Less steam on the mainline in 2018?

[Mallard60022]

Personally I think we are damn lucky to see steam on any of the 'main lines'. In many ways I'd rather see and travel with steam on secondary routes that are challenging (as many of the trips already provide). If tours from (say) Kings X to York took place on Sundays and there were just half a dozen a year then I think they would be better loaded than at present.

However exciting it is to watch and enjoy, can we really have steam on the (say) ECML on weekdays, forever racing between loops and sometimes causing delays to those that have to use trains for essential purposes? It might also be better to try and run more steam tourist trains in the summer as on the Scarborough Spa, Settle Carlisle and Jacobite. 

My opinion is that there have been too many steam specials that have not been fully loaded (seen at Retford for example). Too much of a good thing perhaps?

Before anyone decides I must be exterminated, I am a true steam fan and always have been, but I think we have to accept that things need to change.

Phil 

[Joseph_Pestell]

I agree that it makes more sense to run steam over less used routes.

 

Speaking with the Director of a major tourism attraction last week, he tells me that we are expecting a major boost for UK tourism this year as the effects of the pounds devaluation post-referendum work through. It did not make so much difference to the price of European holidays last year as the package tour firms had pre-purchased currency. It would be a pity if the steam excursion operators miss out.

[cal.n]

I think next year will be better, as mentioned above WCRC have pulled out of operating VT Tysley based operations, focusing on tours around Carnforth (Shap, S+C, Cumbrian Coast) and of course continued (very profitable) Jacobite services. When LSL get going and start doing more (and combined traction tours with the 40 and both Deltics) there will be a bit more going on.

 

Tysley are also trying to rush through the process of becoming a TOC themselves but I doubt that’ll happen this year.

 

For anyone worried about price, look at Saphos Trains’ website. All half price for the first year of operations. Probably not aimed at enthusiasts, but there is a climb of Copy Pit later on in the year that will attract enthusiasts, especially for the price

[locoholic]

I think next year will be better, as mentioned above WCRC have pulled out of operating VT Tysley based operations, focusing on tours around Carnforth (Shap, S+C, Cumbrian Coast) and of course continued (very profitable) Jacobite services. When LSL get going and start doing more (and combined traction tours with the 40 and both Deltics) there will be a bit more going on.

Tysley are also trying to rush through the process of becoming a TOC themselves but I doubt that’ll happen this year.

For anyone worried about price, look at Saphos Trains’ website. All half price for the first year of operations. Probably not aimed at enthusiasts, but there is a climb of Copy Pit later on in the year that will attract enthusiasts, especially for the price

Maybe some of the problem is that steam trips seem to be mostly in the north of England, whilst most of the population and money is in the south! I haven't been on a steam trip for years - got fed up with being pushed along by a diesel.

[MarkC]

Cranks are, on the contrary easily pleased. A few choice red bits and some freight traction for starters will placate most.

But it is now a case of sit down and shut up and give us £107, pleb class. They aren't the enjoyable day out with your mates they used to be.

Not surprisingly the tour ops have geared up catering for Mr and Mrs Normal who will gladly hand over £130 each and not "create" because they've had 57601 already this year, or bellow "DEAAATH!" through Newton Abbot.

 

C6T.

 

Oh dear...

 

 

[cal.n]

Maybe some of the problem is that steam trips seem to be mostly in the north of England, whilst most of the population and money is in the south! I haven't been on a steam trip for years - got fed up with being pushed along by a diesel.

 

Cumbrian Mountain Express and Winter Cumbrian Mountain Express run every weekend in the summer and Every weekend from about now to March and depart from the sunny south.

 

Start at London Euston, hauled by a blue class 86 in mk1s at 100mph up the WCML where (usually at Preston) somthing steam will appear and take the train up the 1-in-75 Shap (unassisted!*) to stop at Carlisle for you to get lunch. From Carlisle, (steam hauled) you go down the S+C (with numerous 1-in-100s), through to Settle and eventually a juction south of Preston where the 86 will take you back to London Euston and the steam traction goes back to Carnforth.

 

Traction will be either 45690 or 45699 or possibly 45407+44871. 46115 has gone for overhaul, Network Rail don't like 48151 going over Shap (its only cleared for 50mph) and 46233's owners have announced she will be staying down south for the next few years.

 

*Every Cumbrian Moutain Express originating at Euston has been unassisted since 2012 (when it was snowing and they thought ETH might be a good idea so one was added at the water stop at Carnforth)

Edited January 22, 2018 by cal.n

[Zomboid]

But you'll still get people moaning about all those electric miles from London to Preston.

