1951 Pullman Scratchbuild in 1/32

[hendie]

Creeping forward...

 

Withe the dynamo fixed in place, it was the turn of the support brace. I made one up in styrene but wasn't happy with it, then found a piece of brass angle which worked quite well. A small hole was drilled to accept some brass rod for the brace to the dynamo.  The "clamp" was made from a scrap of styrene drilled through then cut in half.

 

 

Now all fixed.  T'was surprisingly difficult to get it all to go together.

 

 

More scraps were called into action to make an electrical box, and the first decal of the build was added.

 

 

The electrical box was then wired to the dynamo using lead wire. - decals also added to the dynamo.  I think there's supposed to be three wires, but two will do for now.  If I get really bored, I'll add a third!

 

 

And the electrical box was fixed in place with E6000

 

 

Now that has just got to get painted another shade of black and I *think* I can call the underside finished, at least for the moment. Of course, usually when I come out with that comment I then find something else that needs done  - but let's roll with that for now.

 

And I just found the "not finished" part !   The chain for the dynamo and the belt to the bogie still need added !

 

Oh well.

[bigbadbadge]

Hi

 

Great work, the Dynamo and associated wiring looks lovely. 

 

All the best
Chris

[hendie]

Thanks Chris, it turned out a lot better than I anticipated, especially since this was my first attempt at anything with a lathe

[hendie]

Well, a day of frustration, annoyance, cursing and progress - in other words, an average day for a modeler (aside from the progress part!)

 

I plonked myself downstairs at a reasonably early hour this morning to immerse myself in things trainy.  The dynamo safety chain got fitted - The chain isn't exactly to scale but it's close enough, it was easy to find, and it was cheap.  I'm not going to tie myself in knots over that part.

 

 

Now, the right way up - Still to paint the brackets but I wasn't having a painting day today.

 

 

I can't remember if I've shown a shot of this area now all the doobrie-wotsits and greeblies have been fitted, but I think it's looking remarkably industrial and oldy-worldy - train like.

 

 

I mentioned earlier I was going to get back on to the superstructure today.   Well, I did. It was frustrating.   I tried making some side frames by hand - it was very time consuming, frustrating, and not very pretty. It was incredible difficult to keep everything aligned and looking neat, particularly the corners of the windows.

 

In the end I resorted to the supposedly automatic computer controlled cutter.  It was also incredibly frustrating.  For whatever reason, it does not like these side frames.  Not one bit.  I don't know whether it's the length of the parts or it's just crappy software/hardware.

Here's a typical issue.... note how the radius on the top right corner of the window doesn't match up with the rest.  The cutter does this randomly but far too often for my liking.

In the end, I found the best (not perfect by far!) results were obtained by using a very low pressure, fast speed and doing a double cut.  That left enough of a trough for me to follow with a new blade in the knife and eventually got all the windows cut out.  There will be some remedial work in the future, but I've had enough of phaffing about with these side frames and want to start moving forward.

 

 

I even went as far as getting some quotes from on-line businesses for laser cutting, but quotes went from $25 to $75 and no-one was very confident of the results.... so home made, and remedial work it is then !

While I was cutting, I drew up the vestibule ends and the diaphragms and got them cut out at the same time.  When I'm cutting smaller parts like these the cutter seems to handle things reasonably well though it's still not entirely happy with extremely small radii such as those in the vestibule window openings.

 

 

The rule shown above will give you an idea of how big this thing is going to be when it's finished.  (pssst.... it's in inches, not real world units)

 

Though only two vestibule ends are shown above, I cut out a few extra while the cutter was running. The reason for that is that this (the superstructure) is the area where I have no plan, and I know I'm going to screw up at least one set while trying to figure this thing out.  All my focus was on the chassis and getting that to a decent state that I've never really put much forethought into how this is all going together.  I really need to sit down and go through my drawings again to start designing for this scale.  However, the temptation to make a start proved too much so I carried on regardless....

I cut a template with the same profile as the vestibule end which allowed me to start putting together the three pieces that make up the vestibule end, and start adding some stiffeners for some structural strength.

 

 

I have started to cut out the entrance in the vestibule end, but not fully - I wanted to leave as much as I could in there to help keep the shape while it's all going together.  Once I'm happy with the strength, I'll finish cutting out the door.

and that's it for this evenings installment I'm afraid.   Here's a quick shot of the vestibule end sitting on the chassis...

 

 

It is sitting a bit high just now due to the template I have taped in there as a former, but at least it's given me a little bit of confidence that my dimensions are right. Everything I had for this area was face on dimensions, and not true dimensions so a little bit of trigonometry had to be used to figure out the width of the sections on each side of the central throughway.

 

At least I am starting to feel I am making some headway.  The chassis seemed to take forever, and the side frames were a real stumbling block for a while, but I think I can start moving forward now.

