Brunel: The Man Who Built Britain. Channel 5 tonight 8PM

[Paul.Uni]

Rob Bell presents a two part programme about Isambard Kingdom Brunel. The first episode is broadcast tonight at 8PM on Channel 5.

http://www.channel5.com/show/brunel-the-man-who-built-britain/

Edited December 8, 2017 by Paul.Uni

[dibber25]

Pretty good. Interesting to see IKB's diary and other personal material which doesn't often see the light of day. Shame the filming of the GWR main line is 'current' material so the views are littered with wretched masts (mostly without wires). There must be some archive available, surely. And why call the Maidenhead arches 'squashed' - when you've already talked about Brunel and geometry. Elliptical is surely a term that most people would understand? (CJL)

[kevinlms]

Pretty good. Interesting to see IKB's diary and other personal material which doesn't often see the light of day. Shame the filming of the GWR main line is 'current' material so the views are littered with wretched masts (mostly without wires). There must be some archive available, surely. And why call the Maidenhead arches 'squashed' - when you've already talked about Brunel and geometry. Elliptical is surely a term that most people would understand? (CJL)

But Brunel almost certainly would be pleased, if he were still around to see the modern trains and the speeds they now obtain on his high speed mainline.

[dibber25]

But Brunel almost certainly would be pleased, if he were still around to see the modern trains and the speeds they now obtain on his high speed mainline.

 

Yes, I'm sure he'd be pleased, and much of his original work was destroyed long ago by the GWR during either gauge conversion or quadrupling work. However, he was also very proud of his work (for example his fury when his SS Great Britain was allowed to be stranded on the Irish coast) and whilst we can never know whether or not he'd have been OK about electrification masts (he'd probably have designed something elaborate and expensive) I find them intrusive and ugly. (CJL)

[Torper]

The title is rather misleading and I can only assume that the "built Britain" phrase refers to the SS Great Britain as, so far as I'm aware, Brunel didn't in fact do much building in Britain north of the Thames.

 

DT

Edited March 16, 2018 by Torper

[davefrk]

Yes but for some people 'North of the Thames' doesn't exist....

 

Who were these Stephensons and Telfords anyway.

 

Me cynical? 

 

Dave Franks.

[Jol Wilkinson]

The title is rather misleading and I can only assume that assume that the "built Britain" phrase refers to the SS Great Britain as, so far as I'm aware, Brunel didn't in fact do much building in Britain north of the Thames.

 

DT

 

 

Yes but for some people 'North of the Thames' doesn't exist....

 

Who were these Stephensons and Telfords anyway.

 

Me cynical? 

 

Dave Franks.

Hear, Hear.

 

Unfortunately, by being the best self publicist in his profession during his era, he is now the only engineer who existed in Victorian Britain as far as the media and educationalists are concerned.This will just cement his undeserved reputation. His successes are applauded, his failures overlooked.

 

Jol

[rab]

His successes are applauded, his failures overlooked.

Wait until they get to the atmospheric railway this week!

[dibber25]

Hear, Hear.

 

Unfortunately, by being the best self publicist in his profession during his era, he is now the only engineer who existed in Victorian Britain as far as the media and educationalists are concerned.This will just cement his undeserved reputation. His successes are applauded, his failures overlooked.

 

Jol

 

Isn't that true of any famous person? Churchill? Nelson? Elvis Presley? It also depends on who is writing the text because they'll either start from "He's my hero" or "Can't stand him, he was over-rated". Honest appraisals are rare, indeed. (CJL)

[Jol Wilkinson]

Isn't that true of any famous person? Churchill? Nelson? Elvis Presley? It also depends on who is writing the text because they'll either start from "He's my hero" or "Can't stand him, he was over-rated". Honest appraisals are rare, indeed. (CJL)

Chris,

 

that's true, but it seems that IKB is the only "recognised" Victorian engineer. History as presented by the meedja is often over simplified and hence provides an inaccurate picture. We usually only get to hear of Telford, the Stephensons, and others as a byproduct of programmes about canals, early railways, etc. not, as in this case, as important contributors to industrial and engineering developments in their own right.

 

F W Webb of the LNWR is usually only recognised (and derided) for his attempts at building compound locomotives - often not very successful - but not for his long lasting "simple" locos, the development of Crewe into one of the finest manufacturing works with it's own iron and steel production facilities, etc.

 

Of course, as designer of the GWR, IKB scores a double whammy, as it is the only pre-group railway that carried its name into the post group era and is consequently better know by the man on the Clapham omnibus.

 

Jol

[Dunsignalling]

Pretty good. Interesting to see IKB's diary and other personal material which doesn't often see the light of day. Shame the filming of the GWR main line is 'current' material so the views are littered with wretched masts (mostly without wires). There must be some archive available, surely. And why call the Maidenhead arches 'squashed' - when you've already talked about Brunel and geometry. Elliptical is surely a term that most people would understand? (CJL)

I don't think any designer of OHLE will ever come up with anything that satisfies everyone.

