Wright writes.....

[Headstock]

Tourist stock brakes weren't even articulated.

[gr.king]

Given the South Western location, might those artic twins have come off the GC section rather than the GN section? In that case, although the diagrams differ little, they could be dia. 304 rather than dia. 194 /195.

[Hollar]

Interestingly violent crime with knifes and gangs was worse in the 60s and 70s than it is now, and drugs were pretty off the scale compared to now. The running street battles between the Mods and Rockers etc not to mention the late 60s early 70s mass experimentation with drugs were pretty full on.

With respect, as someone who grew up in east London in the 60s and now works within the justice system in the same area, I could not disagree more with what you say.  I have lurid stories of incidents I witnessed in my youth, and there is no comparison.

 

Tone

[Lecorbusier]

With respect, as someone who grew up in east London in the 60s and now works within the justice system in the same area, I could not disagree more with what you say.  I have lurid stories of incidents I witnessed in my youth, and there is no comparison.

 

Tone

No personal experience, only quoting from what I have read ... so more than happy to bow to greater knowledge and/or experience.

[Clem]

With Autumn now on our doorstep, over the last few weeks I've been looking to clear up one or two unfinished projects in order that I can firstly Spring(?!) clean the workshop and get any remaining Harvest-men spiders out and get a bit more organised before moving back on to scenery and buildings. One of my longest outstanding finishing jobs was a Connoisseur J69 which I built over ten years ago but at the time I didn't have a photo of the locomotive (68629) and so its condensing apparatus or lack of it was a bit of a mystery. I've recently come by a couple of photos which have finally given me that information and so I've been able to finish the loco and weather it. Another one of Colwick's finest, it moved to Colwick in November 1955 from Stratford. I don't know about anyone else, but I get a lot of satisfaction when I finally finish a  long standing part complete project.

[Headstock]

With Autumn now on our doorstep, over the last few weeks I've been looking to clear up one or two unfinished projects in order that I can firstly Spring(?!) clean the workshop and get any remaining Harvest-men spiders out and get a bit more organised before moving back on to scenery and buildings. One of my longest outstanding finishing jobs was a Connoisseur J69 which I built over ten years ago but at the time I didn't have a photo of the locomotive (68629) and so its condensing apparatus or lack of it was a bit of a mystery. I've recently come by a couple of photos which have finally given me that information and so I've been able to finish the loco and weather it. Another one of Colwick's finest, it moved to Colwick in November 1955 from Stratford. I don't know about anyone else, but I get a lot of satisfaction when I finally finish a  long standing part complete project.

 

Exellant work Clem, you really have an eye for this model railway malarkey. A Colwick Buckjumper was outsourced to Leicester shed as yard pilot for a while. The preserved N7 also served in the same capacity before being displaced by a J50 and then a J52.

[Porcy Mane]

 

May I intrude for a moment and ask the following please? I ask here as I know there are many who recognise LNER stock, with ease.

 

It is the stock I'm intrigued with; second and third coach. I reckon it's an LNER Artic pair. Any thoughts?

 

Someone may have been reading your posts. Just up on Flickr.

 

https://flic.kr/p/2bj7sQv

 

P

[Bucoops]

Found this at my parents earlier. I built this over 20 years ago - obviously still had something to learn with the painting technique, the white roof has gone a bit yellow, and I have no idea why it doesn't have any battery boxes. Weathering would help too. But it's something I built and painted from a kit - and it's not fallen apart

 

I'm certain I built two full brakes - I think the other one may still be in a display case at Mangapps museum.

 

 

[Atso]

I've been playing around with a 3D printed development/concept model on and off since January that seems to be progressing slowly into an actually layout model. Over the last few days, in between more important things, I've been slowly assembling some etched Fox bogies from the 2mm Association and the third and final one was completed this morning.

 

The starting point...

 

 

...and assembled using the Associations N Gauge coach wheels.

 

 

Yes Tony, they were soldered together!

 

Despite not having designed the sole bars/under frame yet, I couldn't resist placing the bodies on top of the bogies to get a feeling for how they'd look (and for a bit of inspiration).

