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009 couplings - and uncoupling





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#1 spikey

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 08:25

At present I'm laying the track for my first foray into 009, and all is good.  But it occurs to me that now is the time to decide what I do about couplings.

 

My one and only loco is a Minitrains Gmeinder diesel, and I currently have 4 x Minitrains "mine wagons".  The "line" is industrial, some bends are just under 9" radius, I won't be getting any bogie wagons, and if I do add a second loco in the future, it'll be another short-wheelbase 0-4-0.

 

I'm not impressed with the Minitrains couplings, and a search on this subject on here has left me confused.  I can make do with fixed rakes of wagons if I have to in order to retain what little hair I have left, but I'd very much like to be able to uncouple the loco remotely and have it couple up reliably.  What's my best bet?

 

(If it would make life any easier for me, I'm not committed to the Minitrains couplings or indeed to the wagons I currently have, as long as I could fit the recommended alternative to the Minitrains Gmeinder.)





#2 SignalArts98

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 13:51

For couplings  I would recommend Greenwich couplings which are a fold up etch that have an arm at the bottom that is wrapped in a fine iron wire so that they can uncoupled by magnets in the track when the fitted vehicle goes over it. They are a little fiddly at first but it gets a little easier once you assembled a few pairs. As its the mine wagons you are taking about, for mine I have used identical couplings to the greenwhich made by a company called  RT models which are smaller and were originally designed for slate wagons. Despite this, they can be used  for the roco mine wagons if the single shank joining the couplings together is cut in half cut with both ends of the couplings fixed into where the original couplings are (seen in picture below). One thing to bear in mind no matter what coupling you use is that they ALL need to be at the same height otherwise they wont engage properly. A suitable coupling height can be found at RT models and, in my opinion, its a nice piece of cast resin that accurately does the job. As for fixed rakes, I would use fine blackened chain from Eileens emporium in the intimidate wagons and the use the rt models/ greenwich couplings at both ends of the rake. Hope this helps!

 

 

Dan


Edited by SignalArts98, 31 May 2017 - 13:59 .

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#3 spikey

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 16:33

.... Hope this helps!

It does indeed, Dan.  Thank you.  Off now to check out Greenwich couplings and RT models ...



#4 spikey

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 19:01

Having now had look at the Greenwich couplings and watched that video, I'm not at all sure that my eyesight and dexterity is still up to that!  Is there really nothing else that works?  Even if I forget about the Minitrains wagons and replace them with something else?



#5 SignalArts98

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 20:35

There`s always the Bemo and Peco 009 couplings ( the latter found on their 009 rtr rolling stock). They are in many ways a bit bulkier than the greenwich types and slightly more expensive but are practically ready assembled. However, they are not as easy to uncouple as the Greenwich types unless you have a ramp to push the hoops up to uncouple but I have seen a modification where a track pin is glued onto theside of the coupling in an L shape which gives it the same functionality as a greenwhich coupler.  The peco type also uses Nem 365 pockets and so could give you options to use a wide range of couplings relating to n gauge. There is also another etched type called Paul Windle couplings and they can be found on Parkside Dundas in the 009 section. I haven't tried them but from what I have heard from a few people is that they are easier to assemble than the Greenwich type. 

 

Dan


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#6 Stevelewis

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 21:42

See my  earlier  post  on  here,  re  Peco now selling   'peg and  Loop'** couplings as  a  spare part   these  will fit  NEM  packets  or  if  this  is  not  fitted  Peco  sell those also,  12  pairs  of  couplings  for  £3.75  see for  example  Hattons 00-9  section.

 

These  are  OK  for  fixed  rakes,,  personally  after  many many years  of  Narrow  gauge   modelling  I  still use  the  couplings fitted  to  Roco/Liliput/Peco  stock

 

** these  are  fitted  to  Peco's  slate  wagons**


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#7 spikey

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 05:53

Thank you gentlemen.  That's really useful information.  I'll get one of those Peco wagons and see if I'm happy with their coupling :)

 

ETA - Sorry chaps but the Peco site doesn't tell me so I have to ask.  With reference to this page https://www.hattons....-peco-009-scale is GR-102 + GR-103 what is called the "hook and peg" type, and is that what they use on all the Peco 009 stock?


Edited by spikey, 01 June 2017 - 06:01 .


#8 Stevelewis

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 07:25

Thank you gentlemen.  That's really useful information.  I'll get one of those Peco wagons and see if I'm happy with their coupling :)

 

ETA - Sorry chaps but the Peco site doesn't tell me so I have to ask.  With reference to this page https://www.hattons....-peco-009-scale is GR-102 + GR-103 what is called the "hook and peg" type, and is that what they use on all the Peco 009 stock?

I have  personally  not  tested  any  as   my current  00-9 layout  is  dormant  at  the  moment  awaiting  hopefully  the  arrival  of  L&B  Motive power  from  Heljan  ( 4.5 years and  counting!!)

