monkeysarefun Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Evening Folks, May I pick your brains - I've just purchased a Photon and I'm having problems with printing. Using Anycubic grey resin, I can manage to print at 100 microns, but obviously at the expense of finer detail. My prints fail after a beep from the machine, then the x-axis stops moving but the machine seems to still be going through the motions of reading from the memory stick. I'm wondering what settings people are using, as I've seen some cracking prints on this site, so fine detail looks achievable... Thanks, Gaz. If you are using the supplied (dodgy) USB stick, first thing would be to try a decent 4 or 8GB stick. As for resin settings, I'v bought some of the grey as a change from using the original translucent green that came with the printer but have not yet found a setting that I'm fully happy with. The details on the prints seem a little 'flatter' and not as sharp as they did in the green. Not sure if its the settings not quite right or whether its the nature of the resin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 I currently lack the experience to give advice on settings, however the 2mm E2 prints are either grey or a mix of grey and green. USB stick is standard. What is wrong with the USB? Unless these lines are from it I can't see any issue thus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysarefun Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 The stick is a no-name cheap brand and seems to be the cause of a good deal of issues posted in the Photon user group page. My stick had issues - the print would start, progress bar would jump instantly to 16%, print head would sink into the vat and give three beeps and sit there for a few minutes then printer would say that the print was finished, even though it had done nothing. A Lexar USB stick I now use has fixed the issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin1985 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 (edited) I've barely had the chance to use my Photon since getting it a few weeks ago, but the Facebook group posts have been trickling through my feed. A few thoughts informed by what I've read/seen, more so than practical experience, so far: "Perfect" looking prints on Photon seem be (almost) exclusively more "organic" shapes and compound curves. Any printing method that relies on layers will inevitably have SOME form of stepping - the question is whether its visible or not. Solid flat sides of any object will inevitably make any stepping that there is more obvious. The large flat sides of your tank are surely one of the most challenging types of thing to 3D print. (whereas a wargames figure with no significant flat faces is much easier to make "perfectly"). Some thoughts on further tweaks though: I've seen some suggestions of introducing a slight X axis rotation, as well as the c.20-40 degree Z rotation you've been using. Have you tried that? In the same way that the Z rotation minimises the "pull" forces on each layer, doing the same on the X axis will help too - logically. It seems to all be about minimising the overlap between layers. Useful guide here: https://support.formlabs.com/s/article/Model-Orientation?language=en_US Depending on angle, it might mean you'll have to attach some supports to an external face, but if you're having to tidy/sand anyway ... Entirely subjective - but I've got the vague feeling that prints in translucent materials (like the Anycubic stock green) SEEM to give less impression of stepping than opaque materials like grey (my second bottle was opaque white). I don't know if this is because the translucence allows a fraction of UV light bleed back into the previous layer, marginally curing extra in any steps at the edge of the layers? I'm not sure if this is true - just a hunch. More generally though, I would have thought the best way forward for something like the E2 would be to clean up one of your best prints and use it as a master for more traditional resin casting (would need a two part mould). I think the Shapeways "store" format has programmed us to think of 3D printing as a "production" method, when its still fundamentally a "prototyping" method. Put the effort into getting one model perfect through a combination of printing and manual tidying, then put that effort "in the bank" by making a mould, rather than enduring the grief of trying to replicate that perfect finish each time! I think casting resin also tends to be a bit less brittle? Just some thoughts Justin --------- Edit: Just to add, TomE's 2mm Pal Van print here is was at 20 degrees up at one end with an extra 10 degree rotation through the length of the wagon. It looks like a lot less stepping on the flat sides of the van there. Edited December 8, 2018 by justin1985 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) Hello Justin, firstly may I apologies for leaving it so long to reply. I'm sorry if it seems I was being ignorant, especially after such a long reply. I remember reading it, thinking I'd reply later when on PC (rather than 'phone) then forgetting. I have tried many different settings and currently I'm thinking you are right in that large flat surfaces likely will have the odd line or two regardless, after printing an Abe from Abe's Odyssey/Exodus with no lines it seems so. I've printed these things at many different settings and angles with varying results. Most of them have been very good but with the odd line that I want to remove. Currently, until further notice it is something I think we'll have to accept. They don't take that long to smooth out at all but that's beside the point, want perfection! With moulding and casting, interestingly for many years this was my plan but since doing 3D printing it's for me currently the most viable option, partly because I lack room to store moulds. That may seem silly to say but if you