flexible_coupling Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I've had a slow and convoluted process in bringing together my ambitions for a 7mm layout, which led to timber being cut for http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75020-herrington-road, a 'Reely Grate' copy with a single turnout in a small space. While that arrangement offers surprising potential, I've ultimately struggled with a specific direction and ambition for the railway. This is not a new feeling! I've classically struggled for focus and long-term direction with layout projects, only one small and simple N-scale layout really reached a state that I could call 'complete'. Herrington Road was built to prod me forward - nothing like a big lump of wood sitting there taunting me to bring around a bit of action. Now - I lay the blame of my sudden artistic direction squarely on the shoulders of David Siddall, for his contribution in Chris' 'Cwm Bach' thread of a link to a photo gallery, which led to the photograph below of Mountain Ash shed. http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/5783187039/in/set-72157626724121567/ I stared at the photograph for about 20 minutes, absorbing it all. I concede with full innocence that I don't have historical knowledge of the era - which might explain why I spent about half an hour trying to figure out if the photo date of 28th June 1972 was a typo. Finding photos going through to 1980 of steam at Mountain Ash was a figurative mind-blowing discovery to me. I truly had no idea as to the longevity of steam in scenarios like the NCB lines. I was born in 1985, my dad left the UK in 1980 to emigrate out to Australia. A photo of a 'loaner' BR Blue Class 08 (in 1980, I think) on shed really sealed the deal for me. I put in about five revisions of a track plan, based on the good woodwork of Herrington Road, but with an extension added on. I physically have space for another 2'3" to add onto the layout. This eventually led to the below plan, which I'm very satisfied with. Five turnouts, most curves 4'6" radius. The shed is strongly inspired on the Mountain Ash design, but will probably be about 3-4 inches too short over the prototype. It will allow four engines instead of six. I've plotted out the basic geometry for the distinctive trusses for the roof, and plan to make a template for building eight trusses in brass and make up the full roof frame authentically. For those with more prototype knowledge - I'm looking to interpret the history of the roof (as it's been subject to a bit of butchery!) to keep it closer to the ~1972 look without panels missing. I'm very excited about making the inside of the shed look just the same as the original, warts and all. I'm adding the 'lean-to' awning that appears to the side of the shed opening, but have moved it away a little to form an isolated 'rotten row', in much the same way as the prototype ended up having decrepit locomotives and wagons stored away. On top of that, I've taken the liberty of adding a wagon repair 'shop for some extra operational potential and another little scene to go nuts on decorating. I will probably leave the layout-edge wall removed on the repair shop to allow a direct view inside. This will have a high trussed roof as well (exact design to be determined) and be fully lit and detailed inside. Along with that, there's a typical coal stage, water/sand and probably diesel fuelling points, and 'behind' the shed, a creek (already incorporated in the woodwork), a gentle return curve and a cutting and steel girder road bridge which will hover above the air-space over the traverser to crib some extra scenic space. This was the original plan for the previous layout too. I'm very excited to get stuck in here. I'll be buying the extra framework timber I need (I have offcuts of the ply top from the original work on the layout which are perfect for the task) in the next week, and I'm going to steal David's idea with foam underlay and get that applied all-over. I have a few holes in the top of the existing portion of the layout to patch up with ply offcuts, and a new bridge to cut/position over the creek. Most importantly, an order for timber sleepering will also be sent off shortly, and I can start prepping those and laying track......... Now - I need some contributions from the esteemed folk here. Firstly - a Welsh (or Welsh-ish!) name to fit the region. While the influence of Mountain Ash is very direct in some areas, I'm not going to call it a model OF the area. Just a tribute. Secondly - some feedback on the layout design would be appreciated. The arrangement of the feed track for the traverser is neatly placed to get the most out of the range of movement. Thirdly - I know of one "loan move"... does anyone have any records/photos of BR loaning out any other locos to the colliery lines in the late 70's? Is it something that happened regularly? I'm leaning the general time-frame of this layout to be 1972 to 1980, for no other reason than I've got a photo trail to work with that I like! This is going to be a lot of fun.......... not exactly a setting for the pretty paint-schemes and famous trains, but definitely something different. It's great to have some direction at last. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Lots of potential there. With good attention to detail this could be a truly splendid layout. If you equip everything with smoke units you can even blanket everything with the sulphurous cloud drifting down the valley from the Phurnacite plant at Abercwmboi . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 I certainly intend to capture the black mud everywhere. Scorched rusty smokeboxes on Austerities are mandatory. I may well look into piping "permanent" smoke units into the shed for a bit of ambience... just need to watch the smoke alarm in my apartment here, it's permanently wired into the mains and is about nine feet up in the air - and I don't have a ladder! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthesnail96 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 While there's a plethora of 0 gauge shed/ mpd layouts, I don't think I've ever seen an industrial one (although I'm sure there are some, and someone will shortly be along to tell me what they are ). For that reason alone this is an interesting concept- with it incorporating a close representation of Mountain Ash's shed, with all the grot and grime of steam's final years there, I shall definitely be paying close attention Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 South Wales has so much to offer the railway modeller, which is why my own layout project, Cwm Bach, is based in the region http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80426-cwm-bach-a-south-wales-branch-line/page-3&do=findComment&comment=1292838 I shall be following this forum. I have always liked the layout of the level crossing at Mountain Ash by the Cresselly Arms, but wondered why only the GWR line and not the colliery line was protected by gates. A classic photo of this location is at http://www.flickr.com/photos/cerij4242/6350523047/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Siddall Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 South Wales has so much to offer the railway modeller... I absolutely agree and thoroughly look forward to what's currently under development :-) It's just unfortunate that after a lifetime of modelling things GWR and WR (and half a lifetime of living in South East Wales) I've suddenly developed and new and temporarily all-consuming interest in the railways of the North East – particularity particularly those with a connection to coal (I've just discovered there's a genealogical connection too). D Edited because 'particularity' isn't a word... apart from one I just appear to have made up ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2014 Now - I need some contributions from the esteemed folk here. Firstly - a Welsh (or Welsh-ish!) name to fit the region. While the influence of Mountain Ash is very direct in some areas, I'm not going to call it a model OF the area. Just a tribute. The Welsh name for the town of Mountain Ash is Aberpennar, which indicates that it is where the river Pennar joins up with the river Cynon. There are other places nearby called Cefnpennar and Cwmpennar, so you might like to choose a name for the district of your model that incorporates the word Pennar. Alternatively, the name of the colliery at Mountain Ash was Middle Duffryn (yes, I'm afraid to say that is how the Welsh word Dyffryn was spelt in the nineteenth century by the English coal-owners), so you might like to consider calling your model Duffryn. Just a couple of thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Thanks Budgie - that slightly anglicized alteration Duffryn sounds interesting.... Small updates - after peeling myself up off the floor after figuring out the cost of making the trussed roofing of the engine shed in brass, I've figured out a vastly cheaper parts list for making it all in plastic. I will test one truss from evergreen styrene section with plastic weld cement, if it works and is sufficiently strong, I'll plow ahead and go mad with it. I plan to do up an etch with some corner brace plates with push out rivet detail to make it all look pretty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 OK - here's a question to mull over - love to hear some feedback from anyone with experience on the subject. How sensible/practical is it to consider replicating 'poor quality' bumpy industrial permanent way in 7mm? I'm talking about vertical up-and-down bumps, and probably carefully 'designed' in their placement to avoid throwing things off the track. To replicate the dodgy track in the link below would be fantastic... http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/5773546162/in/set-72157626724121567 Scale (extremely slow) speeds on the small layout I'm working on are a given. Sprung wagons and sprung or compensated locomotives are also a given. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 From an engineering point of view, it should be possible. Vertical lumps and bumps should be OK provided any six wheeled locos and stock have sufficient vertical movement on the centre axle to avoid seesawing on humps or lifting clear on dips. Lateral wiggles should also be OK as they are really just the limiting case of curves. I would, however, try to avoid twist (one running rail lower than t'other) in the track anywhere and I would also try to avoid any lumps, bumps or wiggles through points and crossings, particularly at the frog. From an aesthetic point of view, it could work very well, but you need to be careful that it doesn't just look like sloppy tracklaying . Bear in mind that discrepancies of an inch or two are easily visible on the prototype but translate to under a mm in the model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Yeah.... the immediate challenge is how to emulate the effect of a HEAVILY loaded and under-sprung wagon ducking and weaving on track that may well indeed only have an inch or two's variation. I've got a length of rescued Peco flex, I might have a bit of a play when I get the MMP 16t wagon I'm building finished, as it has sprung suspension and might be a good gauge of things. I've heard the springing won't do a lot with the wagon unloaded though... but I do plan to add coal loads (and hidden weight) I think... Edit: I think the big flaw in the idea is the fact that I'm actually planning to hand-lay track with chairs and wooden sleepers. It'll be nigh-on impossible to lay the track well and to-gauge with bumps and bruises everywhere. Perhaps I'll have to look at some ways of creating optical illusions of poor trackage without it actually being poor....