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Going the extra mile in modelling..





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#1 40034_Nick

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:02

I am wondering how far everyone is going on modelling. Going the extra mile, attention to detail, just going too far.?

 

I have myself just started to paint the seats and upholstery in the coaches. It will probably never even be seen but seems to make me happy.. 


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#2 newbryford

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:27

I am wondering how far everyone is going on modelling. Going the extra mile, attention to detail, just going too far.?

 

I have myself just started to paint the seats and upholstery in the coaches. It will probably never even be seen but seems to make me happy.. 

 

For most, railway modelling is for pleasure. It is a hobby after all.

If it makes you happy then that's all that matters.

 

Another factor is that railway modelling is about compromise and at what level of compromise you are happy with.

My major compromise is 00 as although I can build track and rewheel stuff, it's not something that gives me pleasure, therefore I don't do it.

 

Cheers,

Mick


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#3 BlackRat

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:30

If you enjoy it, do it.

When you stop enjoying your hobby, then it's no longer a hobby but a chore.
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#4 MartynJPearson

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:36

I often go the extra mile, but then end up backtracking 1500 yards because my ambitions were far greater than my ability - particularly when it comes to painting :)

 

One thing I've started doing is adding basic interiors to buildings that I am going to light up - nothing too detailed, just enough to pass muster if someone were to squint through the window. Either that, or I add some vertical blinds so you can't see the interiors, which after all in the case of kits are normally by default instructions saying "fold here"!



#5 The Johnster

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:48

Painting seats and putting passengers in coaches (and first class and no smoking stickers on the windows) is something I do because a) I enjoy it and find it satisfying, and b) even if they are not visible from most normal viewing angles, the overall impression is better than the bare plastic wrong coloured interior moulding.  I also model some windows open on some stock so you can see in better.  

 

But mostly I do that sort of thing because I like doing it; like you, it seems to make me happy.  This is the crux of the matter; the hobby is about enjoyment and thus a very personal matter; a level of detail that I am happy with when I look at the model is enough for me, though it would be very crude to some modellers and far to finicky and fussy for others.  

 

For me, the model as a whole has to convince me that I'm looking at a real railway, just small.  Suspension of disbelief in a railway that has the wrong gauge, insanely oversized railheads and steamroller wheel flanges, no steam and smoke, couplings that don't look like anything real and keep the stock too far apart, and all the other inevitable compromises even before it has to endure my attempts at realistic modelling, depends on a level of detail and weathering that fortunately I can provide to my own satisfaction, well, most of the time anyway.  I would not be happy if I could not do this, if I had done my best but it still didn't convince me.  I would be reluctant to impose my standards on anyone else, or to have anyone else's imposed on me.  It isn't a thing I regard as 'going the extra mile', it is just doing what I am capable of to a tolerable standard and not worrying too much about what others are doing.

 

This is not to say that I don't find 'better' layouts inspirational and enjoy seeing photos, reading articles, and seeing them at shows, but I am realistic and philosophical about what I can achieve.  Of course, I can always learn and am, at least in theory, improving over time; the current layout is the best work I have ever done, though eyesight restrictions have meant a lowering of overall standards over some of my previous ones.


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#6 Pete the Elaner

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 13:06

I agree with all of the above.

Setting your own standards or goals & achieving them gives you a sense of satisfaction which is very rewarding. Judge for yourself what you want because it is your hobby.

Some of my friends like to get their track just right & others feel that this is unimportant but the buildings really give the layout its character.

I don't think either of them are wrong.


Edited by Pete the Elaner, 10 August 2017 - 13:09 .

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#7 JDW

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 09:37

As the Johnster said, I paint the interiors because it looks better than a plain moulding - it's one of those things that you can't really see it, but if it's not there, you notice it.  Unfortunately, most of my stock is DMUs, and it seemed a good idea to start with.  I have something like 30 DMUs though, and after the first few, it became a job I needed to finish, rather than one to enjoy!  I'm gradually getting there, and thankfully some are Bachmann 158s and 170s with dark glazing!  Worth the effort though, makes a big difference to the overall impression.


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#8 jf2682

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:14

As the Johnster said, I paint the interiors because it looks better than a plain moulding - it's one of those things that you can't really see it, but if it's not there, you notice it.  Unfortunately, most of my stock is DMUs, and it seemed a good idea to start with.  I have something like 30 DMUs though, and after the first few, it became a job I needed to finish, rather than one to enjoy!  I'm gradually getting there, and thankfully some are Bachmann 158s and 170s with dark glazing!  Worth the effort though, makes a big difference to the overall impression.