[Spitfire2865]

When you say the laser cutters werent confident, Ive never had issue with CNC operated cutters, once its all set up correctly. And £25 for what I assume is the two sides seems like an extremely good deal from quotes Ive gotten in the past.

[hendie]

The cost wasn't the deciding factor, some of the prices were a bit out there, but the $25 quote I thought was reasonable. However, it was the fact that the several companies I approached seemed very apprehensive about the quality of the cut edge on styrene.  The build has already cost quite a bit and the thought of potentially throwing that money down the drain was what put me off.

I may yet revisit that decision depending upon how decent a job I can make of the side frames by myself.

[Spitfire2865]

Oh you intended to cut it in styrene? That would make sense then.

If I were doing it, Id get the sides cut in thin metal sheet. But if I were doing it, the entire chassis would be metal too, so I guess its not too applicable to your efforts.

Hope the superstructure goes together well.

[hendie]

the entire chassis is done in metal. It's all brass.  I just figured that the side frames and especially the roof, would be easier done in another material

[Spitfire2865]

So it is. My mistake. For some reason I thought you had made the frame out of styrene.

[hendie]

Another little update, and a little rant to start off with.

 

The cutting machine is extremely frustrating  I think the machine itself is sound, it's the software and drivers that are screwing things up.  For example, the main carriage windows are made up of 4 lines, and 4 radii (at the corners obviously).  You would think that the cutter would start at one point then cut all the way around the window. Nope!  It will cut two horizontal lines, followed by 2 radii, then two vertical lines, following up with the last two radii. So using that method, if there's any misalignment in the X, Y as it jumps form point to point will result in a mismatch in the profile. - It also screws up the blade alignment if it jumps from a straight line to a radius that has a start point in a different axis.

 

I've tried everything I can think of - creating a polyline, so the window is a single element and not 4 x Lines and 4 x Radii, but it doesn't make any difference as to how it cuts the window.... very frustrating.  There's nothing in the software I can change to modify that behavior so I'm pretty certain it's down to how the internal optimization is calculated..... very poorly in my opinion.

 

Which brings us to my latest update.... more of the same really.   I finally produced two side frames I think I can work with. The window corners will take a little bit of work, but I think I can overcome the issues described above.  Anyways.... side frames cut, then reinforced using "C" channel. This time I used the glue sparingly, and the outer face does not seem to have been affected.  I won't know for sure until I prime them though.

 

 

At last, we are finally starting to look like a carriage (of sorts)

 

 

I ca'd a bunch of 90° formers inside to hold the sides in the correct position while I work out what the hell I'm supposed to be doing.  The super glue will allow me to break the formers out when the time is right.  Still a lot of work to do before then though.

 

 

I remade the vestibule ends as the windows were slightly off center of the panel.  You can see I have also propped a door in there too - purely for my own visual gratification you understand.

Actually, this photo highlights one of the build issues I am going to have to overcome somehow. It's a nice feature of the Pullman's but it does add some complexity to the build.  If you look closely at the photo, you will see that the vestibule ends are inset slightly from the side frames.  Then to complicate matters further, the entrance doors are further inset from the vestibule ends. So I have all these returns in the bodywork, and just to add icing to the cake, they are not sharp corners. - They are all nicely radiused.

 

 

This photo illustrates the fact nicely  (I haven't even begun to think how I am going to manage those transfers and pinstriping 

(I'm not sure who the photo is credited to - if anyone knows, I can add the credits or remove the photo if preferred)

 

 

This angle shows more of what I'll be dealing with.  S'fun this modeling malarkey.. isn't it ?

 

 

Since I cut out the door, I'm now wondering if I should make the door and the door frame as one single panel - i.e. just scribe the door outline into a rectangular panel. Of course, that means I could never open the door. But since it's going to be a static model inside a display case... will the door ever be opened ?  I haven't figured out my final display preferences just quite yet.  (I think at least one door on each side will be opened)

 

So, vestibule ends remade, I am now adding the returns. A piece of scrap brass channel taped onto the end panel helps hold everything straight while I glue the return in place.

 

 

Of course, now that I have got that far with the vestibule end, I am now toying with the idea of making the darn thing out of brass      Well, aside from having to cut out the two windows, and the vestibule doorway, there's only 6 bends in the piece - yeah... right.... and every bend would have to be in the right location, all parallel to each other, and the entire vestibule end cut to length before I started as there's now way to easily trim it afterwards.  Insanity I tell you !!!

 

 

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

I drew my elements of the window in separate colours and then set the cut order of the colours. This should give you the control you require if using the silhouette machines. This information was originally from the silhouette thread on the forum.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[hendie]

Paul, thanks for your input.  I am using a KNK Zing Air and there are no such options unfortunately. For a $500 machine, the interface is rather poor and there is no way to force it to cut in a certain order.  The only real control being over the pressure, speed, and blade offset.

 

Some shapes it deals with perfectly fine but I am at a loss as to why  it found the relatively simple rectangle with rounded corners so difficult to cut accurately.  Still, I have what I need now and can get moving with the build.