Sounds like a fine day out to me, though.

[locoholic]

Cumbrian Mountain Express and Winter Cumbrian Mountain Express run every weekend in the summer and Every weekend from about now to March and depart from the sunny south.

 

Start at London Euston, hauled by a blue class 86 in mk1s at 100mph up the WCML where (usually at Preston) somthing steam will appear and take the train up the 1-in-75 Shap (unassisted!*) to stop at Carlisle for you to get lunch. From Carlisle, (steam hauled) you go down the S+C (with numerous 1-in-100s), through to Settle and eventually a juction south of Preston where the 86 will take you back to London Euston and the steam traction goes back to Carnforth.

 

Traction will be either 45690 or 45699 or possibly 45407+44871. 46115 has gone for overhaul, Network Rail don't like 48151 going over Shap (its only cleared for 50mph) and 46233's owners have announced she will be staying down south for the next few years.

 

*Every Cumbrian Moutain Express originating at Euston has been unassisted since 2012 (when it was snowing and they thought ETH might be a good idea so one was added at the water stop at Carnforth)

That's interesting. It's pretty difficult to tell from the adverts which trains have diesels on the back - perhaps the tour operators could be a bit more open and honest?

[Mallard60022]

Maybe some of the problem is that steam trips seem to be mostly in the north of England, whilst most of the population and money is in the south! I haven't been on a steam trip for years - got fed up with being pushed along by a diesel.

Not the case. There are loads of money making trips out of or around the capital of England and many of those are running in the south and west. Also very few of the steam trips I have been on in the past have needed 'pushing' by the support locomotive. Maybe worth having another go?

Phil

Edited January 23, 2018 by Mallard60022

[5944]

For anyone worried about price, look at Saphos Trains’ website. All half price for the first year of operations. Probably not aimed at enthusiasts, but there is a climb of Copy Pit later on in the year that will attract enthusiasts, especially for the price

No, ta. Sitting in an air con mk 2 in standard class on a steam hauled railtour really does not appeal! Yes the price is attractive, but I'm not going to waste my money on something like that. I find it's much more enjoyable doing foreign steam these days. You can have your head out of the window, you're not stuck on the train for hours on end, and the prices are generally cheaper too. Admittedly you have to factor in hotels and flights, but as a lot of UK railtours are very early starts and late finishes, hotels are often required anyway.

[ejstubbs]

46233's owners have announced she will be staying down south for the next few years.

 

uksteam.info has her doing the Cumbrian Mountain Express in August this year, and the Waverley five times across August and early September.  Is the Railway Touring Company going to have to change its plans?

 

Hmm, checked their web site and it says the 4th August CME will be hauled by 60103, and offers a list of three possible locomotives for the Waverley - though still including 46233 at the moment.  The Princess Royal Class Locomotive Trust web site says: "The Railway Touring Company ‘Cumbrian Mountain Express’ trips are operated by a pool of several locomotives of which 6233 ‘Duchess of Sutherland’ is one. The dates on this list are ones which 6233 is currently planned to operate but this is subject to change."

 

I couldn't immediately see a formal announcement on there that she is going to stay 'down south'.  Was any reason given for this decision?

[Paul.Uni]

I believe it was a quote from the Chairman of PRCLT in one of the magazines. IIRC the decision by WCRC to reduce the amount of tours they are operating, has meant there is less work available for mainline locos. The majority of the work available to 46233 was in the south, so that it was going to go for most of the year.

 

This info was before 46233 was withdrawn for repairs, which has meant that its booked tours until May are now being run by a Black 5 or 61306.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Paul.Uni

[cal.n]

I believe it was a quote from the Chairman of PRCLT in one of the magazines. IIRC the decision by WCRC to reduce the amount of tours they are operating, has meant there is less work available for mainline locos. The majority of the work available to 46233 was in the south, so that it was going to go for most of the year.

 

This info was before 46233 was withdrawn for repairs, which has meant that its booked tours until May are now being run by a Black 5 or 61306.

 

Yep, 46100 covered most of her planned tours after she went for repairs. Word is that 45596 will operate from from Carnforth when it is done and she is listed on RTC's website as being in the pool for the Waverley tours. She is very nearly done and had a steam test late last year and should do mainline tests at Carnforth this summer, allowing her to fill the gap left by 46115. With some of the larger tours requiring a class 8 loco (previously 46233) will be hauled by 35018.

[royaloak]

Cranks are, on the contrary easily pleased. A few choice red bits and some freight traction for starters will placate most.

C6T.