30 DMUs?  That has to be a record!  I like the DMU aspect of the hobby - would love a trans-pennine as a reminder of my days of commuting from Victoria to St Helens with my father when I was at UMIST...


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#9 wirey33

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:30

I am wondering how far everyone is going on modelling. Going the extra mile, attention to detail, just going too far.?

 

I have myself just started to paint the seats and upholstery in the coaches. It will probably never even be seen but seems to make me happy.. 

 

When you start modelling the stains on the upholstery, you know you've reached a tipping point...


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#10 CloggyDog

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:45

Nick,

 

I aim for an achievable standard I've set myself and then try to apply it consistently. As others have said, this is meant to be an enjoyable hobby. If it ceases to be enjoyable, either stop, or persuade/pay/trick someone else to do those less enjoyable bits! :onthequiet:

 

And everyone will have the bits they enjoy and the bits they don't. I like building and detailing stock, but dislike doing scenery.

 

I have painted coach interiors, though only on stock with windows big enough that you'd notice that I'd painted the seats (having researched whether it was green or red leatherette and on which deck or section of each coach H0 scale DR EpIV stock, in case you were wondering). On some stock I haven't as you'd struggle to notice even close up. I did once look at doing some 4mm 1970s DMU moquette on self-adhesive labels for my 1st gen DMU fleet... might still have the file somewhere. And I know there a couple of manufacturers who produce such things for some RTR stock.

 

I do have a lovely Slaters 7mm 20t LMS brakevan with a fully painted and detailed interior (stove, padded seats, tea can, papers on the desk, etc) which are nigh-on invisible now that the roof is fixed on. On the other side of the coin, The Shirebeck signalbox also has a fully detailed interior, but I cannily left the roof loose so it can be revealed with a flourish should the occasion demand :sungum:


Edited by CloggyDog, 11 August 2017 - 10:54 .


#11 Metr0Land

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:53

I think it also depends a bit on how far you've come, and whether you now want to do more?

 

I always added No Smoking and First Class transfers inside windows and started going to the trouble of making sure I had them in the correct places for my stock.  Sometimes I painted seats but that's been a bit variable.

 

At one time I never put dummy couplings on the front of locos/DMUs on the basis I'd probably need to couple them to other stock at times.  Now I have far more stock that I need (don't many of us?) I can run most things in one direction only, knowing that I generally have another of the same class to operate in the other direction.  Thus I now put a dummy screw coupling on the front (Hornby X5069 preferred) plus crew, coal and correct lamps - but these are items I've graduated to after a period of time, as I need a stronger and stronger 'fix'



#12 D854_Tiger

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 11:43

I suspect a lot depends on the kind of railway you would like to build and the way you like to play trains.

 

If a branch line terminus is what floats your boat then that lends itself to the effort involved in aspiring to finescale.

 

But, if like me, you're thinking big, main line and lots of trains then the compromises of off the shelf trains (unmodified), off the shelf track, kit built buildings everywhere kind of goes with the territory if your ambition is to ever actually finish the project (one day).

 

Also there are many aspects to realism, 4mm or even 7mm fine scale trains can look great but (unless you're Pete Waterman) always pulling just two coaches and nearly always around tight (if not prototypical) curves, how does that compare to the obvious compromises of modelling in N but with eight or nine coaches going around sweeping bends.

 

You can argue plenty about which of those examples looks more realistic, though most of us would rightly never dare to do so.

 

Each to their own, we're all cranks in the end, sharing a dodgy handshake (if we had one), far more in common than divides us and the evidence of that must be the friendly. helpful and supportive forum we all enjoy being part of.

 

Believe you me, the Internet is mostly not like that, try a visit to a political forum or the comments sections of the online newspapers and you will be left wondering how come we are all not at war.

 

Basically, I like coming here for the sanity on offer as much as the trains.

 

RMWeb and Mumsnet - the remaining outposts of civilisation to be found on the WWW, we are so alike in many ways.


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#13 John Tomlinson

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:28

Interesting that most of the comments so far have, in my view correctly, emphasized that what we do is a hobby, and therefore should be for pleasure.

 

Clearly, there are some folk who regard a new model being issued as an angstfest, what can be found to fault it, which seems to me to rather miss the point. By the way, I firmly believe the RMweb members are some of the mildest in this regard. As an occasional military modeller in plastic, Airfix, Revell etc., on some of the forums it is quite clear that unless you've re-mortgaged the house to buy a shed load of aftermarket items to correct this, that or the other fault, you simply aren't a player, and might as well end it all now!