I would  however think  the   Peco   Peg & Hooks  would   work  fine on  the  smaller stock  ie  4  wheel  (  caution with  the  Buffered  Glyn Valley 4wl  coaches) 

 

I think it  would  be  necessary  to  test  them  with  the  bogie  stock,  sharper curves may cause a problem

 

The  hook & Peg is  only  fitted  to  Peco slate  wagons,  (  See pics on  Hattons  site  00-9  wagons, these  clearly  show  the  couplings)


Edited by Stevelewis, 01 June 2017 - 07:29 .

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#9 spikey

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 09:13

Thanks Steve.  I've finally managed to find pictures which show me what the Peco "Peg & Loop" couplings look like, but unless I'm missing something obvious, they need the Big Hand From The Sky to couple and uncouple.

 

It seems to me that all I have to do is flog my Minitrains "mine wagons" and replace them with Peco 009 wagons, then in due course get those remotely uncoupling.  I'm happy with that idea, so the final question from me is - will the ordinary (non-slate wagon) Peco 009 wagons couple to and uncouple from my Minitrains Gmeinder, or do I have to change the coupling on that to the Peco 009 standard one?



#10 Stevelewis

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 09:41

Thanks Steve.  I've finally managed to find pictures which show me what the Peco "Peg & Loop" couplings look like, but unless I'm missing something obvious, they need the Big Hand From The Sky to couple and uncouple.

 

It seems to me that all I have to do is flog my Minitrains "mine wagons" and replace them with Peco 009 wagons, then in due course get those remotely uncoupling.  I'm happy with that idea, so the final question from me is - will the ordinary (non-slate wagon) Peco 009 wagons couple to and uncouple from my Minitrains Gmeinder, or do I have to change the coupling on that to the Peco 009 standard one?

 

The  slate  wagon   are  sold  in  sets  of  three   each  set  has  a  pair  of hook & loops  for  the  end  wagons,  they  are  very  light  and  benefit  for additional  weight   to  be 'hidden' in   the  hollow  slate  loads  ( which  are  removeable)  the  pic  on  hattons  site  shows  the  3  wagon  set  with  the  other  couplings  at  the  ends



#11 spikey

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 11:05

Sorry Steve, but I simply don't see how that rake of three Peco slate wagons could couple to and uncouple from my Minitrains Gmeinder.  But it doesn't matter, because I rather fancy standardising on the couplings which Peco use on the rest of their 009 rolling stock.

 

So the only question now is the one I asked in my last post - does the Peco "standard" 009 coupling work with my loco, or do I have to convert that?  This is the one I'm on about ...

https://www.google.c...zGqi8-MKu983TM:


Edited by spikey, 01 June 2017 - 11:05 .


#12 PatC

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:39

I'd recommend that you get a pack of the Greenwich type couplings and give them a go before you give up on the idea completely. Over fourteen years of 009 modelling I've tried the standard Bemo coupling and the Paul Windle fold up type. Bemos are now very expensive IMHO, working out at over a quid a coupling. The Greenwich type still sell for about £4 or £5.00 for a pack of ten. I started experimenting with them about five years ago and have now standardised on them, gradually retro fitting all of my older stock. Once you've folded up a few they get easier and quicker to make, don't require any solder (which the Windle type do), they are unobtrusive and auto uncoupling is easy to achieve and makes operation so much more enjoyable. Definitely worth a go.
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#13 spikey

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 13:38

Thanks Patrick, I hear what you say - but I'd still appreciate it if somebody can tell me whether or not a "standard" Peco 009 coupling will perform properly with my Gmeinder.



#14 Stevelewis

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 13:45

Thanks Patrick, I hear what you say - but I'd still appreciate it if somebody can tell me whether or not a "standard" Peco 009 coupling will perform properly with my Gmeinder.

I  have  had   a couple  or  so Minitrains  locos,  their couplings  did work  fine  with  Peco L&B  rolling  stock  and  also  Roco H0e rolling  stock. So I would  have no worries about  compatability


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#15 spikey

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 16:21

Many thanks Steve.



#16 Hobby

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 12:17

As long as the heights are the same then Peco/Roco/Bemo and Greenwich are all compatible.

 

I'd echo Pat and say that you should at least try Greenwich, they are so much nicer, if you can't get them to work you'll sell them on easy enough!



#17 Nile

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 14:32

When in doubt, try it out, or get someone else to.

First photo shows the Minitrains loco coupled to two vehicles. On the left with a Peco coupling, on the right with a Greenwich coupling.

009_16.JPG

 

This photo shows that Peco and Greenwich couplings will happily couple.

009_17.JPG

 

You shouldn't have any problems if you later decide to upgrade to hands free operation with Greenwich couplings.


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#18 spikey

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 16:36

Neil, thank you very much indeed for that post.



#19 Stubby47

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:34

I've just been researching this exact issue - which couplings to use on 009 stock.

 

Do the Greenwich couplings stay coupled when pulled across a permanent magnet in the track ?

 

Stu



#20 cnw6847

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 11:56

I've just been researching this exact issue - which couplings to use on 009 stock.

 

Do the Greenwich couplings stay coupled when pulled across a permanent magnet in the track ?

 

Stu

Stu,

Yes, the Greenwich couplings stay coupled when pulling over the magnet.