 

 

I'm not convinced I've got the roof vent layout right over the toilets. I'll have to go back and carefully study the drawings again and make some amendments if necessary. Something a bit different to the usual rtr Dapol and Minitrix Gresley coaches.

[Mallard60022]

I've seen odd photos of Gresley stock used on trains in the west country where, in theory, they shouldn't have been (I don't mean inter-regionals). Can anyone suggest where I might find more information on this?

There is some info about ER coaches transferred away in the LNER Coaches books that are well known. Thompsons or Gresleys on the S & DJR and a couple of Thompsons on the Hemyock Branch are ones I know about. I have film evidence of a Gresley Open Third on the Seaton Branch, attached to a DMU Driving Car; that must be circa summer 64. No idea where that single coach came from. 

Tony and Co have far more info about the coach situations than I do so I'll leave it to them if I may.

As a final thought on the Artics, I reckon it will have been a Works Charter from (perhaps) the Leicester area, having come down the Midland to Bristol and then on west to Exeter and the North Devon/Cornwall area. I believe there was a Union Holiday Hotel down there somewhere. I could use rule 1 and have it come down to Bath G.P. and then over the S & D JR to Templecombe and then down through to Exeter Central and then St David's; stretching it a bit though that route.

Thanks everybody, I really appreciate your time and effort.

Phil

Edited September 22, 2018 by Mallard60022

[Headstock]

There is some info about ER coaches transferred away in the LNER Coaches books that are well known. Thompsons or Gresleys on the S & DJR and a couple of Thompsons on the Hemyock Branch are ones I know about. I have film evidence of a Gresley Open Third on the Seaton Branch, attached to a DMU Driving Car; that must be circa summer 64. No idea where that single coach came from. 

Tony and Co have far more info about the coach situations than I do so I'll leave it to them if I may.

As a final thought on the Artics, I reckon it will have been a Works Charter from (perhaps) the Leicester area, having come down the Midland to Bristol and then on west to Exeter and the North Devon/Cornwall area. I believe there was a Union Holiday Hotel down there somewhere. I could use rule 1 and have it come down to Bath G.P. and then over the S & D JR to Templecombe and then down through to Exeter Central and then St David's; stretching it a bit though that route.

Thanks everybody, I really appreciate your time and effort.

Phil

 

Evening Phil,

 

I'm not an expert on the Southern region or late period BR for that matter. However, given the location and the headcode, am I right in thinking the photo shows an Exeter Padstow working? If so, could this be a working down to the west county one weekend and return the following weekend, (assuming you are on the right track with regards to the Midlands as a place of origin) whereby, the set has been borrowed during the week for a 'local' working from Exeter to Padstow and return?. It would explain the presence of the GUV, something that I would associate more with local traffic rather than a works charter from the Midlands.

 

If the train is some kind of through working from the Leicester area to Padstow, wouldn't it be more likely that the train would have come from Leicester via Banbury, Oxford, Swindon, Bristol and Exeter?

Edited September 22, 2018 by Headstock

[Mallard60022]

Evening Phil,

 

I'm not an expert on the Southern region or late period BR for that matter. However, given the location and the headcode, am I right in thinking the photo shows an Exeter Padstow working? If so, could this be a working down to the west county one weekend and return the following weekend, (assuming you are on the right track with regards to the Midlands as a place of origin) whereby, the set has been borrowed during the week for a 'local' working from Exeter to Padstow and return?. It would explain the presence of the GUV, something that I would associate more with local traffic rather than a works charter from the Midlands.

 

If the train is some kind of through working from the Leicester area to Padstow, wouldn't it be more likely that the train would have come from Leicester via Banbury, Oxford, Swindon, Bristol and Exeter?

I have no idea other than the train is at Halwill but I don't recognise which way it is going as I'm not the expert on that area, but I know a few that are so I'll discuss it elsewhere. However the headcode is as you suggest. However, the 'travels' of stock (not just ER stuff) throughout the country is fascinating and something I had no idea happened back when I was spotty Oik as Mr. W would say.

I wonder if anyone noticed the Maunsells and or Bulleids that were used occasionally on local workings after arriving at Cleethorpes on  Saturdays during the summer school holidays 1960 - 1962. I have no idea if the Gresley & Thompson stock on the reverse working, Cleethorpes Sidmouth/Exmouth got 'borrowed' locally during the week. I've not seen any pics of that.

