Bl**dy Ratio again

[Steamport Southport]

Sprue cutters? Oh you mean side cutters. That's like "wedding flowers" or "funeral flowers" same normal flowers just with the price jacked up because a word have been added on to describe them. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-pcs-3-5-Precision-Flush-Mini-Wire-Cutter-Pliers-Cable-Snips-Side-Cutter-UK-/113005027756 will do the job, same tool, half the price, no fancy name or repackaging.

 

Nope. They are designed specifically to cut plastic sprues so they are sprue cutters. If I wanted side cutters then I would buy side cutters.

 

If you want to buy crap tools from China then you can. I reckon they will last five minutes whereas my Xuron Sprue Cutters have a lifetime guarantee and will last years.

 

https://xuron.com/index.php/main/faq

 

 

There's the old saying that you get what you pay for.

 

 

Jason

[Georgeconna]

Whilst admiring Ratio for their commitment to the hobby over many years, and their overall quality and attention to detail, the unfortunate fact is that I have repeatedly had problems with their kits in recent years.  Possibly the constitution of the plastic has changed, but I have found it to be not only difficult to paint, though that problem seems to be solvable with washing up liquid, but the finer parts are brittle and next to impossible to remove from sprues without damaging them.  My swan neck lamps were a disaster; I think there were a dozen in the kit, of which I managed to build 5.  There is no need at all for the necks to be a separate part, and they should be moulded with the top collar of the post and the lamp head.

 

A signal box gave me a lot of trouble with the window frames for the same reason, that the parts are too fine and brittle and break far too easily.

 

4-wheel GWR coaches went together reasonably well, though the footboard brackets are flimsy, but the supplied wheelsets drop out of the bearings.  This is clearly not a plastic composition issue, and of course the wheelsets are not the ones originally envisaged for the kits, but the whole experience leads to a feeling of poor quality and poor quality control.

 

I know I have said this before, but I mean it this time; I'm just not going to buy any more Ratio stuff.  I don't think I'm that bad a modeller (although there are plenty better!) but Ratio's stuff is too hard for me.

 

I've never had a problem with getting acrylic paint to stick to things in general, though some materials need an undercoat of matt  varnish.  I am happy with the finishes I get from acrylic paint and enjoy working with it.

 

Maybe use an Eched Saw instead of a blade, I know I do for smaller parts.

 

I can vouch for these guys, Some sweet stuff indeed. The Nano Set is the biz.

 

http://www.radubstore.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=77_112&zenid=6a1d1a4b0e1727ee271e44d710f2daa4

[Torper]

I've always found a sharp craft knife or scalpel quite adequate for cutting plastic sprues, but there again I don't make an awful lot of platsic kits.  What I would find much more useful is something that would do the same thing for etched brass kits, but not even Zuron appear to make a side cutter that will both last and deal successfully and accurately with brass, including brass wire.

 

DT

[Jeff Smith]

Xuron make some very good long lasting cutters but they are not cheap. Using cutters on brass or n/s etches can cause distortion. A cheap and effective solution is to make a small chisel using a 2" piece of old half inch hacksaw blade. The chisel blade need only be about 2 or 3 mm wide and honed on one side like a wood chisel so you can get right to the edge of the etch. Use with a small hammer onto a firm surface to give a neat cut without distortion. Luckily etches have one completely flat surface, polystyrene sprues generally don't, hence the need for cutting from both sides such as with very fine sidecutters.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Jeff Smith

[The Johnster]

Nope. They are designed specifically to cut plastic sprues so they are sprue cutters. If I wanted side cutters then I would buy side cutters.

 

If you want to buy crap tools from China then you can. I reckon they will last five minutes whereas my Xuron Sprue Cutters have a lifetime guarantee and will last years.

 

https://xuron.com/index.php/main/faq

 

 

There's the old saying that you get what you pay for.

 

 

Jason

 

There is something to be said for having a cheap set of tools, just not for 'proper' work.  Pound shop screwdrivers for stirring paint and levering things, kiddies' toy paintbrushes for clearing debris out of flangeways, that sort of thing!  I also run two craft knives simultaneously, one with fresh blades and one with used once I don't mind messing up!

