Unscientific, not guaranteed to be representative, age versus modelled era poll

[GreenGiraffe22]

Have voted, but as was pointed out in the Hornby thread, the grouping era covers three periods that are as distinct as the the sub-periods in both BR and privatization That is pre-war, ww2 and post war. This is especially true for the LNER with different numbering of loco's and some livery differences ie no Silver after WW2,

 

With my modelling focus being WW2 I would certainly be interested in seeing the grouping era broken down.

Good to see there is another WW2 modeller =)

 

also with the SR pre war around 1936(?) they started changing the way they numbered locos so there's a 4th grouping era there

[Mike Storey]

Excellent idea and the relatively few results so far are very interesting! 

 

I know the "era" system is prevalent in the trade, so fully understand why it has been used, but when you look at the timespans of some eras compared to others, it can only skew the results at face value. For example, BR Blue pre-TOPS is just five years-ish, and BR Blue post-TOPS is 10-11 years, so the former is always going to be a pretty niche market (whereas Grouping is 24 years).

 

Separating early BR crest from late BR crest is more sensible, as the latter is seen as the transition period, becomes notably different to before 1957.

 

But, as a post-TOPS modeller, I often buy BR Blue pre-TOPS, and just re-number etc. If you add the two together, you get the third-equal highest most preferred "era", whereas separately, they would appear to count for a much smaller proportion. So the statement made by some on here and much supported elsewhere, that it will be another 20 years before BR Blue becomes the most popular era, could well be rather wide of the mark. If this becomes at all representative (by virtue of larger participation), it may well show that Hornby in particular, are ignoring a large chunk of the market at their peril.

[sem34090]

Interesting to note that pre-grouping scores higher than post-privatisation... good news as far as I'm concerned! Joined the forum just to take part in the poll... may do other bits in the future though! 

 

I get the feeling there may be more under-15 modellers though, but in some cases I fear the notion of a forum containing (mostly) older men may put some of that age group off. 

 

Not a criticism, just something to bear in mind if the proportion of younger modellers seems rather low.

 

sem34090

[Ozexpatriate]

I chose the "era" system not because it is particularly good, but because it has now been adopted by the two largest manufacturers. Even if a lot of us don't necessarily like it, we know what it intends to convey.

 

Like the arguments to refine grouping into sub-sections (which, except for WW2 and post-war, don't necessarily line up well across the grouping companies) there is, I think, an equally valid argument people can make to aggregate data into fewer buckets - pre-1923, Nationalization, BR corporate, and Post-BR blue.  (I can accomplish that with the eras.)

 

Some GWR fans would want to group (at a minimum) by corporate branding: GREAT <arms> WESTERN, shirt button and G <arms> W.

Some LNER fans would probably want to separate Gresley, Thomson and Peppercorn and the renumbering efforts in 1942, 1944 and 1946. 

And so on for LMSR and SR.

 

I did not know how many people would choose to participate. If the categories were too granular we would loose relevance.

[Ozexpatriate]

Not a criticism, just something to bear in mind if the proportion of younger modellers seems rather low.

I expect that the younger (under 20) and older (over 75) enthusiast populations are less well represented on RMweb.

[Andy Hayter]

It is easy to be critical of the time periods because they don't fit with "my" company's history, but the simple fact is that every company and in some case regions within our nationalised system have key dates which saw some sort of sea change and do not correspond with other contemporary companies.

 

1923 is a date we can all fix on as a sea change date - except if you model the L&Y or H&B in which case 1922 is the key date.  LDECR has an Edwardian sea change date when it too ceased to exist as a separate entity and SER/LCDR are Victorian entities.

 

A further problem is that if you start to break down the time periods to try and capture some of these dates, you run a real risk of people then saying that their date crosses two or more groups, so the data becomes muddied anyway.

 

The difference in lengths of time represented by the periods only becomes significant if most modellers take a specific period of their lives (say 10-15 years old) as "their" period.  Even then that can be analysed out up to a point.  However I know we are going to find a very significant variance from that basic premise - what will be interesting is how big - 1/3rd, 1/2, more?

 

SO my  advice is do not get too hung up about the time periods.  They may not completely reflect your (or my) chosen subjects, but then neither will the results - unless you spend 1.5% of your time modelling pioneering, 10% pre-grouping etc. right up to current operations (3%).

 

 

EDIT: crossed with Michael's explanation.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Andy Hayter

[sem34090]

I expect that the younger (under 20) and older (over 75) enthusiast populations are less well represented on RMweb.

