Fitting out The Shed [Was: Unconverted loft? Expensive shed?]

[Andymsa]

Incidentally, does anyone have a good knowledge about security for a shed like this? The windows are all double glazed and the door has a BS3621 5 lever deadlock - within reason, what additional security measures are advisable?

What type of door will be used, you mention windows double glazed are they upvc

 

I have cctv and the building is alarmed, part of the that alarm has smoke detection

 

Andy

[jamespetts]

What type of door will be used, you mention windows double glazed are they upvc

 

I have cctv and the building is alarmed, part of the that alarm has smoke detection

 

Andy

 

The door and window frames are made of wood: the glass comprises integral double glazed panels - I saw the double glass panels without any frame waiting to be installed.

 

What sort of alarm and CCTV system do you have?

[73c]

The door and window frames are made of wood: the glass comprises integral double glazed panels - I saw the double glass panels without any frame waiting to be installed.

 

What sort of alarm and CCTV system do you have?

Yale do a fairly good wireless system, have fitted them to a few property's, really easy to install, ( other alarms are available ) about 140 quid plus another 40 for a smoke detector

[Andymsa]

The door and window frames are made of wood: the glass comprises integral double glazed panels - I saw the double glass panels without any frame waiting to be installed.

 

What sort of alarm and CCTV system do you have?

My alarm is for the whole house but the shed forms part of it, it is a gardtec one. It also will send email and texts to me. Also I have smoke detectors connected to it. The cctv is commercial grade I have 16 cameras that do the whole house but some of them do the shed as well. Also if anyone enters areas that are set up as triggers I get notifications on my phone. So I can log in and look at them and act arordingly.

 

My only concern on yours is how robust is the door, the lock is only as good as the framing and door that can withhold a good crowbar, likewise for the windows. I would recommend a good security light also.

 

Andy

[ianLMS]

Average alarms etc will only put off the un-trained, low skilled low lifes of society. Pro-thieves will get in no matter what security you have. They will break in the house to get keys, move vehicles out of the way, remove gates/fences/doors/windows and frames etc in order to get at your pride and joy!!! some even put everything back so you have no idea until you enter the shed again! The question is whether the gain to them is worth the risk.

 

Best advice is to not advertise what you have and where it is, make it as hard as possible for them to get near the facility (physical deterrants such as prickly bushes, obstacles etc, CCTV covering all angles and signage warning of their presence as a deterrent). 

 

From the pictures, they could easily remove the rear or side fence panels to gain access to the garden so protection around those areas would be a good idea. 

 

Failing that, let a well trained Doberman sleep in the shed!!! That will put nearly everyone off!

 

Good luck

Ian

[hayfield]

We moved house just over 2 years ago having never had an alarm in our other houses. The new house (100 yrs old) so to speak had an alarm, its surprising how quickly you get used to having it, we had some building work done and felt very vulnerable whilst it was disabled.

 

You have been given some sound advice, do not advertise you have anything, make it as hard as possible to gain access to the rear of the property, dont leave ladders and tools lying about.

 

Most break ins/shed thefts are opportunistic, open gates,windows, doors etc. Also they don't like the presence of alarms and I guess CCTV, they want soft easy targets.

 

As for the professional gangs looking for high value easy to dispose of items (cars, jewelry TV's ) again not much will stop them, just make it as difficult as possible, perhaps one of those systems which sends pictures to your phone when activated  

[Andymsa]

Very true that the determined will get in regardless of what security you have. But the aim of security is to make it less attractive to break in. But if the determined do get into the garden in my case I get notified giving time to act accordingly before they enter the buildings. But how many professional burglars are interested in model railways, this crime tends to be individuals looking for money for drugs

Edited June 12, 2018 by Andymsa

[Colin_McLeod]

 

What sort of alarm and CCTV system do you have?

Don't tell him Pike.

 

https://www.facebook.com/VinnyEastwood/videos/1076484506084/

[jamespetts]

The shed has now been completed (pictures attached). I still need to have air conditioning fitted, have the gardener clear the garden and re-instate the weed membrane and slates in front of the shed where the stone circles were, have the washing line re-fitted with improved pulleys, connect the internet cable sockets at both ends, have the interior decorated, have racking put up for the layout base boards, have the floor varnished, fit security cameras and possibly an alarm, and possibly also fit smart light switches. After all that is done, I will need to select an appropriate workbench and chair, buy a new monitor, keyboard and mouse for my small computer, acquire suitable storage units and then put all of the tools and model railway equipment into those storage units. I will then be able to think about starting on the actual model railways.

 

Unfortunately, late in the construction of the shed, I realised that I had made a design error by not having the large window closer to the door, thereby leaving less space for the fiddle yards of the larger layout than I had intended - I think that I will need to redesign that layout somewhat, although quite how to do that I am not yet sure. I will probably discuss that in more detail on the thread dedicated to that layout.

 

In the meantime, the people building the shed had removed the stone circles that were in my garden. Please send me a private message to see the eBay listing.