P

 

Edit : just to note how much fun it is to investigate stuff like this......and to speculate that the GUV was for bicycles, as the train may have been for cyclists/walkers as well as those just wanting to laze about on the sands and promenades. I'm off to look at my early BRSR timetables to see if I could spot a likely candidate for this working, however I suspect it would have been a one off for a sort of Wakes Week excursion.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Mallard60022

[Jamiel]

I hope it is OK to ask a question here as I have seen some wonderful coach kits in the thread.
 

How do people fill the gap at the ends of kits under the roof?
 

I have put this into ‘things to do before undercoating/painting’ as I always thought I would cut plastic to fit the inside of the gap, and then run a little filler or perhaps tiny strips of plastic/Evergreen strip on the outside to make it flush. For that reason I wanted to complete all soldering before adding plastic parts that may melt, or solvents that might give off nasty fumes when soldering.
 

Perhaps I should have asked this before detailing the ends if a brass or solder solution is best.
 

These photos show the gap between a Comet aluminium roof and an (old) Craftsman DMU kit, but I also have the same issue to solve on a Comet coach kit. This is the worst of the gaps, the others are smaller, but all the ends have this issue. The right side is held up to a light to make the gap as visible as possible.


 

I have put on piece of plasticard in place on the second photo, it is glued in with Evostick. I had considered running solder in there but I presume the aluminium would reject it.


 

I also plan to put lighting in the DMU in this case so a light proof as well as cosmetically pleasing result is desired. This is OO gauge/4mm in case the answer is different depending on scale.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Jamie

Edited September 23, 2018 by Jamiel

[Headstock]

I have no idea other than the train is at Halwill but I don't recognise which way it is going as I'm not the expert on that area, but I know a few that are so I'll discuss it elsewhere. However the headcode is as you suggest. However, the 'travels' of stock (not just ER stuff) throughout the country is fascinating and something I had no idea happened back when I was spotty Oik as Mr. W would say.

I wonder if anyone noticed the Maunsells and or Bulleids that were used occasionally on local workings after arriving at Cleethorpes on  Saturdays during the summer school holidays 1960 - 1962. I have no idea if the Gresley & Thompson stock on the reverse working, Cleethorpes Sidmouth/Exmouth got 'borrowed' locally during the week. I've not seen any pics of that.

P

 

Edit : just to note how much fun it is to investigate stuff like this......and to speculate that the GUV was for bicycles, as the train may have been for cyclists/walkers as well as those just wanting to laze about on the sands and promenades. I'm off to look at my early BRSR timetables to see if I could spot a likely candidate for this working, however I suspect it would have been a one off for a sort of Wakes Week excursion.

 

Evening Phil,

 

I would like to think that it was a bicycle van, that would be rather wonderful.

[Theakerr]

On any gap like the one at coach roof ends I use a two part fast setting epoxy (J B Weld over here) that can be smoothed in using a thin electronic q-tip soaked in varsol.  I 'paste' in using a thin spatula, smooth it, let it set, file/scrape it, and finish with body filler.   

[jamie92208]

 

On any gap like the one at coach roof ends I use a two part fast setting epoxy (J B Weld over here) that can be smoothed in using a thin electronic q-tip soaked in varsol.  I 'paste' in using a thin spatula, smooth it, let it set, file/scrape it, and finish with body filler.

Sounds like Araldite to me.

 

Jamie

[Clem]

Exellant work Clem, you really have an eye for this model railway malarkey. A Colwick Buckjumper was outsourced to Leicester shed as yard pilot for a while. The preserved N7 also served in the same capacity before being displaced by a J50 and then a J52.

 

Hi Andrew, It just came back to me about your quote regarding Colwick locos outsourced to Leicester. Did you mean Belgrave Road (GN) or Central (GC)? I assumed you meant the GN shed which was a sub-shed of Colwick, but I know Colwick did have a some turns down the GC.

[jrg1]

I hope it is OK to ask a question here as I have seen some wonderful coach kits in the thread.

