RMweb Gold young37215 Posted December 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2017 Hi I have an old 00 guage Hornby class 25 reworked as an ETHEL. Having moved to Peco finescale track, I find that the wheels are too large and need replacing. From scanning RMWeb I was inclined to splash out on Ultrascale but their website tells me they have an 8 month lead time. Good luck to them if they have that large an order book but I will not be adding to it! I would appreciate counsel on what other options I should consider. Thanks Rob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPH 603 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I'm not sure if this may help, but have a look at Bachmann's range of wheels. And what diameter are you looking at? This will help you get the right size wheels and look at the different types (eg. Spoked, 3 hole, etc.) so you can give it. prototypical appearance. You will also need to look at the gear sizing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I assume the problem is that the flanges hit the chairs. If so, the time honoured solution for those without a lathe involves turning down the flanges using a power drill of some description and a file. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Alex TM Posted December 7, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 7, 2017 Hi Rob, Nice conversion. If your ETHEL is unpowered would it be worth simply removing the motor, wiring loom, etc, and simply replacing the wheels with Bachmann or Hornby 14mm coach wheels? Over the years I have had a number of these locos, and have also run them on Peco code 75 (flat bottom) track but with no problems; if we're talking about the same track, is it worth checking the back-to-back of the existing wheels? Hope something there is of help. Regards, Alex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 It is not that they have such a large order book. More that making wheels for model railway enthusiasts is a very small part of their business and they probably don't make much out of it either all things considered. The quality is well worth the wait. The problem with using any other wheel set id fitting the gears to the axles. Taking a file to the flanges is probably the best method. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted December 7, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) Thanks to those for their quick response. I have to admit that I did not do the conversion, the loco was an Ebay purchase a few years ago and came with engine and all gearing to the wheels removed. Not a problem as such although I do need to find a better way to increase the overall weight because, even before my current problem, it was prone to derail which I have always attributed to it being too light. The wheels are simply sat in the bogie and held in place in Hornbys usual manner for the class 25. I consider this unconventional because the axles do not have the usual pointed end and there are no locating holes in the bogie hence why I think I could use other wheelsets of a similar size. I have tried this and trashed a set of wheels by filing down the pointed ends but they did not sit well in the bogie. I have also tried create a locating hole in the bogie frame with my tyre tuner but the plastic is too hard for the tuner to penetrate. Given the locos age, I do not want to mess around with exposing the bogie to heat in the hope that this enables the tuner to drill into the bogie. I have checked the back to backs and all are within the range of 15.3mm to 15.7mm. It is definitely the flanges that are causing derailments, this is clearly visible on point frogs and frequently elsewhere. My thinking at present is to try filing the flanges down and see if I can improve things. If not then from what I have learnt so far, I might have to wait the 8 months for Ultrascale! Edited December 7, 2017 by young37215 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 If your Ethel is unpowered as you say then have a look at Markits diesel loco wheels they will just drop in and the flange is good for finer track. Dave Franks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaddeus Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 ETHEL 005.JPG Anyone else spotted the deliberate mistake? and dont get me started on "Ultrascale" prices and lead time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Anyone else spotted the deliberate mistake? and dont get me started on "Ultrascale" prices and lead time. Based on the lower picture there will be a short as the insulated wheels are on different sides. The wheels with gears should be on one side, those without on the other. Easily done. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Alex TM Posted December 7, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 7, 2017 Anyone else spotted the deliberate mistake? and dont get me started on "Ultrascale" prices and lead time. Chassis the wrong way round? Shouldn't the fuel tanks be at the no. 2 end? Also no handrails to the cab front. Still think it's a good model. Regards, Alex. Happy to be corrected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb67 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I'm looking at replacing wheelsets on a Hornby Class 25 as well. I didn't know there what such a wait for ultrascales, what would the alternative for powered wheels and gears? Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave47549 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) . Edited October 4, 2021 by Dave47549 Removed pointless guff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPH 603 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) Are you thinking of upgrading your class 25 to modern standards, have a look at the Black Beetle Range. These are are pretty good, but I have heard of haulage problems on gradients. I'm thinking of using these on my large range of planned DMU & EMU builds. Some people like to use the current Hornby motors as well, they are pretty good, and I haven't had any problems with them. If you don't want to motorise your 'Ethel' then I think just go with the Bachmann wheels. EDIT: Also, if you don't want to motorise your model I wouldn't recommend the Hornby wheels. I've had problems with a Hornby Railroad Gresley Teak Brake Coach and also my Hornby Mk1 Tailisman set. Perhaps it's just Hornby Railroad's poor quality. Either way I really should replace them wheels one day... Edited December 7, 2017 by DoubleDeckInterurban Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I'm looking at replacing wheelsets on a Hornby Class 25 as well. I didn't know there what such a wait for ultrascales, what would the alternative for powered wheels and gears? Onr al;ternative is to buy a complete Bachmann 24 or 25 - there's good offers at the moment - from which you take the mechanism and adapt the Hornby body parts to fit. That's a better upgrade than the Ultrascales in respect of mechanism quality as this is a very sweet running unit. You will be left with a Bachmann body and Hornby mechanism to sell as spares, and the persistent spares drought works to your advantage there. And you could have that all done by Christmas so both time and net cost will be better than the Ultrascale option too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted December 8, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2017 The trial and tribulations continue! I have adjusted the back to backs to 14.8 mm and run the two bogies by hand. They appear to run better although there is some contact by the flanges across points. Unfortunately because the bogies are rubbing against the chassis, I can not run the complete loco to really test if the adjustments have solved my headache. I need to do some filing to smooth the chassis/bogie interface and hope that this may resolve the problem. On the positive side I have managed to add ballast to the fuel tank today which has greatly increased the weight and should improve running once I sort the wheels. One point of clarity from me, the loco has had the engine removed and is unpowered with no electrical content whatsoever. All of the comments about re-engining etc make interesting reading but are not what I intend doing. I am grateful to all who have contributed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted December 15, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2017 The additional ballasting has proved very effective, the ETHEL is now completed and runs happily on code 100 track. Unfortunately it still does not like code 75 and derails with great regularity. It seems that I am back to my original issue, replace the wheels or get the flanges on the existing wheel trimmed down. My efforts to source alternative wheels have not borne any fruit and I am not happy or confident to set about the wheel flanges with a file. So unless there is a kind soul with a lathe and a little time on their hands who is prepared to help me, it looks like I will have to wait for Ultrascale to have a production run. Rob In happier times, the ETHEL running doing what it was converted to do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 AGW do wheels for this model in 00/EM and P4. A simple conversion. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted December 15, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2017 AGW do wheels for this model in 00/EM and P4. A simple conversion. Thanks for the info, I will give them a call as the Hornby 25 is not listed in their 00 catalogue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) The AGW catalogue number for Hornby Class 25 replacement wheels is 4800/3 Edited December 15, 2017 by PenrithBeacon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted December 15, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2017 The AGW catalogue number for Hornby Class 25 replacement wheels is 4800/3 This shows as Bachmann wheel replacement, not Hornby in the current catalogue. I will check with AGW next week to confirm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 This shows as Bachmann wheel replacement, not Hornby in the current catalogue. I will check with AGW next week to confirm. Yesterday I was rummaging through the drawer pedestal of my workbench and came across a box marked 'Hornby 25 bits'. In it was two bogies from a Hornby 25 of which one was still assembled to its ringfield motor. Also in the box was a partially made up HL Lo-Rider gearbox and all its bit and pieces. I had completely forgotten I had them, I just had this idea that it was possible to use AGW wheels with a Hornby Class 25 loco. Well it is but you have to replace the ringfield motor with the HL gearbox. The design includes the provision for re-using the Hornby cosmetic bogies. Sorry if I mislead you. Regards 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted December 20, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2017 Yesterday I was rummaging through the drawer pedestal of my workbench and came across a box marked 'Hornby 25 bits'. In it was two bogies from a Hornby 25 of which one was still assembled to its ringfield motor. Also in the box was a partially made up HL Lo-Rider gearbox and all its bit and pieces. I had completely forgotten I had them, I just had this idea that it was possible to use AGW wheels with a Hornby Class 25 loco. Well it is but you have to replace the ringfield motor with the HL gearbox. The design includes the provision for re-using the Hornby cosmetic bogies. Sorry if I mislead you. Regards Not a problem given the ETHEL is non motorised meaning the issue does not arise. The question as to whether the AGW wheels will do the job on the Hornby chassis is one I have yet to answer to my satisfaction. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 As you’re unpowered there’s no problem. The attached photos show the unpowered bogie frame with no wheels and with AGW wheel sets HTH 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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