[Andymsa]

Looking very good

 

A couple of observations I notice that the ceiling is wood, watch it for shrinkage. It might be a bit late now but if you can put in two master switches one for the layout and one for room sockets. So when you leave the shed just flip the switches and you know everything is off. I notice that there aren't many ceiling lights for when you are doing work, you can never have much light especially when doing fine detail work. On the back garden fence I would look at beefing up security on it and secure it the panels down so they can't be lifted. The floor does look good but again watch for shrinking maybe something to consider is quality carpet tiles, I was sceptical about using them but they turned out better than expected and makes things just a bit more cosy and comfy on the rear end when spending time under the layout.

 

Maybe the use a kitchen worktop with kitchen cupboards under it for storage and a office chair, I found this good and the correct height for the workbench

 

But overall a fine looking railway room

 

Andy

Edited June 17, 2018 by Andymsa

[Colin_McLeod]

Excellent looking shed; well done.

 

I wouldn't let the position of tbe window unduly influence the layout design if you don't mind the layout going in front of tne window. Sunlight on a fiddle yard could fade colours of the stock though, requiring some form of shade or blind to protect.

 

Best wishes with the project.

[jamespetts]

Thank you both for your thoughts. I have been told about shrinkage of the ceiling, and advised by the builders not to have it painted for about 6 months. The electrical arrangement is that there are three breakers in the fuse box: one for the lighting, one for the lower sockets, and one for the upper sockets, the latter being intended to be used for air conditioning. It seems rather excessive to turn off the layout at a circuit breaker every time that I leave the shed. I may well acquire wi-fi operated plug sockets, however, to allow the layouts to be turned off remotely.

 

In relation to lighting, the photograph of the shed when lit shows only one of three banks of lights lit. There is, in fact, a light directly over the large window. Further, I intend on buying a bright angle-poise desk lamp for the purpose of working on detailed modelling at the work bench.

 

As to the garden fence, may I ask how one would go about preventing it from being lifted? Could a burglar not simply climb over the fences? (There is a double fence at the back: one is mine, one is the rear neighbour's).

 

As to carpet tiles, would that not generate too much dust and make it too difficult to find very tiny detailing pieces of N gauge locomotives or scenery dropped from the workbench or layout?

 

I am not sure that kitchen cupboards will really quite be the thing, as they are not really intended for working at a sitting height.

 

In relation to the window position, the trouble is that I had intended this window to be directly above my work bench to maximise light; if I am to have the planned reversing loops (even with some considerable compression of the lead-ins to the fiddle yard to reduce the linear space that it takes), only half at most of the workbench will be directly below the window. The window handle protrudes into the room, and so the layout boards could not go in front of this handle directly even though the window itself opens outwards. I was wondering whether it would be possible to have some sort of hinged arrangement for the reversing loops (since this is all that would need to go in front of the window), but I have no idea whether this is feasible or how this might work - any thoughts as to this would be appreciated.

 

(As it is only the reversing loop rather than the storage sidings that would intersect with the window, I doubt that fading would be an issue in this situation).

Edited June 17, 2018 by jamespetts

[Andymsa]

Hi there

 

Your point on carpet tiles is well taken, and the few times I have dropped things I have found them. Dust hasn't been more of an issue than would be normally experienced.

 

The lighting thing I have found can be an issue when working on the layout itself.

 

The kitchen unit height has worked out very good, as the working height is brought up to you and your not looking down too much on it and can get closer to the work.

 

If you have concrete boards on the bottom of the fence panels you can attached a bracket the loops under the bottom of the board up onto bottom of fence panel, also some anti climb paint on the top and carpets gripper on the top facing you, and before I get corrected on the carpet gripper I know the legal issues here but I take the view if someone is up to no good that's only way they would get injured.

 

The wood shrinking can be quite excessive in the garden shed I built I got at least 10mm gap that I have to sort, and this is built to the same standard as the shed building.

 

For switching the layout off and sockets, I put in those switches that are used on cookers which in turn run back to the fuse box, but in your case might be hard to retro fit now

 

But you should be proud of your shed as I'm sure you are, a good nice place for a railway

 

Andy

Edited June 17, 2018 by Andymsa

[jonhall]

 

 

Most sheds/garden rooms will thus probably not be "constructed substantially of non-combustible material". Remember, these regulations ultimately date back to (and were enacted originally because of) the Great Fire of London. Although a huge amount has been added and amended since then, the basic ideas (structural integrity in Part A and fire resistance in Part B) are likely to have remained the same. The big new idea after the Fire was to prevent the spread of fire from one building to the next so engulfing a whole city in an inferno as happened in 1667. That is why a building must either be very small, non-combustible or comply with regulations a whole section of which (Part B) is intended to prevent the spread of fire. As we will see, this is the part that the local authorities tend to be really interested in in the case of garden sheds.

 

 

 

Just a reminder what can go wrong...

 

https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/out-control-bonfire-epsom-traumatically-14692501

 

Jon

[ianLMS]

Even more envious now - looks great and cant wait to see the layout building commence.

[jamespetts]

Thank you all for your responses.

 

I have been thinking particularly about the flooring issue and am rather unsure what is preferable. The floor in the shed at present is solid softwood, untreated. This is prone to being damaged and needs some sort of surface treatment (as the shed people recommended) before regular use of the shed.