Are they?

Once they have red penned the bit of track or 'new' loco they wont bother doing it again so then what?

Lots more planning getting lines passed fit, schedules to work out etc, all a right royal pain in the rear!

 

Conversely Mr & Mrs Normal will happily ride up and down the same bit of track time after time, no replanning needed, no new bits to get signed off, in fact just submit the same schedule as you used last time, easy peasy.

 

That is one of the reasons the Torbay Express (and its ilk) are such a success.

Edited January 23, 2018 by royaloak

[royaloak]

Oh dear...

Aye, playschool must have finished early today!

[Classsix T]

Are they?

Once they have red penned the bit of track or 'new' loco they wont bother doing it again so then what?

Lots more planning getting lines passed fit, schedules to work out etc, all a right royal pain in the rear!

 

Conversely Mr & Mrs Normal will happily ride up and down the same bit of track time after time, no replanning needed, no new bits to get signed off, in fact just submit the same schedule as you used last time, easy peasy.

 

That is one of the reasons the Torbay Express (and its ilk) are such a success.

Apologies, I omitted "most" from my post in big enough letters. Much like modellers, cranks come in a variety of flavours and the scratch merchants you describe are an odious fringe, as much the beer fuelled yobs described latterly.

The rest is concurrent with my post earlier and it's the lairy minority that've spoilt tours (meaning a change in marketing by the Operators, and indeed why wouldn't they) to the point I now withhold my custom, required 60, 56 and track or no.

 

C6T.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Classsix T

[Mallard60022]

Apologies, I omitted "most" from my post. Much like modellers, cranks come in a variety of flavours and the scratch merchants you describe are an odious fringe, as much the beer fuelled yobs described latterly.

The rest is concurrent with my post earlier and it's the lairy minority that've spoilt tours (meaning a change in marketing by the Operators, and indeed why wouldn't they) to the point I now withhold my custom, required 60, 56 and track or no.

 

C6T.

I had not realised how horrible some of these oiks were until a Diesel tour stopped at Retford some years back to allow an overtake. Some blokes piled out and were obnoxious on the Station for about 5 minutes until some staff came and sorted them out. Complete wan#### that I thought had died out in 1973.

Phil

[woodenhead]

I had not realised how horrible some of these oiks were until a Diesel tour stopped at Retford some years back to allow an overtake. Some blokes piled out and were obnoxious on the Station for about 5 minutes until some staff came and sorted them out. Complete wan#### that I thought had died out in 1973.

Phil

They produced offspring who then went on to become the Peak Army

[jjb1970]

I remember some of the bashers in the 80's when I used to do rover tickets, not only were there some complete lunatics who were anything but a good advert for rail enthusiasts but it is a miracle the trackside wasn't strewn with severed heads and body parts given the obsession of the time for hanging out of windows and waving arms around.

[rab]

I remember some of the bashers in the 80's when I used to do rover tickets, not only were there some complete lunatics who were anything but a good advert for rail enthusiasts but it is a miracle the trackside wasn't strewn with severed heads and body parts given the obsession of the time for hanging out of windows and waving arms around.

Which sums exactly why standing

at windows is no longer allowed.

Yet again the few spoiling things

for the many.

Edited January 26, 2018 by rab

[Boris]

Which sums exactly why standing

at windows is no longer allowed.

Yet again the few spoiling things

for the many.

I got howked at Skipton for flailing the 37s over Settle when ATN did the top and tailed ones many years ago.  Had to spend the night there because I got very pist instead and lost my wallet (and my trousers) to a busty blonde tramp in the local dive bar.

[royaloak]

I had not realised how horrible some of these oiks were until a Diesel tour stopped at Retford some years back to allow an overtake. Some blokes piled out and were obnoxious on the Station for about 5 minutes until some staff came and sorted them out. Complete wan#### that I thought had died out in 1973.

Phil

Its a pity they didnt remove them from the station, that would have messed up their day!

[royaloak]

They produced offspring who then went on to become the Peak Army

You could always tell which graffitti had been done by the Peak Army, the spelling was atrocious! 

 

<quick spell check> 

[Classsix T]

I got howked at Skipton for flailing the 37s over Settle when ATN did the top and tailed ones many years ago. Had to spend the night there because I got very pist instead and lost my wallet (and my trousers) to a busty blonde tramp in the local dive bar.

Thus Karma was restored and the Universal balance maintained!

 

C6T.

[woodenhead]

Of course we shouldn't forget the two opposing arms of 1980's computing gaming enthusiasts, the Peek Army and the Poke Army.