[Graham456]

There is something to be said for having a cheap set of tools, just not for 'proper' work. Pound shop screwdrivers for stirring paint and levering things, kiddies' toy paintbrushes for clearing debris out of flangeways, that sort of thing! I also run two craft knives simultaneously, one with fresh blades and one with used once I don't mind messing up!

No,no,no, their is no something to be said in this advise!

Their is a lot to be said in this very sound advise

Cheep chuckaway tools have their uses in saving nice ones for important jobs

Edited August 10, 2018 by Graham456

[Torper]

 I also run two craft knives simultaneously, one with fresh blades and one with used once I don't mind messing up!

 

At what stage does the one with a fresh blade become the one with a used blade?  Seriously, however, good advice.

 

I did once ask a well-known tools retailer if he stocked a side cutter, however expensive, that I could use on brass wire, which is categorised as hard - how about a set of Zurons, which he stocked?.  His recommendation was not to spend a lot of money but instead to merely buy cheap ones and throw them away when they no longer worked as even a Zuron wouldn't cope with brass wire for long.

 

DT

Edited August 10, 2018 by Torper

[Jeff Smith]

There are extra hard bladed cutters for hard brass and spring steel. Regular side cutters can't cope with these materials without risk of notching. I have notched a pair of Xuron rail cutters trying to trim some thin spring steel point operating wire....

Edited August 10, 2018 by Jeff Smith

[The Johnster]

At what stage does the one with a fresh blade become the one with a used blade?  Seriously, however, good advice.  I did once ask a well-known tools retailer if he stocked a side cutter, however expensive, that I could use on brass wire, which is categorised as hard - how about a set of Zurons, which he stocked?.  His recommendation was not to spend a lot of money but instead to merely buy cheap ones and throw them away when they no longer worked as even a Zuron wouldn't cope with brass wire for long.

 

DT

 

A fresh blade becomes a worn one when the fresh blade knife is used for a 'proper' job and a fresh blade is put in it; at this point the blade in the gash knife is replaced by the one from the good one and thrown away.  The actual point at which this happens is arbitrary and not always entirely motivated by rationality; it's 'when I think it should be replaced'.  But a new kit, or the start of some project, will usually trigger it.

 

The advantages may be psychological rather than actual, but they are advantages just the same.

 

My biggest issue with cutters was finding something that would make a clean cut on bicycle brake and gear cables, without crushing them and fraying the ends, which have to be fed through an outer cable.  My local hardware store, a very traditional sort of place, sold me a pair that I had doubts about with the offer that, if I could show him they didn't work, he'd give me a pair that did free of charge and the money back on the first pair.  He proved true to his word when I showed him the mess his cutter had made of a cable; cost him £26.

 

I extend this two level approach to my tools in general; there are the tools and the precious tools.  You can borrow the tools, but not the precious tools, though I will come to your house and do the job with them for you; they do not leave my possession.  For they are Possessions, while the tools are just chattels.

[Jeff Smith]

Of course another way to cut hard/stranded cable (I use 5mm multi-stranded balloon cable for trees) is with a slitting disc.

[sharris]

I've always found a sharp craft knife or scalpel quite adequate for cutting plastic sprues, but there again I don't make an awful lot of platsic kits.  What I would find much more useful is something that would do the same thing for etched brass kits, but not even Zuron appear to make a side cutter that will both last and deal successfully and accurately with brass, including brass wire.

 

DT

I use one of these long nosed end cutters for removing items from brass frets

 

 

It's got a reach of a bit over 3cm which makes it good for reaching over parts to snip out those closer to the centre of a fret.

 

 

Sadly it has no markings on it and I can't remember where it came from.

[Jeff Smith]

I have a Xuron one, a bit shorter though.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Jeff Smith

[rue_d_etropal]

When it comes to acryllic paint, it is not all the same. I have found that matt grey acryllic paint sticks far better than any other colour. Possibly why the Halfords acryllic grey primer works so well. I also wonder if primer paint has something extra in it, to make it stick better. I am always looking for cheaper alternatives.