 

How do people fill the gap at the ends of kits under the roof?

 

I have put this into ‘things to do before undercoating/painting’ as I always thought I would cut plastic to fit the inside of the gap, and then run a little filler or perhaps tiny strips of plastic/Evergreen strip on the outside to make it flush. For that reason I wanted to complete all soldering before adding plastic parts that may melt, or solvents that might give off nasty fumes when soldering.

 

Perhaps I should have asked this before detailing the ends if a brass or solder solution is best.

 

These photos show the gap between a Comet aluminium roof and an (old) Craftsman DMU kit, but I also have the same issue to solve on a Comet coach kit. This is the worst of the gaps, the others are smaller, but all the ends have this issue. The right side is held up to a light to make the gap as visible as possible.

 

 

I have put on piece of plasticard in place on the second photo, it is glued in with Evostick. I had considered running solder in there but I presume the aluminium would reject it.

 

 

I also plan to put lighting in the DMU in this case so a light proof as well as cosmetically pleasing result is desired. This is OO gauge/4mm in case the answer is different depending on scale.

 

Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

Jamie

Tin the brass with 180 solder, tin the aluminium with appropriate solder.  Flux with Red Flux, fill with 70 WM solder.

[Headstock]

Hi Andrew, It just came back to me about your quote regarding Colwick locos outsourced to Leicester. Did you mean Belgrave Road (GN) or Central (GC)? I assumed you meant the GN shed which was a sub-shed of Colwick, but I know Colwick did have a some turns down the GC.

 

Evening Clem,

 

Colwick was the principal shed in the area, 38A, with Annesley 38B, Leicester 38C, Stavely 38D and Woodford 38E, as far as I recall Leicester GN was a subshed of Leicester GC.

 

Colwick provided loads of locomotives, principally for ordinary passenger trains, pick up goods and various works and departmental operations. Leicester GC was principally a passenger depot, Leicester being the locomotive change over point for North and Southbound expresses. However, being alongside the goodsyard it was also home to the yard shunter and two J5s for local pick up goods turns. Colwick tends to get forgotten about when discussing operations on the GC, in reality it handled a substantial part of the traffic with It's locomotives reaching as far north as Sheffield and as far south as Woodford. If Leicester required shunters or freight locomotives they would come from Colwick.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Headstock

[Clem]

Evening Clem,

 

Colwick was the principal shed in the area, 38A, with Annesley 38B, Leicester 38C, Stavely 38D and Woodford 38E, as far as I recall Leicester GN was a subshed of Leicester GC.

 

Colwick provided loads of locomotives, principally for ordinary passenger trains, pick up goods and various works and departmental operations. Leicester GC was principally a passenger depot, Leicester being the locomotive change over point for North and Southbound expresses. However, being alongside the goodsyard it was also home to the yard shunter and two J5s for local pick up goods turns. Colwick tends to get forgotten about when discussing operations on the GC, in reality it handled a substantial part of the traffic with It's locomotives reaching as far north as Sheffield and as far south as Woodford. If Leicester required shunters or freight locomotives they would come from Colwick.

 

Hi Andrew. It was my understanding that there was a change in the mid-1950s when Leicester GN became a sub shed of Leicester GC instead Colwick, although by this time I think the shed had been at least partially knocked down. Certainly it is listed as sub-shed of Colwick (along with Derby Friargate Slack Lane) in the early 1950s. At this time Leicester GC had one J5 shedded there 65495 and a J52 68839? so it did have its own goods allocation too. I know Colwick's Footballers worked almost exclusively on the GC and its J6s and later the L1s worked the locals to Woodford. I was under the impression that later in the 1950s Belgrave Road became a sub shed of Leicester in that engine men based at the GC shed used it as a signing on point. After 1953 when the Grantham services ceased there was a lot less activity at Belgrave Road although the Colwick freights continued until 1964. It would be interesting to have any or all of this conjecture confirmed though. I certainly hadn't known or heard about any of Colwick's shunting tanks being outsourced at the GC shed/yard although I know that Derby Friargate always had one (which returned to Colwick every week for a boiler washout) and I assume Belgrave Road had one up to the mid 50s. It's great delving into the workings of those days, isn't it?!

