N Gauge help for an OO numpty

[jamest]

*Not* a suggestion for this year, but I couldn't resist extending the layout in a "fills the board with track" fashion, adding a carriage siding (which will hold 4 coaches easily) and basic loco storage, to allow for the inevitable rolling stock creep.

 

 

Thanks Simon - just what I need when I'm laying what I thought was my final plan - more to consider:blink:!

 

Seriously - I know you only mean it as a 'future' example and it does look interesting, but I think we'll stick with good storage (long boxes with flexi in) off layout and swapping over stock (although as I write that does sound like a recipe for disaster!).

 

On the subject of wiring I've thought through my requirements and simplified Kris's suggestion a little - I see the reason for the 7 sections but I think I might simplify it to 5 with the minus that I can't isolate a train on the inner loop right when crossing to the yard from the outer loop. It keeps my soldering hidden at the ends and away from the points - and simplifies the control panel for my son (and me)!

 

I will isolate between each colour section - I'd value your opinion(s)!

 

 

I hope to spend some time locked away in the garage today in between putting the Xmas lights up on the house (does this ever end!!!)

 

Cheers,

James

[Kris]

Simplifying it will make it easier to run. There are a couple of variations.

 

1. Isolate as I initially suggested but connect the 2 sections containing the points to section 3. Doing this would allow you to easily adding in the extra sections in the future should you find you wish to.

2. Do as I suggest above but add in an on - off switch on the loop section (whilst keeping the points live). This would allow you to isolate a train in the loop, and add in the extra sections should you want to do this in the future.

[jamest]

Hi all,

 

I've completed the main track laying - apart from the sidings and I'm about to start wiring up.

 

Quick question before I commit - I went for 7/0.2 wire as recommended elsewhere for N.

 

It does seem awfully thin - but it fits the toggle switch holes well (any thicker and it wouldn't) - and the longest run of wire I will have is about 36" max so the voltage drop shouldn't be to bad. I do not intend to go DCC so that is not a consideration (I'm using common return anyway).

 

Does this sound ok?

 

I think this thread will move to layouts under construction section next.

 

Cheers,

James

[Kris]

That wire is fine, it's the same as I have used successfully, and is usable as dropper wire for DCC.

[Chinahand]

Yes 7/0.2 multi-strand wire is OK for droppers UP TO 300mm long.

 

Any longer than that though and you should increase the size to 16/0.2 (or just double up 2 lengths of 7/0.2).

[Steven B]

Yes 7/0.2 multi-strand wire is OK for droppers UP TO 300mm long.

Any longer than that though and you should increase the size to 16/0.2 (or just double up 2 lengths of 7/0.2).

 

7/0.2 is good for currents up to about 1.5A, 16/02. is good for 3A.

 

As long as you're not powering dozens of locos via the same set of droppers, you should be OK with wire lengths of more than a foot (300mm) with 7/0.2.

 

I use 10/0.1 wire for my droppers (500mA rated), and can quite happily run a couple of N Gauge locos using DCC via the same dropper. As you're using DC I doubt you'll have any problems with a few meters of 7/0.2. Many people supply their track at few intervals and don't have any trouble (nickel-silver track having a greater resistance per meter than copper wire).

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

[Chinahand]

Hi Stephen

 

Being a 'belts & braces' sort of guy I prefer to cater for a worst case situation. i.e. at start up when the current draw down will be at maximum. Hence my suggestion that 300mm should be the maximum length for 7/0.2 droppers.

[jamest]

Hi Stephen

 

Being a 'belts & braces' sort of guy I prefer to cater for a worst case situation. i.e. at start up when the current draw down will be at maximum. Hence my suggestion that 300mm should be the maximum length for 7/0.2 droppers.

 

I think I might have to go with the braces as well!

 

All wired up last night and the big swirch on was not very successful:( .

 

This is a dark place for me as my trouble shooting skills aren't good and its difficult for anyone else to help without being there. I 'directly' fed a section with bigger wire I had to hand (not sure of the exact spec) with better results. The loco I used for test is new (obviously) and my soldering leaves a lot to be desired (I though OO track was tricky!) - I also think my end stripping can be a bit frenzied sometimes.

 

I plan to go back to basics with the outer loop sections (2) and feeding each rail with thicker wire. At least I have a starting point then - rather than just standing there scratching my head! - I can always add the switches after getting a good foundation.