I have also found that once a coat of grey primer(or ordinary grey acryllic) has been applied, an allowed to dry properly(often more than 4 hours, as being touch dry is not good enough), then you can paint with nice cheap teest pot emulsion, availble from most good DIY stores.

I try to clean off paintbrushes i a pot of water, building up a pot of gung over time(it can get a bit smelly!), and then use it for weathering(wet technique, not dry brushing). I do find I have to clean brushes propery sometimes, but sometimes it is easier to buy more cheap brushes.

[tyler 04]

i have never had a problem with ratio or airfix/Dapol kits use washing soda this will degrease plastic or metal kits a fibreglass pencil will provide a key if need be humbrol no 1 primer acrylic will be your best beti

[tyler 04]

I have never had the slightest problem with them - and I had well over 40 feet of Ratio fencing on my last layout. I just spray them very simply with Railmatch Sleeper Grime (enamel - rattle can from Howes) and then dry-brush over them when dry to add detail colour with various shades of Humbrol.For the record I NEVER use acrylic (and never will). Have used enamel for the last 45+ years and I'm certainly not changing now. To be fair I did try acrylic once (for all of about two hours) when it first appeared - and frankly couldn't get it to stick to ANYTHING. I never used it again.But I do think that the initial heading to this thread was both unfair to Ratio, who have been a main supporter of the hobby for decades - and a little out of order.

[sharris]

Had a very pleasant Ratio Sunday making good progress on 4 50' arc roof LNWR coaches. 

 

Now the question, to scrape or not to scrape... Ratio give gas and electric options and I'm building them as if they've been converted from gas to electric lighting. Did they go to the trouble of removing all gas piping from the roofs (on the kits the pipes are moulded into the roof), or just disconnect them but leave them in-situ during the conversion process? Unless I didn't read them completely enough, the instructions are a bit vague in that respect and I can't find any clear photos. 

 

Edit: just discovered I already asked this question 2 1/2 years ago when I originally got the kits out! 

Edited August 15, 2018 by sharris

[andypops]

I'm surprised at the recommendation, by some, to use washing-up liquid as a degreaser, especially as it contain Lanolin, added to help prevent hands from getting dry skin, it's a natural (from sheep fleece) greasy additive. 

Before I need to paint anything, whether plastic or metal, I give it a quick blow over from a can of Halfords Surface Cleaner.

Sorry, but you are misinformed.

 

The chemicals which actually dissolve the grease / oil / silicone on your dinner plate / clothes / plastic kits are called surfactants. I won’t go into excessive detail but try to imagine them as small uninflated balloons the water. If they find grease / oil / silicone, this is pulled inside the balloon which swells up; these big (relatively!) droplets are called micelles. You may have seen a makeup remover advertised called “micellar water” recently - more on that later. But micelles are what dissolve the grease into the water.

 

Micelles have an enormous ability to suck up oil - you may have seen just how little washing up liquid is needed to decrease even the filthiest greasiest pan. Each micelle can hold many times (sometime, many hundreds of times) it’s own weight in oil. So, whether or not lanolin (or any other “moisturiser”) is contained in a washing up liquid formulation, it will still still have the ability to remove the vast majority of contamination in a single rinse. Otherwise, putting it in the washing up liquid would be patently absurd!

 

Regarding the Halfords surface cleaner, I personally would be STRONGLY against using it, particularly on plastics or in an enclosed area like a flat or even a kitchen. If you look at the MSDS (materials safety data sheet) it states its primary constituents, and all of the known hazards. I would be most worried about the light naphtha and (unspecified isomers of) xylene. Both not nice chemicals, which will stay on your surface and could even eat away at the plastic or any paint on it. Look them up if you don’t believe me. Oh, and these 'surface cleaners' work by dissolving the grease into more grease, and this being wiped / dripping off or evaporating. So, the surface remains greasy but the silicone has been exchanged for an alternative grease.