[Pebbles]

I believe that he has mentioned his forthcoming trip several times over the past few months on this thread.

 

Jamie

Anything to do with the next series of "Doctor Blake Mysteries" as a Tony Wright is the Executive Producer.

[Headstock]

Hi Andrew. It was my understanding that there was a change in the mid-1950s when Leicester GN became a sub shed of Leicester GC instead Colwick, although by this time I think the shed had been at least partially knocked down. Certainly it is listed as sub-shed of Colwick (along with Derby Friargate Slack Lane) in the early 1950s. At this time Leicester GC had one J5 shedded there 65495 and a J52 68839? so it did have its own goods allocation too. I know Colwick's Footballers worked almost exclusively on the GC and its J6s and later the L1s worked the locals to Woodford. I was under the impression that later in the 1950s Belgrave Road became a sub shed of Leicester in that engine men based at the GC shed used it as a signing on point. After 1953 when the Grantham services ceased there was a lot less activity at Belgrave Road although the Colwick freights continued until 1964. It would be interesting to have any or all of this conjecture confirmed though. I certainly hadn't known or heard about any of Colwick's shunting tanks being outsourced at the GC shed/yard although I know that Derby Friargate always had one (which returned to Colwick every week for a boiler washout) and I assume Belgrave Road had one up to the mid 50s. It's great delving into the workings of those days, isn't it?!

 

Morning Clem,

 

yes, Leicester GN was transferred as a subshed to Leicester GC, Derby Friagate remained a subshed of Colwick. Yes Leicester GC had its own freight allocation, however, they where almost exclusively transfered from Colwick. Leicester finally settled on a J52 as yard pilot, prior to that they tried a J69, a J50 and an N7 over a relatively short time period.

 

Colwicks B17s came mostly from Woodford, where they had been working cross country expresses alongside that sheds allocation of V2s and local services as far as Nottingham. During their short stay at Colwick they worked ordinary passenger trains alongside the sheds K2s, mostly north of Leicester and as far as Sheffield. Both types where photographed on pick up goods at Leicester Yard.

 

I don't have any photographs or spotter book references with regard to J6s south of Leicester on ordinary passenger trains, I have plenty of material of them going left at Weekday Cross Junction or working into Leicester from the north and working back, so I would be interested in any information you have regarding this. I have tons of photo and paper references that has Woodford J11s, Colwick J11s, A5s and later L1s, Annesley K3s and J11/3s, Leicester B1s, GWR Halls and York B16s and A2/3s on these services. In short, anything but a J6 south of Leicester. I would love to pin down a J6, a K2 or a C1 south of Leicester on an ordinary passenger train but so far with no results, if they where working such services they must have been rare.

 

One of our friendly GC drivers Frank Stratford, sadly now deceased, recalled working freights into Belgrave road, motive power was mostly Colwick J6s and occasionally J39s if they where lucky, I can confirm that it was used as a signing on point. With regard to boiler washouts, Leicesters B1's and A3s where regular visitors to Colwick for such treatment.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Headstock

[Clive Mortimore]

Jesse some questions here

1 how did he get past border control?

2 did he operate the layout as it is dcc?

 

I am sure that they will enjoy Oz

 

Baz

HI Baz

 

Pure speculation to question one.  Didn't Tony rant on about a speed camera catching him.....criminal, isn't that an entry qualification for Australia?

[Fat Controller]

I have no idea other than the train is at Halwill but I don't recognise which way it is going as I'm not the expert on that area, but I know a few that are so I'll discuss it elsewhere. However the headcode is as you suggest. However, the 'travels' of stock (not just ER stuff) throughout the country is fascinating and something I had no idea happened back when I was spotty Oik as Mr. W would say.

I wonder if anyone noticed the Maunsells and or Bulleids that were used occasionally on local workings after arriving at Cleethorpes on  Saturdays during the summer school holidays 1960 - 1962. I have no idea if the Gresley & Thompson stock on the reverse working, Cleethorpes Sidmouth/Exmouth got 'borrowed' locally during the week. I've not seen any pics of that.