 

once again - thanks for your input

[BlackRat]

With this breathtaking level of detail.......I'm wondering if your making a miniature loom to do the upholstery and carpets!

[hendie]

yeah, the soft furnishings are going to be problematic.   The carpet was custom made for the rebuild so I know I'm never going to find anything that's a perfect match, and the upholstery for the chairs was a blue and white pattern that will just be impossible to replicate in such a small scale.  Yet more bridges that will have to be crossed as this build slowly progresses.

[sir douglas]

Fantastic work Hendie, watching with interest

[hendie]

Quick question that hopefully someone can help me out with:

 

Is there a reference for the cream and brown that are used on UK Pullmans ?    I see that Humbrol do a Pullman Brown and Pullman Cream but I've been hearing really poor reviews of humbrol paints over the last few years.

Does anyone know if a decent substitute for these colors ?  (I'm based in the US so I normally use Testors or Model Master paints)

[Hilux5972]

Humbrol seems far to dark to me, definitely made to match Hornbys incorrect shade. I haven't managed to find a more correct shade but perhaps someone else will have.

[Marshall5]

Phoenix Precision Paints (from Fox Transfers etc.) do Pullman Cream and Umber as well as lining gold.  Railmatch paints (from Howes Models) also do umber and cream item # 324 & 325.  I've used the enamel paint from both manufacturers and reckon that Railmatch have the edge over the current Precision product.  BTW you can no longer send model paint in the U.K. mail - you'd have to use a courier. Hope this helps.

Ray.

[Andrew F]

Aw, this is ace. Some proper modelling. I've built this coach in 00 scale from a Hornby model...crude but interesting in research. Will you be modelling the '50's bar or the refurbished interior?

[hendie]

...  BTW you can no longer send model paint in the U.K. mail - you'd have to use a courier.

 

I just checked the websites and neither of those companies will ship overseas either. 

Pheonix are out of stock of both Pullman colors, and Howes will not accept an order from overseas.  So much for the global economy and the 21st Century

 

I was hoping that one of the major manufacturers had a standard color that was at least close to what I needed but it appears not. It's looking like I'll need to call on family favors back in the UK just to get hold of a few ml's of paint

 

 

Aw, this is ace. Some proper modelling. I've built this coach in 00 scale from a Hornby model...crude but interesting in research. Will you be modelling the '50's bar or the refurbished interior?

 

Thanks Andrew.  I'll be modelling the refurbished interior as that is the project I was involved in

[hendie]

Another question, this time concerning the buffers.  In all my notes and drawings I omitted to mark the length of the buffers from the chassis.

I've found reference on other posts that in use, the gangway formed the "main" buffer, and the side buffers were retracted in use.  Does this mean that as long as the side buffers do not extend past the diaphragm plate, I'll be okay ?

Or, since this is a static model, should the buffers extend past the diaphragm plate, and if so, by how much ?

[Hilux5972]

Looking at this pic of Pecorama's Orion 1951 Pullman, the buffers should be level with the buffing plate.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Hilux5972

[hendie]

great information - thanks

[hendie]

A quick update - mostly experimentation though - nothing certain at this point.

 

However, first up is certain - the primer is on the side frames ! w00t !   You can see how the two frames on the left compare to the one on the right in terms of sink marks.  There's hardly any visible.  It's almost certain that some will show up with a gloss coat on there but I'm pretty pleased with how it's going at the moment.  The window openings need a little bit more work but I'll get there.  At least these guys are usable.

 

 

I was pleased at how the radius on the returns at the frame ends turned out.  I can see that a little filler is needed here and there, and a little more sanding, but overall, it's moving forward.

 

 

Now for the experiment...  My earlier attempts using yer akchul mahogany didn't turn out too well.  This time I went for basswood (which I believe is similar to balsa.)  Here, I just took a couple of scraps and threw some brown shoe polish on them.  The effect isn't displeasing.

 

 

The nice thing is that when they're buffed up they get a nice sheen to them which I think will suit the interior.  The downside is that it's very unlikely I will be able to get anything to stick to them since this is a wax finish.  I'm going to investigate stain and a satin clear coat before making any rash decisions.  The grain is still a little bit on the large side, but I think this will be acceptable once everything is in place inside the coach.

 

 

My next experiment was chair making.... there's going to be lots of these in this coach.

Starting off with a couple of pieces of plastic card, and a dod of milliput....

 

 

Then sometime later we have the beginnings of a chair.

 

 

Followed up with some refinement (and I use the term very loosely !)

 

 

I'm almost pleased with the seat, but I think I can do better.  I have a few ideas I'd like to try out to get the correct shape of the curves and seams.  (not sure what the correct term is for furniture type geometry)

Since most a lot of the interior will be taken up with these blighters, I want to make sure I have a master that I am completely happy with before I go casting a dozen or so of them.

[Hilux5972]

That looks fantastic.