 

The options appear to be:

 

(1) varnish the floor;

(2) paint the floor with specialist floor paint;

(3) install linoleum;

(4) install vinyl flooring;

(5) install carpet tiles;

(6) install laminate wood flooring; or

(7) install ceramic tiles.

 

The requirements are as follows:

 

(a) the floor must be durable enough to cope with a chair with casters;

(b) the floor must be a light, plain colour to show easily any small dropped parts when modelling;

© the floor must be resistant to spillages of liquids when modelling; and

(d) the floor must be easy to clean and be not susceptible to dust.

 

Criterion (a) rules out options (1) and (2). Criterion (b) rules out options (1) and (6) (and I also detest laminate flooring). Criterion © rules out options (3) and (5). Criterion (d) rules out option (5).

 

That leaves the following possibilities: (4) vinyl flooring; or (7) ceramic tiles. I suspect that vinyl flooring will be more practical and less expensive than ceramic tiles, and it is the material that my father recommends, although I am not a big fan of the stuff.

 

Can anyone recommend any flooring option that I have missed, recommend a good, high quality type of vinyl flooring that is totally devoid of all pattern (to enable easy identification of dropped tiny parts), or have information to suggest that any of the options that I have ruled out can be ruled in (e.g., by a seriously effective means of waterproofing linoleum)?

[Kris]

Go vinyl. ~ With the movement you will get in the shed ceramic tiles will look a mess as the grout cracks between them. 

[davetheroad]

Any thoughts on the best type of alarm to fit. It appears an internal passive infra red sensor alarm would do the job but only when the lowlife had got into the shed (or rather my shed) There is also the added complication of the thermostat controlled fan heater. Surely this would set of the PIR? As the weak point is the door, or appears to be as is it actually reinforced ? I was wondering if a shock or trembler alarm would be a suitable alternative, the intention being for the alarm to operate before they get into the building and  generate a LOT of noise, the alarm, not the lowlife

[ianLMS]

I would go with Luxury Vinyl tile (LVT - Not the cheap self adhesive type). We just has some fitted in the dining/kitchen area and its great. Ranges 3-7mm thick (thinker the better), clips together like laminate and is cut easily with a stanley knife. Much more durable than vinyl sheet, very hard wearing & water-resistant surface, more flexible than laminate so suitable for slightly uneven floors or areas with movement. Needs a very thin membrane underlay.

 

Down side - it is pricey, but not as expensive as laminate. Looks like ceramic tile when fitted. 

 

This would definitely be my preference.

 

https://www.luxuryflooringandfurnishings.co.uk/nest-faro-grey-stone-click-luxury-vinyl-tile-flooring-6-5mm-thick.html

Edited June 25, 2018 by ianLMS

[Andymsa]

Any thoughts on the best type of alarm to fit. It appears an internal passive infra red sensor alarm would do the job but only when the lowlife had got into the shed (or rather my shed) There is also the added complication of the thermostat controlled fan heater. Surely this would set of the PIR? As the weak point is the door, or appears to be as is it actually reinforced ? I was wondering if a shock or trembler alarm would be a suitable alternative, the intention being for the alarm to operate before they get into the building and  generate a LOT of noise, the alarm, not the lowlife

The pir can be a multistage type where A it detects movement and B it detects Thermal and for it to trigger both states need to operate. I use these myself to overcome when I had a fan heater fitted and now air con. Also as you say you really want an alarm to trigger before they get in. You can use cctv to do this and any good quality system will do this.

 

Andy

[Andymsa]

Taking into account of your criteria I would go vinyl but be careful what type or how it's installed. You can get the spongy types so if any supports rest on it you may lose any levels set. When I first built my shed I had a carpet fitted but it soon became apparent that replacement would be an issue. Eventually although I don't like carpet tiles I went with good quality ones. Any damage that may occur to them can easily be replaced. If you go the vinyl route and framing is resting on the floor I would use vinyl tiles

 

Andy

[Jol Wilkinson]

Hard flooring of choice with a "thin" rug at your workbench. A soft surface to catch dropped items (and minimise damage). Things that fall onto a hard floor tend to then travel a long way and can be difficult to find, or so I find.

[Colin_McLeod]

I have used plywood flooring. This gave a flat hard surface to set the layout on and all baseboard legs could be fixed permanently onto the floor with angle brackets or Fixit blocks.

 

The remaining part of the floor not covered by layout was covered with carpet tiles.

[jamespetts]

Thank you for those suggestions. I had looked at the "luxury vinyl tiles", but I could not find any that were totally devoid of all pattern. Does anyone know of any?

[ianLMS]

Thank you for those suggestions. I had looked at the "luxury vinyl tiles", but I could not find any that were totally devoid of all pattern. Does anyone know of any?

https://www.remlandcarpets.co.uk/vinyl-floor-tiles/f/plain

 

Not sure if these will be the same type but they are plain coloured, devoid of patterns. They have a textured finish which provides a non-slip type surface (there are variants of non-slip mind). I quite like Golden Gradient!

Edited June 25, 2018 by ianLMS