That's true.

[FPH 603]

Agreed. I found it surprising how many people just model without any actual connection to the place/period. I do have a connection to the area (Yorkshire) as I visited last year. Although I have no connection to the era. My layout is a bit of a hybrid when it comes to it's origins and inspiration. It's a mix of travel memories, inspiration from photographs and other layouts and random ideas I've come up that somehow fit into what I'm modelling.

[DavidB]

I suspect my modelling of the contemporary Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland in 16mm scale isn't what the poll is intended to capture, but I've voted anyway to make sure that large scale modern narrow gauge gets at least one vote.

 

David

[Ozexpatriate]

I suspect my modelling of the contemporary Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland in 16mm scale isn't what the poll is intended to capture, but I've voted anyway to make sure that large scale modern narrow gauge gets at least one vote.

David, I think it is completely in scope. Thank you.

[jonny777]

People have been asking that for the last 50 years...

 

 

 

Very true, but I'm not sure that 50 years ago the figures for 0-25 year olds would have been just 5% of the total. 

 

IIRC about 50% of the boys in my class at school had some form of train set/ railway layout/collection. 

[newbryford]

I've voted and now I can see the results so far - it don't see any real surprises in there, but specific breakdowns later may throw up one or two.

 

Time for a sweeping generalisation type question.

 

Do older modellers mostly model the older stuff and younger modellers, the newer stuff?

 

I guess we'll find out at the end.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Mike Storey]

I chose the "era" system not because it is particularly good, but because it has now been adopted by the two largest manufacturers. Even if a lot of us don't necessarily like it, we know what it intends to convey.

 

Like the arguments to refine grouping into sub-sections (which, except for WW2 and post-war, don't necessarily line up well across the grouping companies) there is, I think, an equally valid argument people can make to aggregate data into fewer buckets - pre-1923, Nationalization, BR corporate, and Post-BR blue.  (I can accomplish that with the eras.)

 

Some GWR fans would want to group (at a minimum) by corporate branding: GREAT <arms> WESTERN, shirt button and G <arms> W.

Some LNER fans would probably want to separate Gresley, Thomson and Peppercorn and the renumbering efforts in 1942, 1944 and 1946. 

And so on for LMSR and SR.

 

I did not know how many people would choose to participate. If the categories were too granular we would loose relevance.

 

So sorry Michael - if it looked like I was criticising what you have done, I did not intend to, and fully understand why the only meaningful thing to do was to follow the manufacturers, as there is, as yet, no consensus as to what should replace their system.

 

I was hamfistedly trying to understand how to interpret the eventual results.

[sem34090]

Well, I'm not old enough to remember all diesels being blue, and I model the following:

NCB South Wales 1950's - 1970's

BR(S) 1950's - 1960's

LBSCR 1900 - 1923

LSWR Pre - 1914

SECR 1900 - 1914 (The last three generally share the same layout at the moment!)

LSWR Narrow Gauge (Fictional)

LBSCR Narrow Gauge (Fictional)

BR(S) Narrow Gauge (Also Fictional)

 

So... I can't remember any of that (except the BR(S) Narrow gauge  )

 

Also, other than living within the former territory of the LB&SCR, I have no connection with any of those!

[47137]

For the fourth question I replied 'My primary modelling interest is not bound by a particular period' because as I find myself 'making' models of things I like, and 'buying' models of things I feel the layout ought to have. The 'making' extends especially to buildings and the landscape, which are often from a much earlier period than the trains beside them, if this makes sense.

 

Thanks for posting the poll.

 

- Richard.

[Ozexpatriate]

So sorry Michael - if it looked like I was criticising what you have done, I did not intend to, and fully understand why the only meaningful thing to do was to follow the manufacturers, as there is, as yet, no consensus as to what should replace their system.

No worries, I didn't take it as criticism at all.  I did take the opportunity to clarify my thinking - but there was no substantive disagreement from me.  There is the opportunity to combine the BR corporate blue into one result as well.

[Dick Turpin]

Have voted, but as was pointed out in the Hornby thread, the grouping era covers three periods that are as distinct as the the sub-periods in both BR and privatization That is pre-war, ww2 and post war. This is especially true for the LNER  with different numbering of loco's and some livery differences ie no Silver after WW2,

 

With my modelling focus being WW2 I would certainly be interested in seeing  the grouping era broken down.

