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Rivercider
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Posts posted by Rivercider
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The British Steel strike of 1980 saw the storage, (and later condemnation) of large numbers of unfitted coal wagons, particularly MCOs and HTOs. From my own observation at work on BR in Bristol unfitted coal wagons became much rarer in the West Country after 1980.
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5 hours ago, Sol said:
Thanks to all who have responded.
So I assume intermediate / sorting yards would have their own locos to get trains ready, to be added to trains coming in & then continuing on & of course to sort out stock being left at that sorting yard & I again assume that sorting yard would have been advise in advance how many items of rolling stock is being left there for them to sort?
There would be no standard answer to that, some yards might have a shunting loco or yard pilot available around the clock, while other yards might only have a shunting loco for a few hours a day. In general experienced yard staff would have an idea of what traffic might be arriving, though seasonal variations could change things considerably, domestic coal, seed potatoes, and sugar beet traffic would be examples. If a large or important local customer or factory was expecting a large order the station master or local inspectors would probably be expecting it.
I remember being told by an old hand railwayman who worked at Bridgwater telling me that when the local shunting engine came on duty each morning they had to sort out traffic that had been detached from passing trains in the evening and over night, at busy times the yard was so congested it was hard to shunt.
Geography played a part in the freight working at Taunton. The steep Wellington Bank to the west of Taunton meant that westbound freight trains could only take a reduced load west of Taunton. This was OK if a train from Bristol or London heading west had some traffic to be detached at Taunton, but might restrict the ability of Taunton to dispatch traffic westwards.
Likewise the steep banks of Cornwall and South Devon restricted the maximum loads of freight trains, many of which were assisted as far east as Newton Abbot. In fact even in recent times it has sometimes been the practice to run some heavy trains in two portions over the banks to either Newton Abbot or Exeter Riverside where the portions are combined into one train to work forward.
Yeoford on the former LSWR/SR line from Exeter to Barnstaple had a small three road yard that sorted out west bound freight traffic, it was enlarged to seven roads in WWII. There was no permanent shunting loco there, but during the course of 24 hours several different locos were available to shunt. Some were passing trains that called for an hour or two, while at other times a loco was booked there for a couple of hours. At one time empty cattle trucks were held at Yeoford, waiting to be called forward to stations for loading on market day.
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14 hours ago, 4901 said:
The manager of Real Salt Lake - Major League Soccer (USA) - made this remarkably astute and profound comment yesterday.
"I just think goals change games," head coach Pablo Mastroeni said.
I enjoyed some of the words of wisdom of former Exeter City manager Paul Tisdale.
He said words to the effect that being 2 - 0 up in a game was one of the most difficult positions to be in, not knowing whether to shut up shop, or press to kill the game off. Personally I would have thought that being 2 - 0 down was a worse position!
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I am no signalling expert, so won't comment on details, but it might be important to have more information.
Which railway built and operated the station, and when is it set as signalling arrangements might vary over time,
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The Parcels Sector was rebranded as RES in 1991.
Here are more photos from Flickr taken at Barton Hill
From Flickr by DMC1947 taken inside one of the sheds Feb 1992. (I searched for Barton Hill 1992)
Searching Flickr for 'Barton Hill 1996' this came up
From Flickr by Alan Bark. This shows the former GWR broad gauge shed, much amended and now used for loco exam and service.
The former Midland sheds are to the left and slightly below this view.
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Have a look at Barton Hill in Bristol.
The depot there had a complicated history. Originally two separate loco sheds side by side (one Midland Railway, the other GWR broad gauge). After they closed as steam sheds they were used as carriage and wagon workshops for decades. When Sectorisation of BR took place Barton Hill became part of RES and took over maintenance of the parcel fleet for the WR and beyond. Later when Bath Road loco depot closed the fuelling and exam of RES class 47s took place. There are photos on Flick, I searched for 'Barton Hill RES).
This from Flickr taken in 2000 by Steve McMullin
Looking the other way another view of Barton Hill.
From Flickr posted by Jeremy de Souza LRPS, but possibly taken by the late Mike Miller.
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6 hours ago, C126 said:
Just one thought: won't it look a little strange the Freights being propelled such a long way out 'off stage' upon departure? Ditto, any loco-hauled peak-time service E.C.S.
Have the freight propelled in to the depot from the local yard which is just off-scene 'up the line'. You might, or might not, need a brake van at the front of the propelling move depending on local circumstances as shown in the Sectional Appendix.
In the Bristol area in the 1980s freight traffic was propelled from Lawrence Hill yard along the freight only Avonside Branch for about a mile to Avonside Wharf, there being no run-round facilities at Avonside. Also in Avonmouth the Rowntrees warehouse at Avonmouth was served by a trip working that then propelled back (right line) for about two miles to Hallen Marsh due to the track layout at Avonmouth. Both moves required a brake van at the front of the movement in which shunters and guard rode as they both crossed gated road crossings.