P

 

Edit : just to note how much fun it is to investigate stuff like this......and to speculate that the GUV was for bicycles, as the train may have been for cyclists/walkers as well as those just wanting to laze about on the sands and promenades. I'm off to look at my early BRSR timetables to see if I could spot a likely candidate for this working, however I suspect it would have been a one off for a sort of Wakes Week excursion.

The ER (possibly NER) set of Gresleys that used to work a Newcastle to Swansea working was once 'borrowed' to work the 'South Wales Pullman' when the intended stock was blocked in Maliphant Sidings; there's a photo in 'The Red Dragon and other old friends'.

Stock diagramming for seaside trains was profligate in its use of stock. Into the 1960s, there was a dated working from Swansea to the Bournemouth area, where a rake of SR stock would be sent ECS to Swansea at the beginning of the summer timetable. It would then work to the South Coast on Saturday morning, departing for Swansea at tea-time that afternoon, then being at Maliphant until the following week. One round trip per week, intended to coincide with checking out and checking in at boarding houses and hotels..

The GUV was intended to carry the kitchen sink, which every self-respecting British household took with them.

[Clem]

Morning Clem,

 

yes, Leicester GN was transferred as a subshed to Leicester GC, Derby Friagate remained a subshed of Colwick. Yes Leicester GC had its own freight allocation, however, they where almost exclusively transfered from Colwick. Leicester finally settled on a J52 as yard pilot, prior to that they tried a J69, a J50 and an N7 over a relatively short time period.

 

Colwicks B17s came mostly from Woodford, where they had been working cross country expresses alongside that sheds allocation of V2s and local services as far as Nottingham. During their short stay at Colwick they worked ordinary passenger trains alongside the sheds K2s, mostly north of Leicester and as far as Sheffield. Both types where photographed on pick up goods at Leicester Yard.

 

I don't have any photographs or spotter book references with regard to J6s south of Leicester on ordinary passenger trains, I have plenty of material of them going left at Weekday Cross Junction or working into Leicester from the north and working back, so I would be interested in any information you have regarding this. I have tons of photo and paper references that has Woodford J11s, Colwick J11s, A5s and later L1s, Annesley K3s and J11/3s, Leicester B1s, GWR Halls and York B16s and A2/3s on these services. In short, anything but a J6 south of Leicester. I would love to pin down a J6, a K2 or a C1 south of Leicester on an ordinary passenger train but so far with no results, if they where working such services they must have been rare.

 

One of our friendly GC drivers Frank Stratford, sadly now deceased, recalled working freights into Belgrave road, motive power was mostly Colwick J6s and occasionally J39s if they where lucky, I can confirm that it was used as a signing on point. With regard to boiler washouts, Leicesters B1's and A3s where regular visitors to Colwick for such treatment.

 

Hi Andrew, Thank you for your Leicester railway expertise. I've got the GC book 'GC from the Footplate' Rowbotham/Frank Stratford. He must have been great to talk to.  You're way ahead of me on knowledge and information regarding the GC and what you've said here I find very interesting. I admit that I just assumed the J6s had been used prior to the L1s on the Woodford Locals but I've no evidence for it. Also, I had always thought that the footballers worked South as well as North for Nottingham Victoria but I know Leicester GC and Neasden were responsible for  most of the express workings and thought the B17s were used just on semi-fasts. I know that the footballers weren't common on the GN lines to Derby and Pinxton although I do have a photo of 61662 with a brake van near Derby so they did appear on occasion.  

I moved close to the GC line on Wilford Lane just south of the Trent crossing in January 1960 and I could see a stretch of about half-a-mile from the house. So even when I wasn't by the railway, I could see from the bedroom windows what was running. Although the A3s had gone in September '57 there was still plenty to be seen at that time including V2s, J11s and L1s. I particularly liked the B16s in all their guises and, from memory, at that time there was still 2 or 3 each day on Woodford freights. One loco which stuck in my mind was 92250 which came up from the South one evening in 1960 on a short freight. But in those years of the early 60's you could almost see anything on the GC and it wouldn't be a surprise. By the end of '62 the line had become heavily under the influence of the LMR, motive power wise although visits of V2s, B1s and B16s (rebuilt) continued infrequently.  Sad to see it decline and go.