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 OK - new question (Google doesn't seem to be helpful today) - is anyone aware of a currently-produced kit for the Barclay 0-6-0ST, famous for the Mountain Ash 'Llantanam Abbey'? Sir John and Sir Gomer are served by Agenoria and Mercian respectively, which is great - Sir Gomer is quite low down the list, along with the Barclay diesel from the Phurnacite plant, but Llantanam Abbey would be quite important. It's hard to tell from photographs, but it looks as though it might be possible to alter an 0-4-0 16" models with a new chassis? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 ....I'm adding the 'lean-to' awning that appears to the side of the shed opening, but have moved it away a little to form an isolated 'rotten row', in much the same way as the prototype ended up having decrepit locomotives and wagons stored away. ....... You must mean this building - I do not recall the origin of this image, I think it appeared on flickr or somewhere, in which case apologies for the reproduction here. It struck me as highly atmospheric. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 That's the one... and the final scene in my interest in the area with a rail blue diesel looking worn and scruffy on-shed! Just noticed the loading gauge hanging from the cross-beam. Not sure that I've got the heart to replicate the stripped and rusty loco under the awning, but I'll generally use the space to store decrepit wagons and locos lower on the rotation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2014 That's not a loading gauge, it's a'ding' in the horizontal angle of the roof truss behind.... Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2014 OK - new question (Google doesn't seem to be helpful today) - is anyone aware of a currently-produced kit for the Barclay 0-6-0ST, famous for the Mountain Ash 'Llantanam Abbey'? Sir John and Sir Gomer are served by Agenoria and Mercian respectively, which is great - Sir Gomer is quite low down the list, along with the Barclay diesel from the Phurnacite plant, but Llantanam Abbey would be quite important. It's hard to tell from photographs, but it looks as though it might be possible to alter an 0-4-0 16" models with a new chassis? Hi, I think Llantarnam Abbey is a 14" Barclay. I'll ask the owner when I see him next. The boiler is pitched higher on the 0-6-0's to get above the springing. The general arrangement regarding valve gear, etc, is usually the same regarding 4 or 6 wheel 'standard' locomotives, just the extra set of wheels on the bigger locomotives. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Ian, I'd be grateful to have any additional information on Llantarnam Abbey - I may put off attempting a build until after visiting the UK in 8-9 months time, during which trip I hope to see 'the whole family' of locomotives in the flesh! Where does she reside these days? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Siddall Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 'Llantarnam Abbey' is currently under restoration at the Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway just up the road from me. You'll find plenty of 'industrial' inspiration if you visit Blaenavon – just try to pick a clear day when its not too windy ;-) Here's a link to the P&BR 'industrial' loco list with some more information: http://www.pontypool-and-blaenavon.co.uk/pages/enthusiasts/StockItemNew.aspx?id=1 David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2014 Ian, I'd be grateful to have any additional information on Llantarnam Abbey - I may put off attempting a build until after visiting the UK in 8-9 months time, during which trip I hope to see 'the whole family' of locomotives in the flesh! Where does she reside these days? As Dave has said, Llantarnam Abbey is at Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway. There is a collection of Andrew Barclay locomotives on site. However, the collection is by no means exhaustive! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 A small but significant update on proceedings. My other work takes a big bite of my outside-of-regular work time, so my modelling time is a bit light-on. I have succeeded in completing the manually-created sleepering and trackwork template (struggling far too hard to try and emulate my design in Templot!) and have printed it out and started cutting-and-joining the template together. Today, a delightful package from Slater's arrived with the necessary brick walling for the engine shed and wagon repair shop. This is a medium quite difficult to lay hands on here for some reason. I picked up an ancient pack of Slater's telegraph poles from a local shop and assembled them pending paint (the leftover insulators and bar-arms are going to be used to represent "tramway wiring" inside the wagon repair shop) and, along with the brick sheeting, I started my systematic quest to pick up little detail bits for the layout - a pair of cute lost-wax cast lanterns. I also picked up the necessary roller gauge for the trackwork construction - and three packs of 3-hole disc wheels for my present MMP wagon build and the two to follow... The next stage is drawing the engine shed and wagon shop in AutoCAD, then printing some templates, planning out the cutting/manipulation of the six sheets of plastic I have. It's gotta stretch!! I will also pick up the length of pine I need for the extension on the layout, join several extension leads together out the 2nd-storey-window of my apartment down to the alley below and have at it with my jigsaw. This will progressively follow with a C&L order for all of the crazy bits for the trackwork and the rail... finding and manipulating a suitable sleeper material... then the real lunacy can begin! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 The biggest individual construction project on the layout is the engine shed, with its' "intricate" series of fabricated steel roof trusses. Working from multiple photos and applying a bit of creative licence with regards to dimensions, angles and placement, I came to settle on this as the end-elevation. Because I'm mildly insane - and because I wanted to be able to get a fair idea of the parts-list required, said elevation eventually spawned the below full 3D model. I'm using Evergreen Styrene (it's readily available here) - 2.0mm and 3.2mm nominal angle, and 2.0mm I-beam under the roofing iron. Scales out close enough to dimensions I'm happy with - it looks a little fat in the 3D model, but matte paint, dirt and rust and hopefully it'll look better. I'm considering designing and having etched a series of rivet brace-plates to adorn each join. As there's eight trusses in total (orientation reversed on every 2nd one), I'm thinking of making a civilized jig from 3mm MDF to help line it all up. In excess of 200 individual bits of plastic here. Very serious exercise... but it should be fun! A discussion on another board led me to come across some very cool looking LED-based fluorescent light solutions which will help me replicate the scene below... http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/5783754802/in/set-72157626724121567/lightbox/ The 'body' of the shed is the next big drawing project..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Siddall Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The biggest individual construction project on the layout is the engine shed, with its' "intricate" series of fabricated steel roof trusses. Working from multiple photos and applying a bit of creative licence with regards to dimensions, angles and placement, I came to settle on this as the end-elevation... Steps back in admiration! That's an awesome bit of CAD work... in terms of mind-boggling it's a bit like Esher's legendary perspective illusion with the stairs going up and down at the same time :-) David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexible_coupling Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 A big metaphorical monkey is off my back. I hate woodwork - I can scratch things together and generally get a pass-mark, but my failings in the light of others' seeming ability to sneeze and throw together beautiful framing is frustrating! To elaborate from the early images in the other thread - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75020-herrington-road/, a permanent extension of 2'3" has been built and joined on, giving a total overall footprint of 8'3" x 1'6" - of which 6'3" of the length is in the scenic space. The length is the most amount I can fit - with the layout resting vertically on its' end - with the ceiling height in the narrow space between 'fridge and workbench governing things! As the main segment of the layout was originally designed around a significantly different track layout and design, I've had to cut out and 'in-fill' several patches and modify the bridge base over the canal. Filler putty is drying around several of the patches. The source of procrastination has now passed! There will still be a tad more woodwork to come when the pits in the engine shed are cut out - cutting out holes is a hell of a lot easier for me than joinery and framework!! Some final dressing of the filler putty is required - marking out for underlay will follow, then the previously printed/joined paper templates will be laid out in preparation for the serious business of tracklaying........ The 'design' of the engine shed will also get finished off soon, and I can start figuring out how the sheets of brick pattern plastic sheet needs to be sliced and diced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGH Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I'd be grateful to have any additional information on Llantarnam Abbey Andrew Barclay 2074 is indeed a 14" loco, but if you're modelling it be careful how you name it, depending on the date represented. Officially it was LLANTARNAM ABBEY, but the name had disappeared when it went for repair to the NCB's Walkden Workshops,Lancashire in May 1971. It returned to Mountain Ash in September 1971 repainted and with the name incorrectly spelt as LLANTANAM ABBEY. Apparently the name was later corrected at Mountain Ash but it was still incorrectly spelt in July 1975. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 And what were those big cast iron pipes running alongside the river and behind the shed for? I assume a water supply - but for the whole community or just colliery washing use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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