LNER4479

Thanks for taking the time to post these latest pictures, Mike. A fascinating - and fantastic - glimpse of the past in recreating the 'Dockers umbrella' and the railway around it. Railway modelling at its best.

May I contribute to the 'operating' discussion before the thread moves on too far? I love operating - but fully accept that it can be a marmite subject (as some of the responses in this thread prove). Strongly influenced by Mr4479 senior who always had - and still does have - a layout based around a timetable worked to a 24hour clock, my subsequent career on the big railway (some of which has been spent in depot environments) has only added to the fascination of how a railway is operated. One thing not mentioned so far (I think?) is the subject of diagrams. Whenever you see a train go past, the locomotive, the coaches, the footplate crew and the guard are all working to a diagram, being their part of the overall grand master plan that is the operational timetable. Concentrating on the locos for a moment (as that is the item usually of the most interest!), the diagram will be based around whichever depot it started out from. So it will either be working away from home depot ... or working back towards home depot. In the simplest arrangement, it will arrive back at its home depot no more than 8 hours after it left. Why? Because the driver / fireman will have stayed with the loco all their working day - and they would quite like to get back home for their tea! Of course, it could often get more complicated than that. They might, for example, get relieved by another crew half way through their day and subsequently work another loco back home. But it would all be part of a plan (even if said plan all too often could go awry!) Aspects of this can be captured in model form and immediately give a purpose to the operating. In choosing Grantham as a prototype location, the presence of the depot was a key factor in that choice. We have a combination of home locos (eg No.4479!) but also foreigners. So, for example, there is one occasion during the sequence when a King's Cross pacific is relieved at Grantham, visits the depot to turn - but is away again inside two hours to get back to its home depot. Consequently it doesn't need to visit the coaling plant (it has enough coal capacity to make Edinburgh!); whereas when a home loco arrives on depot it will visit the full suite of servicing positions on the depot before most likely disappearing to the back of the shed. All of this activity is planned out on the 'Locomotive Arrangements Board' and it is the depot operator's responsibility to have the right loco - facing the right way(!) - at the appointed moment in the sequence when it is required off shed. As a 'passed out' depot operator, Tony himself can hopefully bear witness to this. We're working hard at the moment to try and get the balance right with the layout in terms of how much of this we portray compared to the simple thrill of seeing trains bomb round. Back to the opening remark in recognising that not everyone's boat is floated by the operational side of things. But the feedback from our opening show at Grantham last September was encouraging, some folks staying for several hours to watch the sequence through (they deserve a medal!). And at the end of the day, if its not your thing then I guess there'll be other layouts in the show where trains are continually circuiting. Vive la difference!

Hi Al, Just dropped by for a look at what you've been up to. Love the New Year photos; and the fibre-optic light for the ground signal is very effective. I haven't bothered with my signals (tut!) but it just shows what's possible. One day, maybe... 'Robert'

Out of interest, what was the separation gap between levels? Some stations seem to be directly on top of each other so you'd want a certain amount of separation to be able to 'get at' stuff on a middle level or lower level station. That might imply several times round the spiral to get between levels? Does indeed look like great fun!

Had a pleasant couple of hours in Mr Duck's company, deep in LSWR territory. We came up with a gentle reverse curve alignment like so, pretty much as per the real location. This involved hutching things up a bit towards the camera but I reckon there is plenty of room at this end to accommodate that and exit the scene gracefully at this end. This means we fit in the full length of the platform loops within the scenic area. We came up with this arrangement at the far end which I think works really well. There is a very handy road overbridge here which is far too good not to use as a scenic break. With this end of the reverse curve aligned as so, the railway exits the scene at an advantageous orientation to take into account the sharper curve round to the left it needs to do once off scene. Next stage is to knock the alignment pins in and adjust to sharpen up the alignment to be nice flowing curves. Talking of which, where was JA? (I was most disappointed!)

Yes - I'd noticed you've crossed the pond. Last seen at Sandy... Right on cue, the can-of-peas concerned is currently under construction!

Hi Ducky, To give you an idea, and for info for others, this is how I do my track laying It's all based around knocking in track alignment pins into the centre of the formation, based on the rough alignment of where you want the track to be. There's then some maths involved (you can deal with the Brandy whilst I'm doing this). At the risk of getting too techie, the offset of one pin from the two either side is measured - a really civil engineer refers to this as a versine (inversely proportional to radius) The position of each pin relative to the others is then adjusted (using some simple maths on my 'pooter - you can deal with the Vodka whilst I'm doing this) until a smooth flow is arrived at. Thereafter, tracklaying is easy-peasy, you just lay it up against the pins as shown - so hopefully I can leave you to do that. Once ballasted, the pins can be hidden (although they can be useful if ever you have to relay). In terms of droppers therefore, it should be possible to pre-solder them to the underside of the rails and drill holes accordingly, safe in the knowledge that the position of the track will be pretty accurate. Do feel free to invite Jenny round to see us doing this - I'm sure she'll be interested (although no avatar cat fights, please)

Bumblebees wasn't it John? (or is that a case of the tale going all apocryphal?) You will notice a flood of 'likes' as I've just whiled away some time on this speeding VTEC train having a read of your thread. Now I've caught up I'll try to keep abreast of your steadily-developing project. I like 'system' layouts ... even if they do feature strange copper-capped creations and oil cans on wheels!