 

I do believe that, behind closed doors in the comfort of their home, folk are entitled to run what they like, to a standard of their choosing, and as long as they enjoy it then that's just fine. I have a rather different view for exhibition layouts, where the public are paying money to see what is supposed to be the cream of the hobby, and here I think we are entitled to expect more than out of the box RTR running on a train set.

 

For myself, starting my present OO project some 18 years ago, I defined a set of standards and acceptable compromises that I'd stick to. These have evolved a bit, but not much. One example is couplings, and I decided to use something close to prototype as far as possible, so for example, Kadees (with pin removed) on Mk1 coaches, and 3 link, instanter and screw as would be on particular wagons. That was my choice, and I'm glad I've stuck to it, but what anyone else does is up to them.

 

John.


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#14 Guy Rixon

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 17:00

The finesse of 3D printing leads me to put in a lot of detail that will not really be seen. Earlier today, I was correcting square nuts to hex on one design because accuracy. And I have some axleboxes where I did two prints of the same basic design because the lettering on the front was different. I can just read the writing on the print with a 10x magnifier.

 

My excuse is that eventually I get asked to scale these designs up and then the detail become necessary. Easier to put it in from the start. 


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#15 DavidCBroad

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 20:10

Its your railway, you can add or remove as much detail as you wish.    Even painting and lining only one side of locos and stock has been done, even by BR when experimenting with liveries on black 5s, or painting one side in one livery and the other a different livery as the Rev W Awdrey did with some of his stock.

I find painting the inside of coaches to be the single most time effective way of upscaling stock.  The white partitions on some not that old Hornby stock was hideous so I paint them brown with a simple dash of blue or green for the seat upholstery.

Passengers, well mine in early 60s so a lack of passengers is probably prototypical, but a lack of footplate crew on a moving loco is to me as bad as not having any valve gear on a BR std 4.  Fireman pirouetting on one foot is nearly as bad so my figurers are just standing around.

That's just my take on it, its not set in stone, at least not until I get better at using a chisel.



#16 southern42

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 00:27

Going the extra mile?  
In my case, Am I bonkers?

 

For our 00 gauge/4mm/1:76, whatever you will, I look at the real world and something will stick out and I will wonder if it is do-able on/for the layout (currently Camel Quay) such as adding 'hair' for a dock worker's short beard because his stance reminds me of someone I know who has a beard; adding fine green thread for piping along a bus crew's uniform because the prototype uniform had green piping; making a bishop's cross and chain when it could so easily be painted direct onto the figure; making rosettes, ribbons, hankies, and other accessories to adorn the Morris dancers and 'Obby 'Oss; painting (and weathering) train crew and doing up train and bus passengers and vehicle drivers (and chopping them up to fit!).  On a larger scale, replicating detail from photos of 'local' rail side and countryside features or as mentioned above, replicating interiors - and, yes, someone at exhibition is bound to notice - and ask you how you did it or even tell you how they have achieved something that originally sounded like a silly idea or thought maybe just goes too far.

 

And having gone to the trouble of doing the interior of the Booking Hall based on photos taken on the Mid Hants, Ray added interior lighting - but you have to dip down below the canopy to see it and if there is a train in the station you might not notice, anyway! And if you do dip down to see under the canopy you will also notice some seated passengers and, if you really take note, and look through the window of the rear door, you might just see a passenger coming towards the Booking Hall from the far side of the layout!

 

Other things I like to play with are perspective and ways of deceiving or leading the eye by the placement of vehicles, figures and such like. Put small vehicles (cars, say) at the rear and larger ones (lorries and buses) at the front of a road disappearing away from you and the road usually looks longer|).  Similarly, 00 gauge/4mm figures at the front of the layout, HO figures behind, and N gauge figures in the distance, if possible on a bit of low relief backscene.  I doubt people will be conscious of all this, but put things out of place and it will be noticed!

 

Maybe we just do/try to do these things because we can!  I find it fun, especially if it works out and the buzz keeps me motivated.  Not only that, it usually means there is always something new on the layout to accompany anything new on the running side (mostly OH's input). 

 

If you think all this is mad.  Earlier this year, I made a diorama of a local scene from a postcard for an exhibition.  It is no more than 4 inches deep and uses 1:76 scale vehicles.  It has opened my eyes to so many more possibilities.

 

IMG_3644a.JPG

 

These things, and much greater ones, are do-able, it seems.  Go for it.  Enjoy doing it.  Marvel at what detail is possible.  It makes me so much more appreciative of the modelling and ideas of others and that, in turn, keeps me open to modelling.  That can't be such a bad thing.