They need to be pushed together to give them some slack to uncouple.

 

I have found them pretty reliable and would recommend them.

Make sure they are the same height etc


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#21 2996 Victor

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 20:13

Apologies for hijacking this thread, at least in part!

 

I'm just embarking on an 009 layout and, as it will be primarily an Inglenook puzzle, I'm thinking about couplings.

 

I've always had an abhorrance for those enormous tension-lock monstrosities, so something as unobtrusive as possible has always been a key factor in all my plans and failed projects. However, in a layout where shunting is the key, I'm going to need an automatic rather than the good old three link (frustratingly ever-lengthening sight doesn't help, either!).

 

I have to say that the Greenwich couplings seem like an excellent compromise, so I'm going to give them a shot, even though it'll be a while before I can report back!

 

Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark


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#22 Ryteker

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 20:17

Victor,
I’m not sure if this thread is still ‘live’, but found it during looking for 009 uncoupling etc.
I built an ‘00’ version of inglenook sidings some time ago, and came across a few issues that needed to be addressed with regard to coupling/uncoupling that may help. (I’m looking to do a smaller 4’ x 2’ layout in ‘009’) starting very soon, and, being interested in shunting, plan to incorporate both an Inglenook-Sidings and a ‘Timesaver’ shunting area into it, again with some sort of coupling/uncoupling etc. loco/wagon detection, automation and running under ‘DCC’ .... well that’s the hope/plan
The coupling was an issue as whenever a loco approached the wagons, (particularly a single wagon) it had a tendency to push it away, rather than coupling, I overcame this by use of ‘neo’ magnets, a small ‘disk’ one glued to the underside of every wagon, and a larger, more powerful one underneath the base board that could be adjusted to ensure correct positioning for both coupling and uncoupling.
This ‘held’ the wagons in place whilst the loco coupled to it.
The uncoupling was done by micro servo’s fitted under the baseboard operating to raise when required.
There were other ‘facilities’ on the layout that I won’t go into here in case it is not a ‘live’ subject.
I do have an extensive record of ‘the build’ (somewhere) which I can post if anyone is interested.
This is a link to a YouTube video of it being ‘solved’ by a young visitor at an exhibition about 3 Year’s ago if anyone is interested.

Cheers
Roy
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#23 2996 Victor

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 10:40

Victor,
I’m not sure if this thread is still ‘live’, but found it during looking for 009 uncoupling etc.
I built an ‘00’ version of inglenook sidings some time ago, and came across a few issues that needed to be addressed with regard to coupling/uncoupling that may help. (I’m looking to do a smaller 4’ x 2’ layout in ‘009’) starting very soon, and, being interested in shunting, plan to incorporate both an Inglenook-Sidings and a ‘Timesaver’ shunting area into it, again with some sort of coupling/uncoupling etc. loco/wagon detection, automation and running under ‘DCC’ .... well that’s the hope/plan
The coupling was an issue as whenever a loco approached the wagons, (particularly a single wagon) it had a tendency to push it away, rather than coupling, I overcame this by use of ‘neo’ magnets, a small ‘disk’ one glued to the underside of every wagon, and a larger, more powerful one underneath the base board that could be adjusted to ensure correct positioning for both coupling and uncoupling.
This ‘held’ the wagons in place whilst the loco coupled to it.
The uncoupling was done by micro servo’s fitted under the baseboard operating to raise when required.
There were other ‘facilities’ on the layout that I won’t go into here in case it is not a ‘live’ subject.
I do have an extensive record of ‘the build’ (somewhere) which I can post if anyone is interested.
This is a link to a YouTube video of it being ‘solved’ by a young visitor at an exhibition about 3 Year’s ago if anyone is interested.

Cheers
Roy

 

Hi Roy,

 

to be honest, I hadn't considered the potential issue of the loco simply pushing a wagon rather than coupling - its not something I recall seeing mentioned in the past. I'm planning on weighting my rolling stock, either by with loads or with under-floor ballast, which will hopefully help.

 

I've got my baseboards in kit form, as yet unassembled, so your post is quite timely in that I can experiment with coupling before getting starting scenery etc. I'll report back when I know what's what!

 

Best regards,

 

Mark



#24 Nile

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:00

If the wagons are reluctant to couple, or bounce off each other, here are some things to consider:

 

Weight - the more the better, within reason. Metal wheels help here, as long as they don't have steel tyres.

 

Brakes - if the wagon is free running it will tend to run away. Adding some sort of brake will stop this. Something like a bit of foam rubbing on the axle, or a a bit of wire. It needs to provide enough force to stop the wagon rolling away, but not stop the wheels from turning.

 

Coupling loop height - if it's a bit low it won't go over the hook. Or the hook could be too high. These things often don't show up until an operating session, so it's worth testing all combinations of wagons. I find that bending the front of the loop at a slight angle helps, so that it is angled to pass over the hook.


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#25 rynd2it

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 17:04

Hi,

 

If I have read all of the above correctly, the Greenwich will couple to a Bemo-equipped wagon/loco but I suspect it won't magnetically uncouple. Is this true?

 

Thanks

 

David