Wright writes.....

[Headstock]

Clem,

Frank Stratford was phenomenal, we would never have worked out the operation of the goodsyard without him. He got to see the layout in action on a number of occasions and was thrilled by it. The first time he came to see it in action, quite by chance he bumped into a number of other ex GC men that he hadn't clapped eyes on in over forty years, it was quite a reunion.

The B17 did work south from Nottingham as Colwick engines. They just disappeared, or became very rare, on those workings south of Leicester, conversely, they became more common in the Sheffield area. Leicester was some sort of demarcation point with quite distinctive locomotive workings to the north compared to the south. When the D11s returned to Sheffield and the London extension in 57, they worked as far south as Leicester but no further. I would look out for the term 'semi fast', this was an aberration of disconnected disservices introduced by the Midland after the axing of the ordinary passenger trains and the expresses. The purpose of the semi fasts was to discourage passengers from using the line.

After the Midland took over in 58, the A3s were recalled to the GN and the Master Cutler went with them. The other GC expresses where canceled by the end of the year. Only the interregional expresses remained, as they came under the control of the NER,SR and WR and where more difficult for the Midland to get rid off. They did eventually and the traffic was transferred to the motorways. After the closure of the London extension, rail travel between the NE and the SW remains that of a third world country.

Your memory dosn't fail you with regard to the B16s, there were three fast freights off of Dringhouses bound for Woodford, Bristol and Cardiff. The York B16s dominated the workings, though Thompson Pacifics could also turn up on the services and late on one of the trains could have a Sheffield loco at its head. There was no balanced working early in the morning for at least one of the freights, so the locomotive would work back north on an ordinary passenger train from Woodford to Leicester or Nottingham. By your time of observing, the Ords had long gone, so a different arrangement would apply. Conversely, a fast freight locomotive was required for a Woodford York working in the late afternoon. As a result, one of Leicesters V2's or Annesleys K3's, would be required to work a southbound runner off of Annesley in order to position it for the return working with the fully fitted freight.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Headstock

[Clem]

Hi Andrew. Fascinating read. When are you exhibiting again? 

[Headstock]

Hi Andrew. Fascinating read. When are you exhibiting again? 

 

Afternoon Clem,

 

thanks for the interest. The next exhibition is at the Springfields Event Centre in Spalding, that's on the 3rd and 4th of November. I believe Mr Wright will also be present with his loco clinic.

[Clem]

Afternoon Clem,

 

thanks for the interest. The next exhibition is at the Springfields Event Centre in Spalding, that's on the 3rd and 4th of November. I believe Mr Wright will also be present with his loco clinic.

 

Cheers Andrew. I'll try to get along to that. 

[D.Platt]

Afternoon All

 

Just getting back into the modelling after a summer of bowling and other distractions!

 

I’am getting to the final bits to complete my DJH B16/3 ,I was looking for photos of the rear of the tender , the kit has no detail at all on it, I found a great picture on the internet and it’s just got me thinking ( I know dangerous) how the heck did the fireman climb up the back of the tenders that didn’t have adequate steps / handrails ?

[Headstock]

Afternoon All

 

Just getting back into the modelling after a summer of bowling and other distractions!

 

I’am getting to the final bits to complete my DJH B16/3 ,I was looking for photos of the rear of the tender , the kit has no detail at all on it, I found a great picture on the internet and it’s just got me thinking ( I know dangerous) how the heck did the fireman climb up the back of the tenders that didn’t have adequate steps / handrails ?

 

 

That's a good question. There's a shortish horizontal handrail that the fireman could stand on and reach the filler cap, as It is mounted towards the back edge of the tender rather than further forwards as in many similar types. Otherwise he would have shinny over the top without getting caught on the lamp bracket.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Headstock

[grahame]

A little more, albeit slow, progress with my N/2mm class Z 0-8-0T. There's still plenty to do like adding coal to the bunker, glazing the windows, installing the pipes/cocks below the bunker and so on . . . . 

 

 

G.

[Ian Smeeton]

That looks exceptional, Grahame. 'Craftsmanship/clever' is not enough to do it justice.

 

In other news, did 'Sir' get to Oz, and don't they have internet there, or has Jesse sabotaged him?

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Bucoops]

In other news, did 'Sir' get to Oz, and don't they have internet there, or has Jesse sabotaged him?

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

I'm just assuming that to get back to his timeline he has to get through WW2, so he's legged it "for the duration"

[St Enodoc]

That looks exceptional, Grahame. 'Craftsmanship/clever' is not enough to do it justice.

 

In other news, did 'Sir' get to Oz, and don't they have internet there, or has Jesse sabotaged him?

 

Regards

 

Ian

1. Yes.

2. Sort of.

3. Possibly.

[Craigw]

I went to the local exhibition at Liverpool today (NSW - Australia)  Even though it is not really my thing, I go along to catch up with people rather than actually buy things or look at layouts.

 

Anyway, I was talking to some mates when i saw a face I recognised in the crowd. I figured I might as well introduce myself and say hello and a few other friends joined in. 