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In the 1970s and 1980s Barnstaple had a weekday train service of seven or eight trains (much less than today).
Generally the services were worked by DMUs, but with one or two loco hauled services in each direction.
The May 1976 WTT showed a couple of loco hauled trains.
The 07.35 Barnstaple to Exeter St Davids was a loco hauled mixed train for which special instructions were included in the Sectional Appendix, as well as mk1 carriages the train conveyed former Fruit Ds and was restricted to 45 mph, (the loco got to Barnstaple working a freight service).
The 16.00 Exeter St Davids to Barnstaple was loco hauled mk1 set, this set returned as the 17.35 Barnstaple to Exeter St Davids passenger and milk.
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3 hours ago, Covkid said:
I was involved in Trainload Coal 1992-1994 and was in TOPS prior to that. I am not doubting the mentions of Discrete Coal Network on here, but I only remember it being titled the Speedlink Coal Network (SCN). Perhaps the Speedlink name was replaced, but it became Trainload Freight West's / Transrail's Enterprise service in the 1990s.
My memory was that in 1986/87 the Speedlink Coal Network was established. Though some remote coal depots were still served by local trips off the Speedlink network at that stage. Later the name was changed to Network Coal to further differentiate from Speedlink.
My impression at the time was that it was ridiculous to separate two traffic types onto separate networks, many terminals (both coal depots and general freight customers) barely warranted a daily service, so to split resources into two seemed madness to me. At the time I was merely a lower grade clerical officer in WR HQ at Swindon, but use of the TOPS system made it obvious to me that the traffic was not there.
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I don't have any WR WTTs for 1973/74, but I do have some for 1976/77. Back then there was a Mandatory WTT and a Conditional WTT for each Division. Quite a few of the Conditional freight trains did run each day, though others were more by customer request or traffic demand.
The WR London Division Mandatory WTT is PA, you would also need the London Division Conditional WTT PF which contains some of the freight workings.
One observation. By 1987/88 Acton Yard had more or less ceased to deal with wagon load traffic, (it never became a proper part of the Speedlink Network), but was then used as a hub principally for aggregate traffic from the Mendips,
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On 11/04/2024 at 19:49, Wickham Green too said:
How many piped vehicles survived at that time without having gained 'proper' vac-brakes ? ...... I've certainly never heard of a VANPIPE or similar coding !
When I joined BR in 1977 the WR civil engineers had no bogie rail carrying vehicles with vacuum brakes, (or air brakes either). A few of the Sturgeons were vac piped code YBP, likewise a few of the Ganes were piped code YLP, and some of the Salmons were piped code YMP.
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I get the impression that you have given quite a bit of thought to the back story for the Nottingham Extension.
The question as to whether there was an engine shed at Stanley would depend on a number of factors including where
the first train of the day starts from. Another factor would be who built the Stanley branch? If it was promoted by a small local company there is more chance they would have provided a shed for their loco at their terminus. If the LNWR promoted and built the line then perhaps more likely they would have resourced the line from their nearest existing loco shed?
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On Thursday we visited Parke NT, and as usual walked around part of the estate including along the track bed of the former Moretonhampstead branch towards the north. This was our first visit for some time and when we reached the end of the cleared path the skew bridge over a minor public road (just North of Pullabrook Farm) has new timber fencing across it and the undergrowth has been cleared. It looked to me like the Wray Valley Trail is to be extended further north across the bridge towards Lustleigh,does anyone know if this is the case?
Edit - I see the skew bridge is actually the Yeo Road Bridge, near to the site of Hawkmoor Halt, which was later renamed Pullabrook Halt.
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3 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:
How many piped vehicles survived at that time without having gained 'proper' vac-brakes ? ...... I've certainly never heard of a VANPIPE or similar coding !
There were a number of vac-piped cokehops, we occasionally got a few of them on the coke traffic to Hallen Marsh. Since they generally arrived mixed in with the larger number of unfitted cokehops I suspect the pipes were seldom used,
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15 minutes ago, MattR said:
Thank you! That makes sense.
I did look at Paul's site last night and had noticed that most of the ones hauling rail were the Bolster Cs and that the As appear mostly as match trucks.
I have had a quick read through some of the wagon books I have by David Larkin, if I understand it right BR built new vacuum braked wagons coded Bogie Bolster E to replace the earlier Bogie Bolster A. These were TOPS code BEV, but many were quickly modified or rebuilt particularly for coil traffic.