 

Cheers,

James

[Kris]

 

All wired up last night and the big swirch on was not very successful:( .

 

 

This is a dark place for me as my trouble shooting skills aren't good and its difficult for anyone else to help without being there. I 'directly' fed a section with bigger wire I had to hand (not sure of the exact spec) with better results. The loco I used for test is new (obviously) and my soldering leaves a lot to be desired (I though OO track was tricky!) - I also think my end stripping can be a bit frenzied sometimes.

 

 

Did nothing at all work?

 

Did you wire both controllers in? If this is the case it might be the common return causing the issue. Try removing the wiring from one of the controllers to see if this allow some running.

 

The other thought is that there is a short occurring very near the start of the circuit (I say this as a short later in the circuit would be more likely to just remove one section). Look closely at your soldering, have you managed to join a connection up accidentally? (From experience this can be a right pain to find).

 

Do you have a mulitmeter to check for current? If you don't get a pair of crocodile clips and a 12v bulb. This will allow you to see where the power is getting to and to see if it is a soldering issue.

 

 

[jamest]

Hi Kris,

 

No nothing with the cab control. I was only using one controller, the combi I bought - as the other one is in the set santa is bringing - that shouldn't make a difference should it? I left the +ve to the second controller alone. I swapped the feeds (-ve & +ve are not marked on the combi) and I tried the switches in both positions (I heard that the power can be the opposite feed to the lever dircetion) - no joy.

 

I only had movement when I went back to basics and connected the controller to the wiring on an individual section. Even then it wasn't great.

 

I don't own a multimeter (and I'm not sure I could read one if I did) - I should have already got a blub and leads - that would be useful. I think the bottom line is my soldering is poor - it involves too much hanging around on the rail with the iron (need a more powerful one ) and too much solder and is very messy - my sole check is to tug the wire to see if it comes off!

 

I'll check the toggle switches and connections for shorts - I was gutted last night but I really should not have been in so much of a hurry to see something move last night - I need to clean the rail throughly and concentrate on the inner, outer and other main section individually.

 

It may mean dedicating one controller to the outer loop and the other to the inner and goods yard for now - no common return and the ability to add simple on/off switches to halve the loops later. I know if my method is wrong any approach should fail but I feel more confident working through in this way.

 

Thanks for the advice,

James

 

 

[Kris]

Even a small iron will solder n gauge track without issue. When soldering n gauge track I normally roughed up the underside of the track I wanted to solder as I found it helps the solder to attach. I also found it handy to tin the track and the wire first.

 

Digital multimeters area easy to read. Just set to the right setting and see what it says. The problem I have is working out which setting I need to have it on mind boggling.

 

Just using one controller should have made it easier to wire. I suspect that you have a short somewhere that only shows when the controller is attached to the wiring. This could be one of the wires crossed over to the wrong track. If this is the case it could be causing a short that cuts out the controller.

[jamest]

Even a small iron will solder n gauge track without issue. When soldering n gauge track I normally roughed up the underside of the track I wanted to solder as I found it helps the solder to attach. I also found it handy to tin the track and the wire first.

 

Digital multimeters area easy to read. Just set to the right setting and see what it says. The problem I have is working out which setting I need to have it on mind boggling.

 

Just using one controller should have made it easier to wire. I suspect that you have a short somewhere that only shows when the controller is attached to the wiring. This could be one of the wires crossed over to the wrong track. If this is the case it could be causing a short that cuts out the controller.

 

Hi Kris,

 

I'm going to go over the wiring tomorrow afternoon (tonight if I have time but xmas play at my kids school) and check for stupid mistakes.

 

I'm lucky enough to work with soldering experts and have' aquired' some leaded solder and some flux (and lots of advice). My iron tip is suffering from abuse (I have no sponge to clean it) so I''ll head round maplins tonight who are sellin a 40W iron with stand, spronge and de-soldering tool for the 75% off price of £4.99! Will get a 12v bulb while I'm at it!

 

I'm then going to re-solder the track joins taking my time - I've pinned and glued the track in place so the sides are the only option for soldering (the positions will be out of sight at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock on the plan).

