as stated in the programme? If someone could kindly confirm......... 185.7 according to the fourth edition of TRACKmaps that I have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I found the programme quite informative; although why relatively young folk with little or no luggage find it necessary to pack themselves into a lift while ignoring the maximum weight limit, is beyond me. Lets hope they learned their lesson and will use the stairs in future. I also could not understand why KX platform staff would believe a service that had been stuck near Grantham for hours and eventually rescued by a 67, would arrive at Kings Cross as ECS. Where did they think the passengers had gone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Maybe the initial plan was to terminate the train at Peterborough or somewhere similar but circumstances then changed. As always communications are the key. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Rather enjoying this program to be honest, looking forward to next week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foulounoux Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Thoroughly enjoying it and the emphasis on how if one small peice of the puzzle that is the ECML breaks then the impact can be magnified across the network. And l find it refreshing to see employees who enjoy their job being vocal in their enthusiasm. They are obviously bright enough to realise that saying positive things is good for their career. We call it engagement and whilst some may be cynical I'd gladly have them working for me . Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken.W Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Regrettably the availability of mobile 'phones but more particularly things like txting and other online activities has become a rising factor among 'distraction' SPADs - in my view the thing should be banned from being carried in driving cabs or at the very least Drivers should be told not to get them out of their bags while in the cab. That is the case as far as the operator featured here goes. Their policy is mobiles etc must be turned off while driving (not just on silent etc), and be stowed out of sight. The same applies to anyone else authorised to be in the cab. In the event of any incident requiring investigation, mobile records are checked, and management are quite clear any use of a mobile will result in dismissal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeighties Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 It doesn't matter what the bloke may have being doing I bet a fair amount of people on here were commuting before 93 on trains with no headlights driven by a bloke who would roll a fag and be driving ,as I have on the noise of the rails but we knew exactly where we were. But we got you home most of the time on time, and when it came to pay day we got crap money It been a paradox for a while now, although we get a reasonable wage now the job has had the skill factor removed because the new intake doesn't have the experience By gum, there is some real bitterness coming through on your posts. It's a fact of life, things change, not always necessarily for the better, but we all have to adapt and get on with life. Nothing stays the same forever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted March 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2017 Sorry chaps, please explain to an old fellow.........what's a boil in bag!! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
On the block Allan Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 So they are idiots for saying that they would work for nothing and they are idiots for working for a decent wage! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Sorry chaps, please explain to an old fellow.........what's a boil in bag!! Pre 1988, a trainee driver (driver's assistant/secondman) effectively did an "apprenticeship" for several years before completing an intensive 6 month course called an MP12 and then qualifying as a driver. Post 1988, the MP12 was abolished and the qualifying/training period was slashed, meaning folk could come off the street with zero experience and then be driving in a fraction of the time. A quick ready meal, if you like, as opposed to slow roasting for several hours. Hence "boil in the bag". Never really a malicious phrase, just an expression that stuck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
On the block Allan Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 A lot of these make me want to put my foot through the telly! There was one about East coast and some idiot boil in the bag driver banging on about his view from his office window. An HST cab, and saying he'd do the job for nothing! Well the pay you now earn has been fought for over many years so if you have thoughts like that keep them to yourself not blurt them out on national TV Sorry for the rant but it really got to me! Well when I was a secondman there were lots of drivers that would roll a fag whilst driving, but these chaps were real railwaymen not some idiot that has come to the industry becouse it now pays decent money. You could trust these old boys 100% and I learned my trade from them. You don't find a boil in the bag as post 88 men are known in the industry , controlling a heavy class 9 (unbraked freight) down a hill or running at line speed in thick fog . When I joined the railway at 16 I knew the pay was crap but I wanted to be a driver and a railwayman There is no such thing as a railwayman today, it's run by fools Should have added quotes to my post No.38. I'm a newby! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 21, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2017 Sorry chaps, please explain to an old fellow.........what's a boil in bag!! Mike "Boil in the Bag" is a derogatory term used to describe someone who has been given a relatively prized job without working up through the ranks. Traditionally a train driver would have only got to such a position after having passed through the grades of cleaner and fireman, or once steam finished station staff then Guard. Such a process would normally take quite a few years (though in places with high driver turnover such as some EMU depots it could be relatively quick). Some say this provides valuable insight into wider railway operations and generates more loyalty to the industry (as opposed to a specific employer) By contrast a "BITB" driver may have been a shop assistant, a homemaker, a bank clerk, a artist, or just about anything else before they get the role. Traditionalists argue such persons are not as 'good' as time served railwaymen / railwaywomwen and such persons are far too likely to tie the company line or not know what to do when things go wrong. The reality however is that just as you can get rubbish BITB people, you also get plenty of people who have worked through the ranks that are rubbish too - and to claim otherwise is pain nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Traditionally a train driver would have only got to such a position after having passed through the grades of cleaner and fireman, or once steam finished station staff then Guard. I guess it could be different in other parts of the country (although I doubt it), but station staff were never considered to be in the line of promotion to traincrew. I began as a porter/ticket collector at Sutton station, working under Sutton's area manager. After a few months when I decided it wasn't right for me, I had one Hell of a job getting moved "sideways" into the footplate line of promotion. A guard could, of course, progress to driver as he/she was already considered to be traincrew, but you didn't have to be a guard first. I effectively joined BR in 1983 and went straight to driver's assistant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 21, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2017 I guess it could be different in other parts of the country (although I doubt it), but station staff were never considered to be in the line of promotion to traincrew. I began as a porter/ticket collector at Sutton station, working under Sutton's area manager. When I decided it wasn't right for me, I had one Hell of a job getting moved "sideways" into the footplate line of promotion. I agree that station staff are not normally in direct line for a train driving position, but in a heavily unionised environment, internal promotion (even a sideways one) would be preferable to bringing in 'outsiders'. As you say staff shortages may also be a significant factor - IIRC Inner London EMU depots for example usually always had trouble maintaining a full compliment of Drivers / Guards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted March 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2017 I guess it could be different in other parts of the country (although I doubt it), but station staff were never considered to be in the line of promotion to traincrew. I began as a porter/ticket collector at Sutton station, working under Sutton's area manager. After a few months when I decided it wasn't right for me, I had one Hell of a job getting moved "sideways" into the footplate line of promotion. A guard could, of course, progress to driver as he/she was already considered to be traincrew, but you didn't have to be a guard first. I effectively joined BR in 1983 and went straight to driver's assistant. It was probably area dependent, there were few vacancies in the loco in the late 70's so they would take applicants in any position available and then transfer them across when a vacancy arose. It was a 2 way street as many drivers with eyesight/health issues came off the footplate onto platform duties. I know of at least 2 going in either direction. Re BITB. I asked a former driver trainer about whether it was derogatory term or banter and he stated that it was a purely derogatory term and if heard would not be tolerated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Maybe the initial plan was to terminate the train at Peterborough or somewhere similar but circumstances then changed. As always communications are the key. If the passengers had been tipped out somewhere then wouldn't the train have gone straight to Bounds Green rather than bringing it into what was about to become a very congested Kings Cross and then having to find another loco to take it out again? So I was also a little surprised that the platform staff weren't expecting passengers. Wasn't the "HST" being refurbished on last night's episode actually a 225 set? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Re BITB. I asked a former driver trainer about whether it was derogatory term or banter and he stated that it was a purely derogatory term and if heard would not be tolerated. Yeah, you're right... it was derogatory... I was just trying to be diplomatic! I know of no-one that took it to heart, though. One of the non-academic qualifications for working on the railway back then was a very very thick skin... The "easily-offended" didn't usually last long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I noticed another 67 towing a 91+Mk4 set on last night's episode. How many standby locos does the ECML have? and if one train with a broken pantograph can cause over 4000 minutes of delays, with all the financial compensation that entails, what are the economics surrounding adding an extra standby 67 and crew at strategic location, to provide a quicker response? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I had to admit to shouting at the TV a couple of times last night. They really need to stop calling all trains HST's. On another tack, "Tara" was very pretty......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I noticed another 67 towing a 91+Mk4 set on last night's episode. How many standby locos does the ECML have? and if one train with a broken pantograph can cause over 4000 minutes of delays, with all the financial compensation that entails, what are the economics surrounding adding an extra standby 67 and crew at strategic location, to provide a quicker response? Re Tbird there are four at strategic locations (KGX, Doncaster, Newcastle and Edinburgh) were they can be sent out. Tbird are at train crew locations were they can be quickly crewed as a drivers are booked to cover the Tbird. One of the main problems when an incident occurs is getting the Tbird round the service trains that may be behind/in front of the failure and keeping services running on the opposite line. Normally when a 225 fails the passengers are often detrained at the next VTEC station, however when services are busy the set would be dragged to destination or to a location were a set swap can occur, and the defective set then taken to depot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Maybe there is a case for retro fitting DVTs with a 1000hp diesel engine which could be switched on in certain situations and get the train to the nearest station? Please let me know if I am being blatantly naive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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