 

Interesting. I also model the LNER, but would split the era into roughly 1920s, 1930s and 1940s. Basically, I see it as up to 1928 - change in livery style from number on tender to on cab sides, introduction of more lined black etc, and up to the war, with the last category as war and after, sort of era 3a, 3b and 3c. 

 

I believe the LMS also had a major livery change around 1928, either way, as always, pre 1928 livery styles would have been around by 1930. 

 

I'm sure there are lots of other historic timeline markers for era 3, like 1920s = boom, 1930s = depression 1940s = war and austerity + postwar austerity.

 

We could debate this for ever!

[wombatofludham]

Interesting exercise, just a shame we have no means of plugging into those modellers not active on the forum!

 

I found it difficult to answer the "preferred era" question. As a soon to be 55 year old, in theory, according to received wisdom, I should have answered "BR Blue" which indeed I do enjoy. However, I also enjoy "BR Sector", "Grouping" (not on the same layout obviously) and early "Privatisation". I ended up answering "BR late crest". Why? Well, despite me being 3 at the claimed cut off date of 1966, I do actually remember early blue AC electrics running past the bottom of the street, with small yellow panels and the gorgeous ferret and dartboard 3d cast logo, hauling early Mk2 and maroon Mk1 stock, green 40s, 47s and 25s on the occasional freight, and even green DMUs at Lichfield City. Just a couple of years earlier, when I was more interested in filling nappies than Ian Allan ABCs, there would even have been steam running alongside electrics and diesels, and whilst I don't retain any visual memory of that period I am sure deep in my subconscious I would have seen the trains when being taken out in my pushchair around the village I grew up in. For me it is the perfect combination of electric, diesel and steam that just edged "BR late crest" into the lead for me.

 

To be honest though, and unlike it seems some enthusiasts, I like everything from the 1830s to the current day, UK and foreign, light rail, narrow gauge and even miniature railways and even plan in the long term, to possibly model an 1840s type scenario as a possible way back into the exhibition scene. However, I have two home layouts to build before that!

[sem34090]

Unfortunately any poll on any forum will suffer the problem of limited ciruclation; I've learnt this through organising a series of unofficial wishlist polls on the UKtrainsim forum!

[Talltim]

I've voted and now I can see the results so far - it don't see any real surprises in there, but specific breakdowns later may throw up one or two.

 

Time for a sweeping generalisation type question.

 

Do older modellers mostly model the older stuff and younger modellers, the newer stuff?

 

I guess we'll find out at the end.

 

Cheers,

Mick

I don’t think this type of poll can tell you. AndyY could probably make the links by analysing the data, but as we see it the seperate questions are, well, separate.

[Mikkel]

Thanks for setting up the poll.

 

I find it interesting that, at the time of posting this, only one third model what they remember.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Mikkel

[sem34090]

I too find that interesting... It may help to add some evidence to those who say that those of us who can't remember anything interesting choose to model earlier periods with all their colour and variety.

 

Speaking of which, I am a huge admirer of your work, Mikkel!

[eastglosmog]

An interesting poll.  I have filled the RTR bit it in with what I have running at the moment, not what I hope for the future, when I might get round to building some of the wagon kits I have got in store and do a bit of scratch building again! I too would have liked a bit more split in the pre-BR timescales, as there is a reason I model a minor GWR line in 1946-7 - plain green (or black) locomotives with no fiddly lining!  An interesting thought is that when I was modelling 40 years ago, the period was c1907 so still 70 years before the then present - don't think there is any significance in that though.

 

Edited because I hit submit before finishing the post.

Edited January 12, 2018 by eastglosmog

[Dunsignalling]

Thanks for setting up the poll.

 

I find it interesting that, at the time of posting this, only one third model what they remember.

I originally plumped for that option but, on reflection, getting on for a third of my models are things I didn't see personally although they do fit (or nearly fit) into my preferred period and geographical spread.

 

I have therefore amended my answer to that question to the third option to reflect what continues to motivate me whereas option two is what initially attracted me.

 

Trickier than I thought, even for someone who thought his parameters were well-defined.

 

John

Edited January 12, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Bill_J]

I answered the poll in the most honest way I could. However, my modelling interest is mostly in one particular railway line through its entire history, from late Victorian, through grouping and nationalisation, to closure in the early 60s. To project the line onwards to the present day, and beyond, would be (an highly interesting - I admit) fantasy.

 

It definitely does not represent my childhood experience or nostalgia of any kind, as my exposure to real railways in my early years was scant to say the least. So how could a poll be created to be inclusive of me and others like me? Those that don't quite fit in?

 

Regards

 

Bill