 

I am wearing the red T-shirt. The two young ones are Zane and Evan. I do not think I need to say who the other is do I?

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Chamby]

Clem,

Frank Stratford was phenomenal, we would never have worked out the operation of the goodsyard without him. He got to see the layout in action on a number of occasions and was thrilled by it. The first time he came to see it in action, quite by chance he bumped into a number of other ex GC men that he hadn't clapped eyes on in over forty years, it was quite a reunion.

The B17 did work south from Nottingham as Colwick engines. They just disappeared, or became very rare, on those workings south of Leicester, conversely, they became more common in the Sheffield area. Leicester was some sort of demarcation point with quite distinctive locomotive workings to the north compared to the south. When the D11s returned to Sheffield and the London extension in 57, they worked as far south as Leicester but no further. I would look out for the term 'semi fast', this was an aberration of disconnected disservices introduced by the Midland after the axing of the ordinary passenger trains and the expresses. The purpose of the semi fasts was to discourage passengers from using the line.

After the Midland took over in 58, the A3s were recalled to the GN and the Master Cutler went with them. The other GC expresses where canceled by the end of the year. Only the interregional expresses remained, as they came under the control of the NER,SR and WR and where more difficult for the Midland to get rid off. They did eventually and the traffic was transferred to the motorways. After the closure of the London extension, rail travel between the NE and the SW remains that of a third world country.

Your memory dosn't fail you with regard to the B16s, there were three fast freights off of Dringhouses bound for Woodford, Bristol and Cardiff. The York B16s dominated the workings, though Thompson Pacifics could also turn up on the services and late on one of the trains could have a Sheffield loco at its head. There was no balanced working early in the morning for at least one of the freights, so the locomotive would work back north on an ordinary passenger train from Woodford to Leicester or Nottingham. By your time of observing, the Ords had long gone, so a different arrangement would apply. Conversely, a fast freight locomotive was required for a Woodford York working in the late afternoon. As a result, one of Leicesters V2's or Annesleys K3's, would be required to work a southbound runner off of Annesley in order to position it for the return working with the fully fitted freight.

Colin Walker’s evocative book ‘Main Line Lament’ is a good read for those interested in this subject, with an emphasis on footplate memories... He recalls a time when the Pacifics had moved back east in late ‘57 and Leicester shed was coping with a motley collection of barely serviceable engines, until the crews discovered how good 9F’s were on passenger services and ‘borrowing’ these locomotives from Woodford and Annesley became common for a while. 92164 apparently recorded 86mph between Leicester and Nottingham on a down ‘Master Cutler’, the powers that be found it necessary to impose a 60mph limit on this class to curb the Leicester driver’s enthusiasm...

 

The reason for a clear distinction between locomotives used North and South of Leicester was because it was halfway between Manchester and London, so was set up to be the locomotive changeover point. However at times of heavy demand, they used whatever was available, and the line was renowned for unusual workings, sending locomotives far from their Home Depot, particularly on the inter-regional cross-country workings. Variety of motive power was one of the key features of the London Extension, this is both an attraction and a challenge for us railway modellers.

[APOLLO]

Quick question I see Tony is in OZ, I take it he won't be attending the Wigan Exhibition this weekend ? 

 

Brit15

[Headstock]

Colin Walker’s evocative book ‘Main Line Lament’ is a good read for those interested in this subject, with an emphasis on footplate memories... He recalls a time when the Pacifics had moved back east in late ‘57 and Leicester shed was coping with a motley collection of barely serviceable engines, until the crews discovered how good 9F’s were on passenger services and ‘borrowing’ these locomotives from Woodford and Annesley became common for a while. 92164 apparently recorded 86mph between Leicester and Nottingham on a down ‘Master Cutler’, the powers that be found it necessary to impose a 60mph limit on this class to curb the Leicester driver’s enthusiasm...

 

The reason for a clear distinction between locomotives used North and South of Leicester was because it was halfway between Manchester and London, so was set up to be the locomotive changeover point. However at times of heavy demand, they used whatever was available, and the line was renowned for unusual workings, sending locomotives far from their Home Depot, particularly on the inter-regional cross-country workings. Variety of motive power was one of the key features of the London Extension, this is both an attraction and a challenge for us railway modellers.

 

Afternoon Phil,

 

'Main Line Lament' is a terrific book, as is 'Great Central twilight' and 'Great Central twilight finally' by the same Author/Photographer. All are a fantastic record, unfortunately of times tinged with sadness, for that reason I went for an earlier modeling period when traffic levels were still booming before the brakes where applied.

 

The 9F's were known to run fast, I don't think that a 60 mph limit was ever enforced. Tales of them descending Asby Magna bank in the high sixties, with fifty or more unfitted mineral wagons and the guard hanging on for dear life, abounded up until the lines closure. However, the V2's were the Leicester men's favorites, more so than the A3's. Leicester got three in 1953, including the incomparable 60863, and a larger allocation after the recall of the A3's.

