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Gladiator H2 Atlantic

LBSCR Gladiator 0 Gauge




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#1 david.hill64

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 14:01

The Finney West Country 'Crediton' is now on its way for painting, so the time has come to start the next commission: a Gladiator ex-LBSCR Southern Railway H2 Atlantic. I think this will take rather less than the 12 months of the previous build!

 

To start with let's see what's in the box. Wheels and motor gearbox not supplied as standard of course. I have chosen an ABC-Maxon combination for the gearbox and motor.

 

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I shall be taking the opportunity during this build of taking more photos than usual and compiling a CD to include in the kits as the instructions are lacking drawings. I may even attempt to do these as I go along!


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#2 N15class

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 14:55

I do like the LBSCR Atlantic's. It's very hard to justify one on the LSWR. Will watch with interest. You never know one might end up in my collection.

#3 KeithHC

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 16:31

According to article in the latest Railway Modeller. The Atlantics during WW2 where based on the LSWR probably at Basingstoke and operated to Sailsbury and Southampton. You could just apply rule no 1.

Keith
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#4 Shez

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 17:55

I will also follow this with interest. Without doubt my favourite Southern Loco. I like Atlantic's generally. A really good kit for an NBR Reid one would be great.

 

Will it be in the Marsh Umber livery or Southern Green?


Edited by Shez, 13 March 2018 - 17:55 .


#5 david.hill64

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 01:35

I will also follow this with interest. Without doubt my favourite Southern Loco. I like Atlantic's generally. A really good kit for an NBR Reid one would be great.

 

Will it be in the Marsh Umber livery or Southern Green?

Neither: BR Black!


Edited by david.hill64, 14 March 2018 - 09:34 .

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#6 Petebe

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 12:20

David, building one of your own eh. Should be very interesting. I shall also be a follower.

 

 

Pete



#7 david.hill64

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:47

There are some evenings when you would be better off at the pub than the workbench. Yesterday was one of those............

 

I always find it very satisfying to be starting a new build: clean bench, no clutter, nice etches to look forward to, and yesterday I approached the bench with that same sense of eager anticipation. Dinner had been consumed early and a full evening awaited. Moreover the camera was ready on hand as I know I have to take photos to make up for the absence of drawings in the instructions. A peruse through the written instructions showed them to be not bad at all, so I started.

 

As usual I began with the tender. Removed and cleaned up the frames from the etch. These are nickel silver and quite thin. I added the bearings - rigid chassis - and then cut out and formed the three spacers. The instructions make it quite clear about what should go where. I tacked the spacers in place using some 3/16 rod through the bearings and then tried the alignment by adding the wheels front and aft. Perfect! All four wheels flat on the floor, so I completed the soldering of the spacers.

 

Then I added the centre wheels and found them to be a bit low so that the chassis rocked about them. Very strange. Wheels out, check the alignment of the bearings which had previously seen fine. A straight edge showed them to be all in line. So before doing anything drastic I decided to check again with the wheels back in. Now the chassis rocked with just the outer wheels in place...............Cue exasperated noises.

 

Eventually Mr Stupid realised that he had selected two sets of tender axles and one set of bogie wheels for the job..........the bogie wheels are 3" full scale less diameter than the tender wheels. Having at one point the smaller wheels at one end caused rocking about the centre axle. Mixing wheels of different diameters caused the diagonal rock. Picking the correct set of wheels then showed that all was OK for alignment with all wheels on the ground at the same time. I have made many mistakes in a build before, but I think this is the first time I have been that stupid. 

 

Feeling pleased with myself for sorting out this stupidity, I laminated the brake blocks, fitted the shackles to two cross beams and added the wires at the end of the cross beams for the hangers. Cut out and clean up the hangers then add the 0.9mm wire that supports the hangers. At this point I think it strange that the wire between the frames is going to interfere with the chassis to body fixing screws.