 

Cheers,

James

[Black Sheep]

I'm not sure what size this actually takes up, but is a layout that I am very much in love with but would get kicked quite hard by the wife if I started building it.

 

 

 

Like you, I am more familiar with 00 guage, but gave up after building a layout that everything but my dinning car and royal scot would fit round (and partly due to going to uni) and have switched to N for the ability to fit more in the space.

 

 

[jamest]

Hi Blacksheep,

 

That does look nice - I considered a two level layout earlier but decided against it in the end - having laid the track I'm glad I stayed with one level for my first attempt in N.

 

I would put the plan thro' a track planning piece of software first to make sure you can fit in at least second radius curves in the tight areas - they are the minimum for some engines and to be honest don't look great with a loco on them. I would either straighten the track to fit in a narrow board or have a wider board with big curves.

 

On a brighter note - literally

 

I've re-soldered 16/0.2 wire at one end of the layout armed with a new iron with a more accurate tip, leaded solder, flu and some advice. The results are very good as checked with my new checking tool (12v light bulb). I've only done the three feeds on the right this afternoon but I feel a lot better about it now.

 

I really must move to the layouts under construction area!!

 

Cheers,

James

[Black Sheep]

Sorry, I posted it without reading the whole thread.

[Kris]

I've re-soldered 16/0.2 wire at one end of the layout armed with a new iron with a more accurate tip, leaded solder, flu and some advice. The results are very good as checked with my new checking tool (12v light bulb). I've only done the three feeds on the right this afternoon but I feel a lot better about it now.

 

 

 

I glad that it's working well for you and that the checking device is worthwhile.

 

A quick e-mail to the mods will get this whole thread moved if you want that.

 

 

[locoworks]

I'm not sure what size this actually takes up, but is a layout that I am very much in love with but would get kicked quite hard by the wife if I started building it.

 

 

 

Like you, I am more familiar with 00 guage, but gave up after building a layout that everything but my dinning car and royal scot would fit round (and partly due to going to uni) and have switched to N for the ability to fit more in the space.

 

 

 

other than the turntable and crossover the actual track plan is a clone of this in my eyes?? http://www.scenicmod...llysngauge.html . i have to say i have this link in favourites as i really like the plan too, it is the sort of thing i'd like to scale down and fit in a coffee table, or get a BIG coffee table??

[Black Sheep]

It is indeed a clone, I wonder if the layout you've linked to was built from the plan but removing the turntable.

 

I wonder how big your coffee table would have to be and if i could persuade the wife

[jamest]

Hi all,

 

Last one before I go over to layouts under construction.

 

I have basically wired everything up. I've ditched common return and all five sections feed into the ten points on the front of the layout. At the moment I have wired one controller to the outside loop and the other will serve the inner loop and sidings. No isolation switching at the moment but I will purchase DPDT switches and do cab control later - it will be easy to do from the front choc block connections.

 

Here are the pictures of what Santa left earlier. The class 50 is running in as we speak. My son has no idea I have actually got any further than the plans above - when he opens the set with the oval tomorrow morning I'll suggest we go out to the dining room table to set it up and hey presto there it will be!!

 

 

Thanks to everyone who helped with the planning and problems I have encountered.

 

Merry Christmas all,

 

James

[Flying Pig]

Happy Christmas, James. I think you're going to be very popular tomorrow

[ste234]

Hi James, I bet your Son will be very pleased, to come downstairs to find a layout!

Hope he is pleased, although I'm sure he will be (and you too )

Merry Christmas!

Ste.

[Kris]

Looks good James, I hope that your son loved it, and that you have loads of fun with it in the future.

[Karhedron]

I'm not sure what size this actually takes up, but is a layout that I am very much in love with but would get kicked quite hard by the wife if I started building it.

 

That does look fun although I would prefer a fiddle yard in there somewhere. You may start off thinking that 2 trains is plenty but you always end up with more.

[Wherry Lines]

Fiddle yards on that layout could be hidden in the 'tunnels' on the above plan. You would need to arrange some form of train detection, and have a couple of lift-off sections above them to allow for maintenance and fishing out the inevitable derailed stock!

 

Alternatively, you could incorporate a junction on either the high or low level lines, and run a fiddle yard down one side, forming an L shape layout. I would imagine the junction for this would look attractively complex without being beyond the capabilities of commercial track systems....