steve fay Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Every time I visit Petes I take tunnucks caramel wafers and there tea cakes!! Paul post some pics of this county and get some normality back to this thread. !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Every time I visit Petes I take tunnucks caramel wafers and there tea cakes!! Paul post some pics of this county and get some normality back to this thread. !!! Steve, why my threads are never normal! OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Has he grown? Only joking Paul. Running for cover....... Ian You are now off my Christmas list, you bad boy. OzzyO. PS. Hows Mitch doing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Every time I visit Petes I take tunnucks caramel wafers and there tea cakes!! Paul post some pics of this county and get some normality back to this thread. !!! We never get chance to eat the Tunnucks when Pete's about! nor good pork pies. OzzyO. PS. but I do like the treacle bacon in the mornings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
11B Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Hi Paul, Off the Christmas card list........ Still waiting to meet you for a (firkin = 9 gallon) beer on the station ..... Beer and steam trains (ex LMS) in one place, must be heaven . The boss is doing fine now, she has a new job in the same building as me Thought of you this morning funnily, the new posty (gently tapping on the door ) is about your height, same colour hair (in a ponytail) and the same beard, but about 20yrs old.......... Kind regards Ian You are now off my Christmas list, you bad boy. OzzyO. PS. Hows Mitch doing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 ..... get some normality back to this thread. !!! But....this *is* normality! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Hello all, as you can see the title has changed again, I'm having a brake from the County to build this 517 in S7. I'm going to spring it using C.S.Bs. a first for me. The N/s etches, as you can see you get three different widths of frame spacers, I'm going for the widest ones, The main frames and overlays, The main frames cut from the etch, with some of the parts for the brakes between them. You get the choose of two wheel bases 15' or 15'6". This build will be the 15' type, Getting ready to solder the two frames together, my spring clamps are starting to show their age a bit now! Soldered together and the edges cleaned up. You can just make out some marking out for the axle centre lines and for the rear axle cut-out, The rear driving axle spring has gone (this will be replaced later) and some more marking out on the rear axle. The three larger holes are for the plunger pick-ups (see later) and the compensation beam pivot, All of the cut-outs for the axle boxes made and the frame just to the rear of the rear axle modified, Most of the parts for the horns and axle boxes laid out. I'm not that keen on the separate type of horn guide but for this job I should work well (I hope!), This also shows the plotted points for the fixing posts for the CSB, The frames split and the holes for the plunger pick-ups filled in. I've also drilled new holes for the Gibson plungers that I'm going to use. I may fill the front one in and re-drill it a bit higher up. I'm also thinking about fitting a plunger to the rear wheels as well, The inside of the frames showing the plugs cleaned up, you can just see the brass showing, The frames from the outside, the plugs are over length so that when I fit the overlays I can file them back. The rear horn guides are in place with the top one cleaned up, The frame spacers that I'm going to use, I think that these are a bit on the narrow side at 24.9mm. I'm going to work out what I can use for these when I get the first horn block set up. On the real thing it should be 4'1 1/4" (just a tad over 28mm). I don't think that I can use this as A] when the overlays are in place the frames are thicker than the real ones and B] the axle boxes stick out more as well. I'm making a start on the motion bracket and the cylinder rear. I've now got the insides cut out so all I now have to do is the outsides and split the main ones and rejoin them. Then make the cut-outs to clear the CSBs, OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 The frame spacers you don't use can be useful: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Hello all, I've just been down to the local music shop to see about steel guitar strings. A nice range of sizes. The only down side is the Max. unwound size. 0.022" (0.56mm) lets hope that this is enough. Or it could be Ebay is my friend! I've also been thinking about paint for this loco. As the loco is pre 1914, as seen below, I think that the wheels and lower parts of the footplate will be in "red" . I'm looking for a good colour match in the car paints. At one time there used to be a Halfords paint match chart but I'm not having any luck finding it. HELP please, OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Hello all, I've just been down to the local music shop to see about steel guitar strings. A nice range of sizes. The only down side is the Max. unwound size. 0.022" (0.56mm) lets hope that this is enough. Or it could be Ebay is my friend! I've also been thinking about paint for this loco. As the loco is pre 1914, as seen below, Copy of Copy of DSC02965.JPG I think that the wheels and lower parts of the footplate will be in "red" . I'm looking for a good colour match in the car paints. At one time there used to be a Halfords paint match chart but I'm not having any luck finding it. HELP please, OzzyO. The splashers sides are also Indian red Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 That photo is well before 1914! It has the old socket lamp irons and the lamp is a pre-1903 type. These were replaced after 1903 but could have lasted several years longer. I've seen photos claimed to be 1908 with them still fitted. As to Indian Red, see this topic. There's a range of views on what the colour looked like, but it is essentially a haematite-based colour. Precision paints version is towards the purple-brown end, whereas the Railmatch paint is lighter and more red. It's possible the originals varied quite a bit so anywhere in this range will probably do. That said, repaints after 1906 would have had black frames, so there wouldn't be many surviving examples with red frames after about 1910-1912. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I've just been down to the local music shop to see about steel guitar strings. A nice range of sizes. The only down side is the Max. unwound size. 0.022" (0.56mm) lets hope that this is enough. Or it could be Ebay is my friend! Or a suitable model engineering firm, I got mine from Folkestone Engineering Supplies. http://www.feskent.co.uk/spring.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I've just been down to the local music shop to see about steel guitar strings. A nice range of sizes. The only down side is the Max. unwound size. 0.022" (0.56mm) lets hope that this is enough. The maximum unwound size available is 0.024", and although your local shop won't usually stock it, it should be able to get it for you. Or order online. My initial calculation suggested a 0.024" might be more suited than a 0.022", but it will depend on final weight of course, and there's no harm in having a bit of both sizes in stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 The maximum unwound size available is 0.024", and although your local shop won't usually stock it, it should be able to get it for you. Or order online. My initial calculation suggested a 0.024" might be more suited than a 0.022", but it will depend on final weight of course, and there's no harm in having a bit of both sizes in stock. Hello all Miss P. I did go back and reread the parts on CSBs, (it starts on page 53 mess. #1317) so I though I'll get the biggest Dia. steel guitar string that they had in stock then come down in size by about 0.002" per shot. As the largest that they had was 0.022" dia. I got that and some 0.017" dia. It's a starting point For me at the moment as I'm using 7mm handrail pillars about the largest dia. that I can use is 0.028" (0.8mm at a push). I may have to look at using some 10mm handrail pillars or make my own. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Hello all, close of play today, it will fit in the cylinder area, just about. The cylinder etch is for some very narrow gauge, that looks less than 00. and this loco is in 7mm. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 Hello all, Miss P. 0.024" guitar string on order, I should get it at the weekend. A more comprehensive up date on the frames. I'm doing it this way so that if I'm doing something wrong at this stage someone will let me know (I hope). After getting the rear horn guides in place and marking out the inside and out side of the wheels. It looks like I can get a plunger pick-up in place. The front horns were soldered in place. This showed up a small? problem. In that the horns are a bit on the long side as you can see. The guides will have to be made to the profile of the frames. This also makes the axle box too deep on the bottom edge, so it looks like I'll have to mill about 1.25mm off the bottom of them, this should not be a problem as all of the weight is on the top of the box, The same from the inside, Starting on the fixing points for the CSBs. The wire that I'm using is 0.7mm N/S to get all of the holes in line. The centre pivot point has been dropped by approx. 0.7mm To allow for the thickness of the wire (is that right?), The same with the axle boxes in place, I've noticed that the wire has dropped out of the front fixing point, Working on the CSB for the rear axle box. The front pivot point is fixed in place but the rear one is not. This has just been used to help keep the wire parallel to the frames, The same as above without the axle-boxes in place, above the rear post I'm looking at fitting an adjuster screw to make sure that the loco will ride level. I'm also going to have to make some thing that will keep the CSB in place, From the outside before cleaning up, The front of the frames showing the narrow cylinder etch in place. This was to check that I had enough room for the CSB and that I knew how much to remove from the horn casting, After doing all of the above I was able to deduce how much I could widen the spacers. It looks like I can widen them by about 3mm. But I'm going to check that latter. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 The wire that I'm using is 0.7mm N/S to get all of the holes in line. The centre pivot point has been dropped by approx. 0.7mm To allow for the thickness of the wire (is that right?) I do not understand. If the three holes are all in line, how can the centre one be dropped? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 I do not understand. If the three holes are all in line, how can the centre one be dropped? Front pivot point '0' middle pivot point - 0.6mm ( to account for the thickness of the wire) then the rear pivot point back to '0'. Or should all of them be on the same C/L? When I was saying to get all the holes in line, it was the holes in the pivot points. So that the holes all ran parallel to one another. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Front pivot point '0' middle pivot point - 0.6mm ( to account for the thickness of the wire) then the rear pivot point back to '0'. Or should all of them be on the same C/L? Yes, the frame fulcrum points should be on the same axis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Actually, it will still work fine if the frame fulcrum points are not on the same axis, but - put it this way, it becomes difficult to have a meaningful conversation if they are not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 Hello all, Miss P. I had assumed that the deflection was the Dia. of the wire and that the centre pivot should be moved down by that amount. So the first job on the frames today will be moving the two centre pivots (one per side) up so that they are in line with the outer two. It's not much of a job removing the old ones filling in the holes and re-drilling them. This has been one of the reasons that I'm trying to get as much of this work done before I assemble the two side frames together. After that it's going to be making the screw adjusters and keepers for the rear CSBs. I have an idea for that, if I'm thinking this right the screw adjuster wants to be at the same distance as the fixed pivot point is from the axle C/L, with the keeper close to it. Does it matter if it's in front of, or to the rear of the screw as long as it's close to it? TIA OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 After that it's going to be making the screw adjusters and keepers for the rear CSBs. I have an idea for that, if I'm thinking this right the screw adjuster wants to be at the same distance as the fixed pivot point is from the axle C/L, with the keeper close to it. Does it matter if it's in front of, or to the rear of the screw as long as it's close to it? Assuming you're thinking of something along the lines of a 'modified Bradwell', as discussed earlier in this thread, yes, the bottom of the screw will form the 'fulcrum point', so if you want the spring to be symmetrical, it should be the same distance as the fixed pivot is from the axle. In this case, some asymmetry doesn't matter, because it's only a single spring, and you're making it height-adjustable. It doesn't really matter whether the slot/keeper is on one side or the other of the screw adjuster, but having the slot to the rear of the adjuster is theoretically marginally preferable, because it reduces the possibility of the slot sides rubbing on the spring and becoming 'the fulcrum point'. Having it close is indeed sensible, and avoids the need to worry about any such marginal advantages or disadvantages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted September 20, 2013 Author Share Posted September 20, 2013 Hello all, work on the frames is still progressing a bit slower than I'd like, but when your trying something new what can one expect. The first job was to remove the pivots that were too low and fill in the holes, I also attached the support posts to the axle-boxes, these are the long WD handrail pillars from Markits, Trying the first one in place with some temp. N/S wire This was when the penny dropped. I had not allowed for the deflection, so it looks like all six pivots will have to come out and be moved, The guide and screw support for the rear CSB in the end I decided to go with the guide in front as I had a bit more frame to use ie. the brake support, Showing the gap, it may look big but it's only 0.028" so only 4 thou. bigger than the wire that I'll be using, You've still got to have a test even if some-thing's wrong, OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian@stenochs Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Hi All, Sorry but this springy wire set up looks to be more hastle than using conventional springs. I like to be able to set up what each wheel spring individually depending on the weight of the finished model. How do you do that when the wire supports are fixed at the start of the build? If you need to add weight for adhesion will that not alter the ride height? If so how do you adjust it? Packing or moving the wire supports again? If thicker wire is needed does that not then end up being virtually the same as a rigid chassis? Please don't think I am just being negative but sometimes new ideas are not as good as the old ones in practice. However I am still open to conversion. Happy modelling, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted September 20, 2013 Author Share Posted September 20, 2013 Hello Ian all, I'm new to the CSBs myself so I cant give you any answers. But one thing that I do like the sound of is the loco riding on the springs. On most of my locos up to now I've used the springs to push the wheels down in to a hollow (that is having the front and rear axles riding hard on the stops). In your post you mention about been able to set up each wheel spring individually. How do you do that please. Do you have a number of different strength springs? Or use one spring strength that's a bit stronger than the Slater's ones and have a screw adjuster to increase or decrease the load pressure? If you have any photos of how you do it would you please post them on here as I (and I think some others) would like to see it. At this moment in time I don't think that anyone can say that this way or that way is the best. Remember a few (20+) years back, beam compensation was all the rage (it worked and still does) It was better than a ridged set of frames but a lot of people still use ridged frames and get good running out of them. At the moment this is an experiment for me, if it works OK on this loco. I may try it on a bigger loco, but it has to work with no adjustment needed after the build is finished. Any loco that I build has to have the KISS principle, so that it does not have to come back to me every so many years for a refurbishment. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.