 

And then Mr Stupid ( the prequel) makes itself known. The carefully laid out end spacers have been nicely located at the wrong ends............I still don't know how I did this. I knew which end was which, the instructions are clear.......... 

 

At this point a visit to the gas torch was in order and the frames disassembled and cleaned up.

 

All of this wrongful assembly had been diligently recorded for the instruction supplement............

 

Then reassembled correctly after which we have a chassis that despite my failings appears to be square and with the bits in the correct places. But my goal of completing it in one evening failed.

 

And that, dear reader, is the inauspicious start to this build thread. 

 

Photos to follow.


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#8 david.hill64

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 13:02

Much better progress:

 

A rolling chassis:

 

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And the majority of the superstructure complete. There is still some gap filling for the coal rails as they are just tacked on for now.

 

This has gone together quite easily. The lack of a diagram in the instructions did cause some head scratching, but I am taking photos and will include the with future sales (and for anybody else who has an unmade kit).

 

 

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#9 dibateg

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 18:40

I'm looking forward to your tutorial on this David - as you know, I have one of these to do!

 

Regards

Tony



#10 david.hill64

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 03:16

OK, grab a coffee, this may be a long post......

 

Tender frame assembly.

 

Take the two frame parts and emboss the rivets for the guard irons, and add 6 bearings.

 

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Take the frame spacers, noting which end is which, and form them to shape.

 

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Next fix the frame spacers, preferably in the correct positions and NOT as shown here. Check that all is square and the wheels all sit on the ground at the same time. (It helps to use wheels of the same diameter)

 

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Laminate the brake blocks: 5 completed here, one to go.

 

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Fit lengths of 0.9mm wire through the frame assembly and prepare the hangers and cross beams.

 

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Add lengths of 0.7mm wire to the ends of the beams having first located brake shackles onto two beams.

 

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The brake hangers fit with the two holes towards the bottom.

 

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Add the cross beams. The one without the shackle to the rear.

 

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Add the brake shoes, pull rods plus the 0.9mm wire and levers that represent the brake shaft. There are two types of pull rod included in the kit. A simplified one or one with forked ends. I used the simplified one. It's probably best to work from the front, setting the shoes a small distance from the wheels. When happy with the alignment, the cross beams are soldered to the hangers, but do not solder the top of the hanger to the support wire. Similarly, so not solder the front pull rod to the lever on the brake shaft. In this way it is possible to remove the brake gear and wheels.

 

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You will then have a complete rolling chassis. I had to swap the frame spacers to get this as I had stupidly mis-located them.

 

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Tender Body Construction

 

The instructions fail to command the fitting of the 4 6BA nuts that will be part of the chassis retention. I chose to add them first, but there is an argument for fitting the valances first as it means that you can fit the valances and buffer beams to a flat surface.

 

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Valances and buffer beams added.

 

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Then add the frames. There is a half etched line at the rear that could be used to shorten the frames so that they do not interfere with the sprung buffers. I have chosen t put that problem aside for a while.

 

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Next the tender sides/rear. This is a single piece. First emboss the rivets (omitted in instructions). I formed the bends around a rod, using the etched rebate in the floor as a template. Then the flares were bent out 60 degrees and the sides added to the floor. I had used 180 degree solder for the valences and buffer beams and 140 degree for subsequent work.

 

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Tank top supports folded and located.

 

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The next job was a bit of  ahead scratcher: fitting the tool box supports to the front. With hindsight it is obvious, but in the absence of any diagram, did require some thought.

 

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Only later when checking through the components list did I realise that I probably should have fitted the tank top front support to the tender front, but in practice it would be impossible to follow the later instructions to push up the tank front to meet the toolbox supports. I think this part (6) is probably superfluous.

 

Next job is to fit the tank top and tank front. The instructions suggest that you may need to remove a little material from the front of the tank top. I did, but not much. When happy with the fit I soldered the tank top to the top supports on the inside of the tank. Then added the tank front and  pushed up the tank top so that it joined with the tool box supports as suggested in the instructions. This would be impossible if the support had been added to the front plate, though it would probably be possible, though fiddly, to align things whilst locating the front plate.