Congrats on p.100 - and keep up the progress (don't go on too many long walks looking for little white balls - we want to see trains circuiting!)

Brilliant, just brilliant 'Monsieur Duck - you're quoting all the wrong facts!' 'No - I'm quoting all the right facts ... but not necessarily in the right order...' (with apologies to...)

Whilst I didn't set myself a Xmas challenge this year per se over the festive season just gone, I ended up continuing the work on the station approach work and pleased to say managed to get it to some sort of conclusion. Work on the station approach retaining wall saw it meeting up with the back of platform 1 at which point several interesting things happen. This includes the entrance to the footpath tunnel under the station and also that the wall becomes the back of the horse landing loading dock area. Here is the maximum extent of the wall with the loading platform now constructed. Got a bit tricky with levels here so, in the linking piece of platform, I have suggested a fall from the platform towards to the roadway at the back of the station. Finished! (well, for now at least). I've put the canopy back in place to show how all this fits in. Sort of looks 'interesting' from this angle, a quiet little corner that rarely appears in photos of the real thing. By cheating (removing the station buildings at the north end of platform 2) we get the view looking the other way. This shows quite well how the retaining wall (right hand side) forms the back of the horse landing. Meanwhile down on the roadway, the delivery drays go about their business. This is the reality however - at exhibitions most of this won't be seen as it's largely hidden from view by the canopy!! This viewpoint will be available however, if you're standing round the corner towards the north end. Just need to apply some treatment to that bare area of wood at the top of the retaining wall. And the scene will be greatly enhanced when the lift out board returns from its winter detailing work (bottom left).

In both cases, I think that can be arranged

Have to say that I totally agree with this (very interesting) discussion point, very much a 'pet' subject of mine. I have been modelling based on the prototype for 30 years now and have worked for the big railway all my professional career - yet I'm never too old to learn and can always find something useful to add to the knowledge bank when looking at a new book. Time spent looking at pictures of the real thing and absorbing the detail is rarely time wasted (and a particularly useful past time when travelling around and away from the modelling workbench). Time spent browsing second hand book racks is equally enjoyable and enlightening. I would also add that there are few prototype lines or locations for which a specific book (or books) have not been published - just look at the range in the Middleton Press series in the Ian Allan bookshelves for example. Many of these contain details of working timetables, train formations, etc. Bob Essery wrote a series of books on the subject of prototype operation for the modeller (others have probably done similar) and a book like that is a recommended introduction for any who may be daunted by getting to grips with this vast but totally absorbing subject. There again - it is 'only' a hobby and Rule 1 can be invoked at any time!

OK, here we go... Despite several efforts, it's not perhaps 100% clear, so I'll attempt an explanation: Each 'cock' is made up from two handrail knobs, one at 90o to the other. The draincock pipe (0.45 brass) goes through the eye of a small handrail knob, the shank of which is then located in the eye of the second (older, bigger style, which I fortunately have plenty in stock). The eye of the second knob has to be drilled out to 0.8mm to take the shank of the first knob. The shank of the second knob then locates in the hole at the bottom of the cylinder, intended for the moulded draincocks supplied with the model. The only other additional part is an appropriate length of brass strip to assist with mounting and locating the cocks - it bears a passable resemblance to the draincocks operating rod. By mounting them like this, they are rather handily offset outwards from the centre line of the cylinder (not too apparent from normal viewing) which all helps with bogie clearances. The guard irons? They're cut from 15 thou nickel silver. I made a thin card template first then used this to cut the metal ones to shape. As might be apparent, they put up a bit of a fight as the front screws holding the chassis in place were somewhat in the way! PS - slightly belated Happy New Year! (Been away for a few days)

Sure thing - but give us a day or two as I'm not in a position to take a picture just at the moment... Well spotted! I never intended to use the whitemetal one in its entirety as I felt that the very top of it didn't look right. Some of the GN 4-4-0's had the top of the chimney turned down to enable operation outside ex-GN areas; the donor chimney looked more like that, but I didn't like that look. Meanwhile, the brass one had the right looking top to it but was too tall, so it was a case of combining the two. I actually turned a spigot on the top of the whitemetal part which the bottom of the brass part (being hollow) fitted over.

