Painting locomotives without (much) paint.

[Penlan]

Somewhere on this thread I mentioned I would try it on a PO wagon, the wagon is almost done, I was going to add Tare, Load and No. with other transfer, then realised the white's would be different colours.  So more decals being prepared - I have used white decal paper, thus the actual print ink is black.  I have yet to add a protective varnish on the wagon too.

 

It's a start to some easy to apply PO liveries...

 

The wagon is Hornby's 'Evans & Bevan', which with fixed ends is wrong anyway, but for my needs it is a 15' (external length) wagon...

 

I do the art work using Word Art on some pro-forma wagon images I have on Excel, then I resize the 'Page Set-Up' to give me the print output size I want, this one was 23% of the original working Excel sheet.  It works for me, so I'm happy.

 

Edited September 12, 2015 by Penlan

[kirtleypete]

Nice one! It's easy to do a fleet now too, just altering the number each time.

 

Peter

[Penlan]

Well not a lot seems to have happened here, but meanwhile I thought I would use the same principle for a couple of other Cenral Wales PO's.

 

These still need tidying up, buffers, couplings and I shalll probably redo the numbers, but otherwise, almost ready for revenue service.

 

 

So many thanks for posting the idea,

which I seem to recall Ian Rice used long ago on some complex S. E & C. Rly loco lining.

[kirtleypete]

Nicely done! I used to model the SECR in the 1990's and did all the lining with a Bob Moore lining pen - it wasn't my idea of fun. 

 

I'll add more to this thread when I do my next loco, which should be a Stroudley single with lots of horrible curves.....

 

Peter

[JimF51]

Pete, maybe a more in depth 'how to' of using paper for wagons, coaches and locos could be a future book, to go with your current 2 excellent ones?

 

Jim Flynn

[kirtleypete]

I did a series of four articles about it Jim, sent it to all the mainstream modelling magazines and none were interested. The RM said it was 'too much for our readers' which I think is a pretty patronising attirtude. 

 

I hadn't thought of doing a book but it's worth thinking about. I've got more than two by the way, it's more like twenty four at the moment. When I get more stock finished it might be something to do then; I've 2-2-2 and 0-4-2T loco's half built and the 2-2-2 is going to be a real challenge. If I can finish that well I'll be happy to tackle anything.

 

Peter

[alastairq]

 

 

2-2-2

 

 

Is it going to be powered via the outer axles, with the driver being unpowered?  

[kirtleypete]

No, there isn't room and I don't like tender drives. It will drive on the centre axle and I'll hope for the best! If the worst happens I can always double head it with a Terrier..............

 

Peter

[JimF51]

Peter, sorry. Yes, I know of your other books, I was just thinking of the 2 I have, 'Using Printed Papers In Railway Modelling' and  'Scratchbuilt Buildings The Kirtley Way'. 

 

A shame the magazines felt that way, but I do think they focus more and more on RTR type items, nowadays. Perhaps offer it to the Guild O Gazette?

 

Anyway, thanks you for all the info, and the great thread regarding Saltdean.

 

Jim Flynn

[Caley Jim]

When building his GER 2-2-2 with 7' drivers, Trevor Nunn used compensation beams with off-centre pivots to transfer more weight to the drivers. .....

I did a similar thing with my CR 2-2-2WT (for hauling the officer's saloon) in 2FS.

 

Jim

[kirtleypete]

The problem I've got with the LBSC loco is that the leading and trailing wheels are different sizes so I can't drive off them; I think I do need to add compensation as you suggest. Watch this space!

Peter

[Penlan]

As I have all the MRJ's....
I have now found the original article I was thinking of, but I had the author wrong.
MRJ 3 (yes way back in 3) 'Robin Arkinstall - Tackling Ornate Livery in 4mm Scale'.

This article dealt with the S.E. & C. Rly livery.

(This item did not show up in a ex. on-line listing of MRJ items).

 

There's a more recent (?) item in MRJ 114.
'Peter Kirmond - Painting and Lining using decal sheet'.

This is a simpler, GCR loco livery.

 

If Tanatvalley is reading this, MRJ 3 is the mag., with the late Mike Morton-Lloyds very nice 'Tafolog' '0' guage layout featured, based on the Tanat Valley line.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Penlan

[kirtleypete]

I've begun painting/decorating 'Dieppe' built from a kit by Mike Waldron.  Here's the real loco:

 

 

She's a beauty! 

 

My model is pretty bare because all the fittings have to be added later, including the rows of rivets which I'll do using Archer's transfers. Mike's 7mm kits don't have castings so they'll have to be sourced from wherever I can find them. 

 

Here is the loco in primer:

 

 

On this one, rather than spraying the whole thing black I'm going to brush paint the black areas.

 

I began adding the printed papers one at a time.....

 

 

That splasher took a lot of tries before it was useable.

 

 

I added the claret pieces to the loco before I realised I'd missed off the yellow lines so they'll have to be done again. I thought they looked a bit dull!

 

 

Hopefully the wheels will arrive tomorrow so she should finally look like an engine. 

 

Peter

Edited October 12, 2015 by kirtleypete

[kirtleypete]

She's moved on quite well today - I was hoping the wheels would arrive but no such luck.

 

 

Everything with lining on is printed on paper (gloss photo paper this time) and then glued to the engine with Evostick. I've got the name a bit big but there comes a point when you have to say that will have to do.

 

 

Stroudley tenders were painted red oxide on top as this was hard wearing; in my case it's Railmatch dark rust. 

 

 

The claret parts have been done in sections and you can just see the joins but doing it as one piece would have been much more difficult. The cab spectacles were glazed with Microscale Krystal Kleer. 