 

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Next up I formed and added the rear corner pieces to the flares. Some fettling required!

 

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As per the instructions I added the beading to the tender top, but on reflection it would be better to wait until the handrails are fitted, see below.

 

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The front platform and shovelling plate formed and added.

 

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I then added the front handrails and top support bracket. I think these should be added before the tender beading as it seems that the beading should continue forward from the flares to run on top of the handrail support. I had to add additional beading and blend it in. 

 

I have also tacked the coal rails in place. They need soldering along their length to fill gaps with the flares.

 

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Altogether that has been satisfying, despite my stupidity in the beginning. I have to add the cab doors. These are interesting as they are a solid sheet that folds back flat along the tender side when open. The kit includes some brass hinges so it will be possible to make them workable. 

 

There are steps to make up and lamp irons to fit. I have not been able to find a photo of the tender rear. Did the tenders carry 6 lamp irons?

 

I need to work out a solution to the buffer problem. I will follow up PAD's link to how to convert standard sprung buffers to a self contained type and see if that will work with these.

 

After this there will be the whitemetal castings to fit: axle boxes, springs, tool boxes, tank filler and brake standard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#11 N15class

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 13:13

Coming together nicely.

The LBSCR liked to have their doors folding back against the tender sides.
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#12 david.hill64

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 14:45

This evening I decided to put the tender to one side and start on the loco chassis. There are some bits and bobs that I still have in Bangkok and I am returning this weekend to collect them. Silly things like masking tape...........

 

Unusually the frames come in three parts for reasons that are explained in the instructions. First up is the centre section.

 

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No issues to report, just take time to ensure that everything is square and level and you end up with a 7mm roller skate:

 

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Next up is the front section.

 

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Again care is needed to get the alignments correct. The mating areas need to be properly cleaned up to remove all traces of the etching cusp, but you then have tight fitting parts that are then soldered.

 

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The centre and front sections then need to be joined. I found that I needed to file a bit off the centre section front spacer so that the brake cylinder support spacer on the front section mated nicely . Alignment is done via 3 0.9mm wires that are cut back after. I left the inside parts on the upper two wires in situ.

 

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Next up will be the rear frames.

 

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Meanwhile I have also blackened the wheels and oiled the axles. I am downwind of the Taipei volcano and I think it must be the sulphur in the air that is causing steel parts to tarnish very quickly.


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#13 david.hill64

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 14:26

This evening I assembled the rear frame section and joined it to the centre section. You need a few hands to hold everything in alignment while soldering. For some reason this reminded me of  Mrs Hill's observation when we were courting that I had more hands than an octopus, so at least they are being put to good use now.

 

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Peter, teh kit designer has done a good job in thinking out how to get everything to align using the tabs and wire pins. I was a bit concerned but it has built up into a robust chassis.

 

Next up was the job that I usually do first: laminating the coupling rods.

 

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I made a bet that a four wheeled loco would not present any problems with alignment and spacing. I won the bet! I did my usual trick of discarding the supplied Slater's crankpins and replacing them with 10 BA screws. I tapped the bushes and use them inverted with a 10 BA washer to provide the stand off from the wheel face.

 

This has resulted in a freely rolling chassis. 

 

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The kit doesn't include any axle washers, so I will add these to future builds and update the kitting list. This already has been amended to add additional 0.9mm wire.

 

So now it is time for a glass of red wine.


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#14 Horsetan

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 15:28

.....I am downwind of the Taipei volcano and I think it must be the sulphur in the air that is causing steel parts to tarnish very quickly.

 

This is probably the first time that a Brighton Atlantic has been "made in Taiwan".


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#15 david.hill64

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 15:03

This evening showed that some important clarifications in the instructions would be useful!