This must have meant that the earlier Bogie Bolster A were all withdrawn (or transferred to engineers use) before TOPS was introduced, thus freeing up the TOPS code BAA for the new air braked coil carriers,
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Bogie Bolster A was the code given to the shortest of the bogie vehicles, up to 35 feet length I believe.
As such they were too short for the civil engineers to convey rails, which would have been in a minimum of 45' lengths by then. Edit - they might have been useful for shorter cut up scrap rail?
As you have spotted Bogie Bolster A wagons that went to the civil engineers were used as runners and match wagons,
have you had a look at the Paul Bartlett wagon photo site?
TOPS codes for engineer and service vehicle fleet were Yxx for bogie vehicles.
TOPS code YNO/YNP/YNV covered Prawn Shrimp and Whelk, but I think these were former Bogie Bolster C so were longer.
If the civil engineers did take former Bogie Bolster A wagons for use carrying materials I would expect them to be coded either YNO/YNP/YNV depending on whether the vehicle was unfitted/vacuum piped/vacuum braked.
TOPS code YSO/YSP/YSV covered miscellaneous operating vehicles like runner, match and ramp wagons which is what some Bogie Bolster A wagons became,
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Hi Andi, I have photographed the print of the photo I took in November 1983, sorry there is some reflected light.
Ipswich Yard, 11/11/83.
I don't have any photos of London Road bridge, I assume it was the bridge I was standing on to take the photo?
I did take photos from the next bridge to the north, but much too far away see any detail of London Road bridge,
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Hi Andi.
Do you mean this signal box?
Photo off Flickr by Jamerail (Swindon 123 on RMweb). dated 7/2/84
I have found a photo of the box I took in November 1983, I can try to scan or photograph the print, and post it here if it is the right one.
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25 minutes ago, DY444 said:
It's Nottingham.
The 20s are where P7 is now.
The 56 is at the east end. The pipe bridge visible on the left is still there.
Yes I see it now, (though I admit my first thought was also Burton)
I took a few photos at Nottingham in 1982
A tank train passing Nottingham behind 45016 25/3/82
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1 hour ago, The Border Reiver said:
I have obtained my late friend's photos who never recorded numbers, dates or locations. It looks like this slide was taken on the western region. On my original hi-def tiff scan the station name on the far left might read Reading. It is a blue class 50 50025 standing ay the platform. Can anyone confirm the location is Reading?
50025 Invincible went into Doncaster Works for refurbishment on 3/2/82, so it must be before that date.
Edit - if this is another photo from 1981 then it must be before 26/7/81 as Invincible had been bulled up prior to working the Doncaster Dart railtour.
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9 hours ago, The Border Reiver said:
I have obtained my late friend's photos who never recorded numbers, dates or locations. This slide was the next in sequence from the previous slide taken at Liskeard and the next slide taken at Dawlish Warren. It is possibly at or between Newton Abbot and Paignton. It is a blue class 31 with some interesting ironwork behind. Can anyone identify the location and if possible the locos number?
The traincrew depot and carriage sidings at Newton Abbot were closed late 1981 after the summer timetable had finished, possibly November 1981. This ties in with the reasoning for the date of the Liskeard photo, the date some time between May and November 1981,
A Bath Road or Old Oak 31/1 is most likely, though there were visitors from further afield.
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Probably not quite the same thing, but at Exeter Central the only access to the carriage shed and sidings at the east end was from the down bay platform. This also gave access to a siding with coal merchants.
This picture from Flickr shows the carriage shed, there are sidings passing either side of the Miller and Lilley warehouse on the right.
Edit - here is another photo off Flickr by Tom Derrington. I think the coal sidings in the background could only be accessed from the down bay platform.
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What you have arrived at here, by accident or design, is a version of an 'inglenook' shunting puzzle with three sidings.
A freight train running anti-clockwise can stop and shunt at the station. If shunting is something you enjoy then there could be a challenge in shunting a passing train to detach and attach traffic while getting wagons into the right siding.
Clockwise trains are restricted to passenger services, but if a DMU became available then a realistic service is possible.
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Box, for Box bank
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Class 47s on unfitted coal trains - when did they cease
in UK Prototype Questions
Posted
I have spent quite some time searching Flickr for a class 47 on unfitted coal trains, they were very elusive. All I could find were a couple of green 47s in the 1960s, and a couple more from the 1970s taken before headcodes ceased to be displayed.
From the era after the end of headcodes there is this by Dave Jolly taken at Newcastle in 1982, though they look to be all 21t MDOs?
47197 Newcastle 23/7/82 by Dave Jolly.
I also found one that I took at Wakefield in 1981, not a coal train, but a lengthy very mixed freight with MCOs at the rear.
Wakefield Kirkgate 47218, that is the end of the train on the far right, 18/9/81
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