They're scratchbuilt, Mick. Brass wire bent to shape then I've used some handrail knobs to represent the cocks themselves from where the pipes emerge. I also used some thin fuse wire to represent the clamp that holds them together. The pipes are set slightly wider than they should be to allow the bogie to swing from side to side Bit fiddly but worth the effort (IMHO)

Well that's very kind of you, Larry - thank you Like many on here, I find the festive season a productive time for modelling so, in between the mince pies and figgy puddin' I've been plodding on with some loco projects. Work has progressed with the D4 to D3 conversion. Here, the most obvious visual difference is being tackled, being the extended smokebox. Rummaging around in the scrap box yielded a suitable whitemetal extension piece (goodness only knows where it originally came from!) It was of slightly too large diameter, so just needed a small piece cut out and the remainder squeezing into a slightly smaller shape. That done, it was attached such that the joint was bottom dead centre (and hence effectively out of sight. A rummage round in the chimneys and domes box was less successful in finding direct replacement parts so I set about modifying larger whitemetal items. As I don't possess a lathe, I set up this makeshift arrangement using my hand-drill mounted in a vice. The results of those efforts, shown temporarily propped on top of the boiler / smokebox. Beginning to look the part now. The 'smokebox doors' box contained a suitable looking item, from which I just had to cut off its bottom flange (must've been intended for a loco without a smokebox extension). With chimney and dome now permanent attached, fixing the smokebox door seals it all in place. Some further detail and she's ready for the paintshop. Details consist of guard irons, smokebox door handles, handrail and top lamp bracket. Even though I never saw one of these things (I can't imagine many of today's RMWebbers would have, come to that!), it seems to look 'right' comparing with the pictures I have to hand. Meanwhile, some of the big stuff has also received some attention Existing members of the Grantham stud 4479 and 2558 are joined by a newcomer... Work has involved fitting guard irons to two of them (4479 had them already) and all had have useable lamp irons fitted. The A4 has now had full-length drain pipes fitted, which are attached to the guard irons. For me, this is quite an important part of the pre-war front end look (the full guard irons were removed and the drain pipes cut back in BR days). With that, I can reveal the identity of the new member of the fleet... Ladies & Gentlemen - I give you long term* King's Cross resident 4467 'Wild Swan' (*allocated there from new till 5/39 then back in 1941, 1944 and 1950-1963)

Fantastic! I particularly like the depth of the pictures looking across towards the mainlines - the backscene effect is very effective. Something I'm grappling with at the moment. All the best for 2016.

Many thanks Tony for the additional picture. Yes, working on the railway - but it's now getting to be lots of little things rather than any one single major project as in previous years. That includes some loco projects - one of which is a surprise package - which I'll leave you in suspense about just for the time being!

Thanks Al, All the best to you and yours over the festive season. I'm enjoying seeing the work progressing on the Bakewell signals. All the best for 2016 Ooh - ta! That'll come in useful when I'm sat working on the layout...

Another here who believes a RTR RF is a missed opportunity. And in terms of train lengths, many LNER expresses in the pre-war period were formed around 6 or even 5 coach 'core' formation. So, if you ignore the additional through portions and single vehicles, a perfectly formed train need be no more than: BTK-TK-TK-TO-RF-BFK Accepting that a BFK is a somewhat rarer animal, a variation on that could be: BTK-TK-TO-RF-FK-BG (thinking about what other RTR vehicles might be available) Going smaller still, some 5 vehicle core formations: BTK-TO-RF-CK-BTK (most LNER routes except GN West Riding services) BTK-TK-RTP*-RF-BFK (GN West Riding services) (*TO a close substitute) Where many have to compromise on 6 or 5 coach formations for their layouts, such formations are perfectly suitable - and certainly no reason to exclude a proper restaurant vehicle such as the RF from an RTR range. I regard the buffet vehicle as a popularist choice for RTR. Being some of the later built Gresley vehicles and finding themselves increasingly useful as the trend towards beffet cars increased post-war, many lasted into the 1970's BR blue era (as is well-known) and were subsequently snapped up by the preserved railways (nothing wrong in that of course) hence appearing to be quite a common vehicle. By contrast, I believe just 3 Gresley RFs survive in preservation - and none of them are in anything like restored, running condition. Shame.

That's Mrs4479, that is! She'll be right cross with you...

Avatar change alert!! It's all that Great Northern's fault! Compliments of the season!

I'm feeling a little left out with all these classy avatars flying about so ... after three and a half years, I'm changing mine! Do you think I'll be able to keep it up...? (Fnarr, fnarr!)