 


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#17 D854_Tiger

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 12:47

Some years ago there was a rumour circulating that some East Midland class 08s were going to acquire names, named after the imaginary friends Larry Grayson used to mention in his stand up act.

 

Nothing came of it but I've kind of decided that's going to happen on my railway.

 

Possible names, the choice is endless.

 

Slack Alice 
Vinegar Vera 
Sterilised Stan, the milkman 
Apricot Lil, who works in the jam factory 
Pop-It-In-Pete, the postman ("The things I've had through my letterbox!") 
Self-Raising Fred, the baker 
Everard Farquharson, Larry's "close friend" 
Top-it-Up Ted, the petrol station attendant 

 

and Michael Bonneaventure (Everrad's new friend)

 

Though I'm thinking Michael Bonneaventure might look better on a Brit, a new one of course (Tornado style), 70055 Micheal Bonneaventure.


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#18 Northmoor

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 21:32

I do believe that, behind closed doors in the comfort of their home, folk are entitled to run what they like, to a standard of their choosing, and as long as they enjoy it then that's just fine. I have a rather different view for exhibition layouts, where the public are paying money to see what is supposed to be the cream of the hobby, and here I think we are entitled to expect more than out of the box RTR running on a train set.

 

I would completely agree with the attitudes expressed on this thread - as a recent entrant to RMWeb I enjoy the encouraging, constructive level of criticism offered by forum members.

 

Your comment here, John enters the risky territory where we sometimes negatively criticise others' work, but I completely agree with you.  It is too easy to shout down any critic with the standard response of "well what have you built?", but if I am paying to see layouts I expect to be impressed.  Sadly, I attend no more than a couple of exhibitions annually because on too many occasions I have come away uninspired and in a few cases actually feeling short-changed.  

 

One of the trends which I believe has not helped layout quality is too many shows offering competitions for "Who can build a layout in six weeks?". That is always going to affect the quality of work.  Not everybody (in fact almost nobody else) is going to make another Copenhagen Fields, but if you've taken 30 years over a project it's probably because you refuse to settle for less than you know you can achieve. The availability of open-box-and-place buildings is not the cause of the problem but a symptom of it. 


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#19 Dave John

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 22:51

Sometimes it is just about setting yourself a challenge. It may work out, if not chalk it up to experience and have a go at something different. If everyone just stuck to what was known to work we would all still be using 3 rail tinplate track. 

 

Anyway, for a bit of general silliness I made this one go up and down instead of along the track. Pointless but fun. 

 

https://www.flickr.c...in/photostream/


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#20 The Johnster

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 20:27

When you start modelling the stains on the upholstery, you know you've reached a tipping point...

 

No, mate, the tipping point was passed when you thought of doing that, especially if it was you that made the stain on the upholstery...



#21 Midland Mole

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 21:20

I would love to go the extra mile, achieve a level of detail that would boggle the mind of most....but a near total lack of skill prevents me from doing so. :D

 

And I completely agree with the OP and others about painting seats, it does look 100% better than the plain mouldings....and the effort IS worth it. :)

Alex


Edited by Midland Mole, 13 August 2017 - 21:24 .

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#22 cobach47

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 11:06

i have started using sharpie pens to detail loco cabs they do silver gold and bronze - so easy DSCF0627.JPG


i have started using sharpie pens to detail loco cabs they do silver gold and bronze - so easy attachicon.gifDSCF0627.JPG

old airfix 4F 


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#23 D854_Tiger

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 13:33

Wasn't there some chap, a few years back, with a layout at Warley that was using Z-scale 6.5 mm track to do narrow gauge live steam.

 

Something like that, I can't entirely remember.

 

The whole thing struck me as being entirely bonkers, why put yourself through all that, but you had to be impressed by what he had achieved.

 

Those trains were indeed live steam and somehow they worked but don't ask me how. He even had a scale shovel and coal, almost ground to dust, for the firebox.



#24 Kylestrome

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 14:09

I usually compromise and only go the extra half mile.

 

I get to the finish quicker and I can still feel good about it. :sungum:


Edited by Kylestrome, 15 August 2017 - 17:16 .

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#25 JZ

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 15:27

Had wagons from most of the Somerset collieries. They were filled with coal from their particular pit. Took some effort to get them all, some closed 100 years ago. By the time it was broken up it look like any old coal from anywhere, but I knew. Now I model BR days, I have used the left over to fill my 16 tonners.









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