 

First I realised that I should not have bent the outer frame bracket (part CC): what I thought were fold lines are the locating slots for the outer frames. So I unsoldered them, bent them straight again, and resoldered  the outer frames.

 

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Note also the nut for the pony pivot in the rear spacer of the central section. More on that in a moment. 

 

Assembly of the pony truck was easy but when I came to fit it, it was obviously too far back.

 

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Then it struck me: Mr Stupid had soldered the rear pony pivot spacer (FF) the wrong way round: the bend should go forwards. It was not going to be easy to disassemble all of this, so I took the cowards way out and bent the fold 180 degrees, removed the nut and soldered it back on the top. With that done the alignment of the pony is fine. I shall now have to be very careful about what photos go in the instructions!

 

Next up was the bogie.

 

Here are the basic parts:

 

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The bogie has a side control feature:

 

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I will take more photos later to show the springing inside. I had to cut down the springs to get the right degree of control. I will also add some whitemetal bogie springs. To date these haven't been included in the kit, but following a suggestion from Andy at Ragstone, I will be including them. If you have bought an H2 off me recently I will send you a set.

 

So here we are with all wheels in.

 

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There will be a bit of a hiatus as I am flying back to Bangkok for the weekend to pick up more of my belongings that are stored there, including some modelling bits. I may have to abandon my extensive stock of paint, unless I can find a shipper who will take it. A colleague at work here in Taoyuan has located a model shop in Taipei that sticks Tamiya paints, including an aerosol etch primer, so when I get back I will see if I can find the shop. The belongings include masking tape which I will need for the next part of the tender construction. I haven't found any here yet, though I am sure I could get it at teh B and Q in Taipei.........

 

 

 

 


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#16 N15class

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 17:31

Glad I'm not the only one that gets things wrong when reading instructions.

 

Looking good. Lots of detail work to do now.



#17 david.hill64

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 01:15

Glad I'm not the only one that gets things wrong when reading instructions.

 

Looking good. Lots of detail work to do now.

Thanks Peter. My excuse is the lack of drawings.........hence the photos being taken for construction as I will use them in a CD to include with the kit. Unfortunately, some of the captions will be 'not like this!'


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#18 david.hill64

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 15:05

Back to the workbench this evening after a weekend in Bangkok. I had almost forgotten what a great city it is, but then having had to pay £10 for a pint of IPA I remembered it does have its drawbacks. The check-in clerk wasn't too happy when I tried checking in 74kg of luggage on the way back..........

 

I decided that I would leave the chassis alone for a while and get on with the body so that I can check the fit of the motor.

 

First job is to form the valence jig.

 

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Then anneal the running plate.

 

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I discovered later that I had not annealed the front end as much as I should have done, and making bends was harder than it should be, so I will add a cautionary note to the instructions to that effect.

 

Next add the drag beam ensuring it is vertical and central.

 

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Then, starting at the rear, solder the running plate to the valences.

 

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This loco is going to be Trevose Head in late BR days so we need the Maunsell cab. The cab front needs to be re-profiled slightly, using the etched area as guidance.

 

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I annealed the cab roof.

 

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Then rolled the centre section and tacked it to the cab front.

 

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I used a 2mm drill as a former for the bend at the top of the cab sides and checked the fit on the running plate before soldering up.

 

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Happy that all was in order I soldered the cab to the running plate in the etched slots provided.

 

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Next I came across another boo-boo in the packing list which doesn't list the 8BA fasteners needed in the next steps. I'll update it. Three nuts added to the rear firebox former (these are M2, so don't tell anybody)....

 

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Then the spacers were added ensuring they were square.

 

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Then the middle former added.

 

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Then the forward spacers soldered in place. I have temporarily added the front former. The instructions say to add an 8BA nut to act as a location for the boiler, but I think it would be better to use a screw and attach the boiler by locating it on the screw and using a very long nut spinner to secure it. The jury is still out.

 

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It's late so I thought I would just check to see how this fitted to the cab, and how it might look with the boiler in place.