 

It is really not formulated for modelling with, and while you’re free to do your own thing, I couldn’t be paid enough to use it for modelling purposes in the home. I would even think twice about using it in the garden.

 

 

* About that micellar water. It basically means “soap and water”. And that’s probably what is being sold, at many pounds per bottle. Advertising is a wonderful thing!

Edited August 31, 2018 by andypops

[rob D2]

A fresh blade becomes a worn one when the fresh blade knife is used for a 'proper' job and a fresh blade is put in it; at this point the blade in the gash knife is replaced by the one from the good one and thrown away.  The actual point at which this happens is arbitrary and not always entirely motivated by rationality; it's 'when I think it should be replaced'.  But a new kit, or the start of some project, will usually trigger it.

 

The advantages may be psychological rather than actual, but they are advantages just the same.

 

My biggest issue with cutters was finding something that would make a clean cut on bicycle brake and gear cables, without crushing them and fraying the ends, which have to be fed through an outer cable.  My local hardware store, a very traditional sort of place, sold me a pair that I had doubts about with the offer that, if I could show him they didn't work, he'd give me a pair that did free of charge and the money back on the first pair.  He proved true to his word when I showed him the mess his cutter had made of a cable; cost him £26.

 

I extend this two level approach to my tools in general; there are the tools and the precious tools.  You can borrow the tools, but not the precious tools, though I will come to your house and do the job with them for you; they do not leave my possession.  For they are Possessions, while the tools are just chattels.

 

Good call. I find the 300 cocktail sticks I brought the best investment for doing stuff ever

[Il Grifone]

At what stage does the one with a fresh blade become the one with a used blade?  Seriously, however, good advice.

 

omis

 

With a Swann-Morten blade it depends on what you are cutting, but as soon as it fails to cut cleanly,

 

With all the others, immediately!

 

For removing parts from sprues, I use either a chisel blade for thin connections or a fine saw for thicker ones. It really depends on the risk of damage to the part. For example axleguards are often firmly attached to the sprue and the saw is essential.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Steamport Southport]

For cheap craft knives look out in bargain shops like The Works, Home & Bargain and B&M.

 

I've picked a couple of these up before for about two pounds each.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/13pcs-Hobby-Knife-Kit-Set-Modelling-Penknife-Blades-Arts-Craft-Knives-Knifes/1593883686?iid=253761164255&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3Defa1c18eaf5441659c880917d5691a74%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D273111004041%26itm%3D253761164255&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

 

 

 

Not exactly Swann Morton or X Acto quality. But not bad for a cheap set.

 

 

Jason

[Il Grifone]

For cheap craft knives look out in bargain shops like The Works, Home & Bargain and B&M.

 

I've picked a couple of these up before for about two pounds each.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/13pcs-Hobby-Knife-Kit-Set-Modelling-Penknife-Blades-Arts-Craft-Knives-Knifes/1593883686?iid=253761164255&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3Defa1c18eaf5441659c880917d5691a74%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D273111004041%26itm%3D253761164255&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

 

 

 

Not exactly Swann Morton or X Acto quality. But not bad for a cheap set.

 

 

Jason

 

OK for heavier jobs, but watch your hands! I've had the blades snap in two. Yesterday i saw a auto-retractible one advertised, but have forgotten where....

 

When i started modelling (fifties : ), My first proper (as opposed to single edge razor blades!*) knives were X-Acto (sold under the Trix name) and they were excellent (still not as good as Swann -Morten though). They seemed to deteriorate in quality once they left the Trix fold, but then I discovered Swann-Morten and it ceased to matter....

 

There are always the Pound Shop sets for the odd non critical job, The chisel blades are quite good for scraping off unwanted plastic.  I forgot one of these in my cabin baggage once and it was confiscated by Airport Security (you can hardly use them for a terrorist attack??). I was told I could reclaim them on my return but the charge was from £8! Yeah sure!

 

* We used these at the BBC for editing 2" video tape. The metal editing blocks soon took the edge off. I still have a 1/4" one somewhere, but. I haven't used it for years.