 

I really need the wheels now before I do any more, as well as all those fittings of course. 

 

Pete

[Nick Holliday]

I hate to be a killjoy regarding your superb workmanship, but, generally, with the Stroudley livery the boiler band which butts up against the smoke box is narrower than the rest, missing out the final fine lines and going right up to the black smoke box, and this can be seen, just, in your prototype photo, and on your earlier D1 tank. However, I do have a photo of another Craven single, Norwood, which is exactly as yours, so perhaps this justifying it.

[kirtleypete]

You're right Nick, I'd missed that. I'm not changing it now!

 

Peter

Edited October 13, 2015 by kirtleypete

[richard i]

darn that loco looks good. That has really got me thinking.

keep it up.

Richard

[Northroader]

That is starting to look a really tasty engine. I did an article on building a 222T in the GOG Gazette, November 2011. Basically the idea is to have the leading and driving axles in fixed bearings in the frame, and have the trailing one floating. yOu then add as much weight as you can, but so's the centre of gravity is just in front of the driving axle. In your case it would help to keep the tender drawbar in line or just below the driving axle centre. On my loco. The all-up weight was nearly 2lb., 890 grams. It could take three 6wheelers quite comfortably. If you're worried about the motor (Mashima 1833), I was using 36:1 gear ratio, you could always get a higher ratio, to run slower, but get a bit more pull. I'll be interested to see this one come together.

[kirtleypete]

The wheels arrive this afternoon, I'll have more idea of what to do once they are fitted. 

 

Peter

[kirtleypete]

The single has moved on, and I've also made progress with the 0-4-2T No. 467. 

 

 

Everything with lining or lettering on is printed on paper and glued in place. I experimented by using gloss photo paper rather than matt and it's given a very high gloss finish, even after a coat of satin varnish. It will need toning down once the engine is finished. Interestingly it has also changed the colour, it is a redder shade than before which is no bad thing because colour varied a lot in those days once weathering began to take hold. 

 

 

 

She has a compensating beam connecting the centre and rear axles on each side, and the front axle has vertical movement with a central pivot which should hopefully keep all the wheels on the track and give some traction. There are no pickups, she collects current from one side on the tender and the other on the loco by shorting out the Slater's wheels on that side with wire and conductive paint. The drawbar is a design by John Smith, with a sprung plate to keep the hook touching the live wire loop - on the loco the brass wire runs through a plastic tube and a wire to the decoder will be soldered to the other end.

 

 

Next week I'll get the fittings ordered, and perhaps a motor might be a good idea!

 

The 0-4-2T is one of a pair which were the first loco's built by Stroudley after he took over...the real 467 was scrapped in 1888 and never went anywhere near Saltdean, but what the heck, I like it! 

 

 

She was allocated a name but never carried it, just the numberplate in the middle of the sidetank. 

 

 

I made a right pigs ear of the top of the firebox; I'm hoping it will look better with the fittings in place and I can always scatter some fire irons about. The dome will cover the join in the papers half way along the boiler. 

 

Once these loco's are complete I'll feel better about having enough to run Saldean at York next year, with no doubt another Terrier as insurance. 

 

Peter

[Edwardian]

A great way to produce complex shapes and lining convincingly.  They certainly have the 'wow' factor.

[JimF51]

I am seriously going to explore this method for my OO locos, I think it would be a lot less fiddly.

 

Jim F

[Edwardian]

I'd like to see that, Jim

[ianmaccormac]

Peter

May I ask, that when you have time, you post a photo of the chassis showing the beam compensation please. Interested to see what you mean and if you have used hornblocks or whatever.

This is certainly starting to look like a very good way to decorate the locos. Many thanks for the time it must take to post this up, most interesting.

Cheers

Ian

[kirtleypete]

I hesitate to let anyone see what goes on inside my loco's Ian, but here goes!

 

 

This is the driving axle and the rear one; as you can see I have yet to fit the motor. You can just see the 2mm brass wire compensating beam resting on top of the wheel bearings; there is one on each side of the chassis. 

 

This is the view from below:

 

 

It pivots on a beam at the half way point, the compensating beams are soldered to a piece of brass tube which slides onto the crosspiece, with the length of white plastic tube keeping them in place. It's not highly technical by any means but it should work; I'll know once the motor is in and I can see how much room there is for adding weight. 

 

The wire on the left running along the plastic tube is the connection to the tender and has to be isolated from the chassis; one wire to the decoder will be soldered to the end of it. 

 

The front axle is pivoted in the centre so hopefully all the wheels should stay on the track:

 

 

The pivot rests on a length of brass tube through which the axle runs. 

 

I haven't use any hornblocks, just a length of 2mm brass wire soldered to the outside of the chassis either side of the axle hole, after which the hole was lengethened top and bottom by filing. The bushes had the edges ground off on either side so when they are in place they are kept between the wires and cannot turn round, but can slide up and down. Like a hornblock, but simpler and cheaper. 

 

The loco's mave made some progress...

 

 

She looks a bit odd without a chimney! The dome is from an LNWR Coal tank and the safety valve is Midland - you do have to use some imagination. I scatchbuilt the axleboxes and springs in plastic.

 

 

The 0-4-2T is looking more complete but a lot is still missing. I'm aiming to have both engines finished by next weekend if I can.

 

 

Finally, I may as well take this chance to say that I am writing a book (following the suggestion on this thread) which goes into a lot more detail about the technique; it should be available in a month or so. 

 

Peter

Edited October 25, 2015 by kirtleypete