 

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Quite pleased with this evening's endeavours.

 

 

 

 

 


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#19 N15class

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 15:18

Looks very good David.

 

A good session at this stage makes a big difference to the overall look. At detailing stage it's a completely different story. 


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#20 AdeMoore

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 20:07

Nice work your doing here David enjoying seeing come together.
Cheers
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#21 Horsetan

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 12:32

I'm just sitting here looking at that beautifully-crafted brass......  :sungum:


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#22 david.hill64

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 15:04

Not too much to report tonight.

 

First up was fitting the firebox wrapper to the former. Don't forget to scribe the alignment marks onto the wrapper before removing it from the fret. I used these marks to set up the alignment and then a quick dab with a hot iron to tack in place. I then soldered the wrapper to the centre and front formers. With that solid, I then removed the centre piece of the middle former so that the iron could get to solder the rear former and wrapper together.

 

You can see that I decided to use a screw for alignment with the boiler.

 

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With the soldering completed, I removed the alignment screws and then used them to fit the firebox to the cab/running plate.

 

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Happy that that had gone OK, I soldered the boiler along the seam and added the rear and front formers. I made a drop off with the front one as it is in the wrong way round. I did that deliberately to see the alignment mark, but it means that I am going to have to fill the alignment mark and the two blind holes for unwanted handrail knobs as this former is the smokebox front. To fit the rear former I temporarily inserted two small screws and nuts so that I could get the alignment correct. 

 

With the boiler formed I tried it with the rest of the loco.

 

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Next up is fitting the boiler bands and firebox details, frame extensions and saddle. Followed by splashers. Once that lot fits well, I will permanently fit the firebox and boiler and cut away the valence jig to see how it fits to the chassis. I'll then complete the chassis.

 


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#23 PAD

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 16:21

Hi David,
Looking good as usual.

I like the firebox former and valence jig They do make it easier to fit the wrapper and especially the running plate.

I understand you are making a test build for new instructions, but it looks like the design of the kit lends itself to making the cab, firebox and boiler detachable from the running plate if desired. It makes painting and lining easier if you can do that.

Cheers,
Peter

#24 david.hill64

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 00:14

Hi David,
Looking good as usual.

I like the firebox former and valence jig They do make it easier to fit the wrapper and especially the running plate.

I understand you are making a test build for new instructions, but it looks like the design of the kit lends itself to making the cab, firebox and boiler detachable from the running plate if desired. It makes painting and lining easier if you can do that.

Cheers,
Peter

Peter,

 

Thanks. The written instructions are not bad, which is just as well as there are no diagrams! I agree about making things detachable. The cab is already securely fixed to the footplate but it may be possible to hav it so the firebox boiler assembly can be attached to the spectacle plate. At the front end it would need a fastener into the saddle. A self tapping screw may be the answer here.



#25 david.hill64

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 08:43

Work continues more or less as planned. I haven't yet done the boiler bands and firebox details. Instead I moved onto laminating the frame extensions and fitting those and the saddle.

 

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I have since fitted the front cover, but forgot to take a photo...........

 

The I built up four splashers.

 

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And fitted them to the footplate.

 

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The instructions note that you will not be able to refit the boiler until some meat has been taken out of the splasher tops. I know no way of doing this other than slowly taking metal out and checking the fit.

 

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But with that done, it is possible to refit the boiler.

 

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I have been thinking about Peter's comment regarding making the boiler/firebox detachable. I think if I slot the bottom of the smokebox and open out the chimney (which I would do anyway, then fitting a nut in the saddle will enable a screw to hold the front in place while the rear is held in by screws through the spectacle plate. What I will need to check is whether those screws will be accessible with the cab floor in place. If not there are a couple of other holes that could be put to use.

 

I've just been shopping and bought a bottle of red wine as a treat for working hard, happy in the knowledge that this bottle cost less than the pint of IPA I drank last Saturday.........

 


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