 

There are many reasons beyond Leicester being the mid point on the route to Manchester, to why there was some differences in motive power to the north and south of the city. For example, the WD'S were concentrated at Woodford shed because the were not very good on the runners. Instead they worked the slower and less demanding traffic to London. It is unknown why Colwick K2's and J6's only worked ordinary passenger trains to the north and into Leicester. However, the same sheds J11's and A5's worked through to Rugby and Woodford.

 

Prior to the arrival of the A3's, Woodford and Sheffield dominated the Cross country and London expresses, with Darnall shed working right through to Marylebone and return on the likes of the 'Master Cutler'. Conversely, Darnall's Atlantics worked through on the Sheffield-Swindon but only worked as far as Leicester on the 'Ords'. Passenger carriage workings are well known, however, the corresponding locomotive diagrams and its associated paperwork is as rare as hens teeth. As a result, a lot of the reasons why have been lost in the mists of time. For example, why was the South Yorkshireman double headed north of Leicester?

 

I was sent this image this morning from LSGC's recent exhibition. It shows a bit of motive power verirty, John Marsh's B1 E1299 is on the Lambourne-York race special, while Andrew Hill's O6 (it must be a mexborough locomotive) is stood at the signal at the top of north loop on his Leicester-Annesley empty loco coal'. I painted the signals and the horse boxes and Ron Hodge built the 8F.

 

photo cortesy of Derek Shore.

[APOLLO]

This is a wonderful website for the GC fan

 

http://www.annesleyfireman.com/

 

Brit15

[asmay2002]

It is unknown why Colwick K2's and J6's only worked ordinary passenger trains to the north and into Leicester. However, the same sheds J11's and A5's worked through to Rugby and Woodford.

Possibly these classes were working diagrams unchanged since pre-grouping days.

[Headstock]

Possibly these classes were working diagrams unchanged since pre-grouping days.

 

Good evening Andy,

 

I think that there is some truth in that, though I haven't studied the GN lines around Nottingham in enough detail to say for sure. However, there dose seem to be a link between services on the former GN lines and were they intergrate with the services on the former GC lines and the type of motive power in use.

[DougN]

Well I can confirm that Tony is alive and well. No drop bears, sharks, spiders, snakes, Crocs, or Sheila's have managed to find him yet! He is being well cared for and will be returned to the UK in time. 

 

I am sure that he has enjoyed his trip and the friendly meetings of last weekend will be a fond memory of his trip. 

 

Jesse may be a little more relaxed once Tony and Mo leave him and he can go back to "normal speak" with out flinching every time he goes to say something! 

(Don't worry Jesse we understand what you are saying! and well done again with your demonstration) 

 

Oh and it was lovely to meet you, Tony, and have a chat! 

Edited October 3, 2018 by DougN

[robertcwp]

For example, why was the South Yorkshireman double headed north of Leicester?

 

 

Like this: 

61151_E1299_down_SouthYorkshireman_nrBelgrave-Birstall_1949 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Enterprisingwestern]

 For example, why was the South Yorkshireman double headed north of Leicester?

 

Back in the day there were a lot of unbalanced workings, maybe it was to get a Darnall B1 back home?

 

Mike.

[Headstock]

Back in the day there were a lot of unbalanced workings, maybe it was to get a Darnall B1 back home?

 

Mike.

 

On the face of it that would seem most likely. Or perhaps it was a belt and braces job incase a locomotive was lost in a sinkhole, due to mining subsidence in the Nottingham coal field.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Headstock

[Headstock]

Like this: 

61151_E1299_down_SouthYorkshireman_nrBelgrave-Birstall_1949 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

I recall that a B1 piloting an A3 on the South Yorkshireman, struck a shunting loco or its train in Nottingham Victoria, I think it was about 1952. The shunter was doing something it shouldn't, the express was going a little too fast and it transpired that the brakes had failed on the B1.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Headstock

[Chamby]

Sir has definitely left the building... has anyone received a ransome note yet?

[Jesse Sim]

Well I can confirm that Tony is alive and well. No drop bears, sharks, spiders, snakes, Crocs, or Sheila's have managed to find him yet! He is being well cared for and will be returned to the UK in time. 

 

I am sure that he has enjoyed his trip and the friendly meetings of last weekend will be a fond memory of his trip. 

 

Jesse may be a little more relaxed once Tony and Mo leave him and he can go back to "normal speak" with out flinching every time he goes to say something! 

(Don't worry Jesse we understand what you are saying! and well done again with your demonstration) 

 

Oh and it was lovely to meet you and have a chat!

 

Can confirm the man the myth and the legend shall be returning to the Uk anyday now, it was lovely to finally meet you Doug!

 

Funny enough I am speaking proper English, however don’t know how it will last!

[Craigw]

Can confirm the man the myth and the legend shall be returning to the Uk anyday now, it was lovely to finally meet you Doug!

 

Funny enough I am speaking proper English, however don’t know how it will last!

 

Jesse, I said hello briefly at Liverpool and was laughing to myself for the rest of the day when you made the mistake of saying "me and Dad are going over there..." 

 

Regards,

 

Craig W