 

Keep it lightweight and (relatively) unobtrusive and it will be described as fragile or "built-on-the cheap"  as soon as a second significant failure occurs in one year. 

 

The style currently being applied on the GWML looks self-consciously robust to the point of ugliness, I suspect in an attempt to distance it from what has gone before.

 

For enthusiasts, the stuff will always get in the way of what we really want to be looking at but, economically and environmentally, we're stuck with it.

 

John

Edited December 11, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Edwin_m]

I think it's fair to say that Telford only did roads and canals, and the Stephensons only did railways, but Brunel is a bit less easily categorised as he had a crack at all sorts of things.  This probably accounts for him being portrayed as something of a polymath.  Arguably Robert Stephenson in particular had a wider range of accomplishments in an engineering sense, including building locomotives as well as civil and structural engineering, but as it was all related to railways it is probably viewed more narrowly by the non-technical observer. 

 

I think it's also fair to say than if your definition of an engineer is "somebody who can do for sixpence what any fool can do for a shilling" then many of Brunel's contemporaries surpassed him.  The broad gauge is the most obvious example of something which cost a lot more for not much benefit, and it should have been evident even at the time that the atmospheric railway was a technological dead end. 

[10000]

IMHO Brunel is very overrated. His spectactular failures are usually forgotten or glossed over. 

 

The Great Way Round with it's broad gauge, the atmospheric railway, his design for Didcot station, the Great Eastern launching, all spectacular mistakes or failures

 

Everyone also seems to forget that although he designed Paddington (yes its a great station) much of the architectural detail was done by Wyatt

 

To be fair  he did produced some great bridges.

[colin penfold]

Fascinating programme, thanks for sharing

[jjb1970]

I suspect engineering is no different to many other things in that those with public recognition are not necessarily the same people as those with the greatest professional recognition.

[jjb1970]

I watched the episode tonight, it was an enjoyable program but it did seem to be more hagiography than history.

[rab]

I watched the episode tonight, it was an enjoyable program but it did seem to be more hagiography than history.

Well I've learned a new word tonight.

St.Isambard - has a certain ring to it.

[Edwin_m]

To be fair, the programme did talk about how the atmospheric railway was never going to be successful with the strong implication that Brunel should have known that before wasting time and money building one.  However they didn't mention the really basis flaw with that system - the tractive effort available from a theoretical maximum pressure difference of one atmosphere over the limited cross-section of the pipe was far less than available from a locomotive.  For a system that is intended for hilly routes that's a bit of a showstopper. 

[55F]

IKB.........an amazing man who achieved some spectacular successes in an era when the skills and engineering techniques were so very different and primitive by comparison.

[jjb1970]

I thought the program went a bit over the top in building Brunel into the father of naval architecture and shipbuilding. Ironically an engineer who worked with  Brunel and whose legacy to naval architecture was far more significant than that of Brunel is all but unknown to the general public, William Froude.

Edited December 16, 2017 by jjb1970

[rockershovel]

I’d like to add a vote for a now largely forgotten engineer who did far more for the nation than Brunel ever did or could (interestingly enough, he was known to IKB, who championed his appointment) - Joseph Bazalgette, the great pioneer of public sewer networks.

[Robin Brasher]

Economic history was one of the subjects I studied and I don't recall learning anything about Brunel. The people that I learned about regarding the development of railways were Richard Trevithick, George Stephenson and George Hudson, William Symington and Robert Fulton regarding steam ships and Thomas Telford regarding bridges.

 

I think it is only recently that Isambard Kingdom Brunel has been recognised as a great engineer. For me it began with the cartoon film of the man with a big top hat and then with my recent visits to SS Great Britain, the Swindon Museum and the National Railway Museum.

 

The Television programs were an excellent record of his achievements but I recall an earlier documentary about him. To me he seemed to have lost the plot with the broad gauge, the atmospheric railway and the SS Great Eastern but the bridges, the SS Great Western,the SS Great Britain, the Thames tunnels and the Great Western Railway were splendid achievements. I am pleased he is now getting the recognition he deserves not just with historians and transport enthusiasts but with the general public.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Robin Brasher

[pete_mcfarlane]

It's important to remember that there were a multitude of different track gauges in use in Britain at the time Brunel picked 7' instead of 4' 8.5". It wasn't a case of everyone using 4' 8.5" apart from one random maverick who decided to be different, as is often the way it seems to be presented.

[jjb1970]

I think Brunei has always been recognised as a fine engineer, what seems to have changed is that he has gone from being one of  many great 19th century engineers to now being built up into some sort of pre-eminent genius. 

[Robin Brasher]

It's important to remember that there were a multitude of different track gauges in use in Britain at the time Brunel picked 7' instead of 4' 8.5". It wasn't a case of everyone using 4' 8.5" apart from one random maverick who decided to be different, as is often the way it seems to be presented.

There were horse drawn narrow gauge tramways in the Isle of Purbeck before Stephenson invented the Rocket.