saw where I lived and the room I have/haven't then it'd be clearer. With 3D printing you don't need mould storage which is a great boon! I'll continue to print and try to improve things and update as needed. ------ With my effort to reduce the high (and recent alarming hikes) costs of the Shapeways prints we're now at the point where I'm ready to offer a few SCC items directly from the Photon printer. The range from here will be expanded incrementally at a pace aligned with the setting experiments until I am happy the prints are turning out as good as they can be, any found improvements will be implemented of course. For now we are starting off with just a few but if you have any specific requests or order of things let us know as it helps gauge interest. The 4mm E2's will be the next Photon release as I'm a gnats fart away from getting things optimized and ready. Short answer... New prices for first items are as follows: L&YR Class 28 (& Mogul Experiment) All 4mm verisons are £45 or £40 with supports, compared to Shapeways £97 or so for the same sort of resin material and quality, also Shapeways WSF is about £47 too so I now offer the cheapest option for a better quality. New pricing for the N Gauge E2 bodies is £22 or £20 with supports compared to Shapeways £32-38 version! More range coming incrementally. Feel free to post suggestions, questions or to explain what items you'd like to see made available from the Photon. Edited January 4, 2019 by Knuckles 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Just a quick heads up, if anyone has been hovering around a particular item on the SCC shop but are put off by the price, if you are wanting something cheaper on the Photon let me know and rather than just waiting until I say "Ok this is printable now for this price" make it known what you intend to obtain (no time wasters though, only if you are genuine in intent to buy)and I can start start doing prints to get them printable then. Basically I'm asking for some direction on where interests are so work order can be prioritized. The 4mm E2's are now ready too. Edited January 16, 2019 by Knuckles 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Very good and informative video showing what you and your Photon can do. For 2mm scale this really looks a neat way of doing stuff, as the print times and amount of resin seem eminently doable compared to 4mm where it's a lot more onerous, getting through resin rather too fast. I wish you success with this direct venture! Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Thanks Jon, the 2mm stuff is easier in that regard yeah, 3mm even. My main concern for the 4mm stuff is getting the prices down as Shapeways have recently upped their FUD/FXD prices for a lot of things and I was never that happy with the pricing in the first place. I think Shapeways have been seriously taking the biscuit too much lately. To make comparison compare this newer version of the L&YR Class 28 (657 batch) in FUD/SFDP of around £95 (used to be in the 70's) https://www.shapeways.com/product/Z7U5V2AWL/l-yr-class-28-657-fud?optionId=72416125 To the version done directly and at £40-45 (customers choice on support removal) it makes sense. I want to get the majority of things done here instead of there although I could do with collective input on where to put efforts to make it happen. I go through a lot of resin, alcohol and time repeating prints with different settings trying to get the best outcome. It costs me a lot of time and money to do it so finding what people care about, want or don't helps prioritize. The E2's so far take the longest typically around 8 hours to print, that's without set up and post processing time, went through 8 of them before I was happy it was good enough to release for sale! Not the best picture due to lighting and non suitable backgrounds but it'll do for now. Edited January 16, 2019 by Knuckles 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) I like the sprue with the detail bits. I need to try something like that for my coach underframes - buffers, well those at the end nearest the build plate are coming out squashed, Plus I'm realising things like battery boxes seem to vary between each coach type whereas much of the underframe is standard. So a frame with the standard bits fixed and the variable bits added on I think is easier. More on this soon hopefully in my coach thread. Repeatability is a big issue and good that you raise in case anyone thinks it's easy. Recently several failed prints I've scratched my head and wondered why. I am slowly learning to change one variable at a time to see what works and what doesn't. Current eureka moment being looking at the FEP and thinking "that looks cloudy I wonder if that's why the print failed" - the base layer having had a good long exposure blast having been fine but the supports in the central section of print (and worn bit of FEP) not printing. Fingers crossed, I'll find out in an hour or so! Edited January 16, 2019 by The Great Bear 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JCL Posted January 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2019 Hi there, I know it takes a lot of effort to get everything up and running correctly, but once you've done that, hopefully everything will stay fairly constant. Although I've a different make and model of printer, I've spent quite a bit of time setting everything up, and it's fair to say that my first 2 bottles of resin have been used on getting the process sorted within which I've managed to get a few decent models that I can use. My only issue now is a weird stretching on a model, but that's probably more to do with the stl file than anything. I've used a few programs to check the model files, and each one has a different level of interaction. At the moment I'm looking at 3D Builder that comes free with Windows 10 which has model repair functionality. I think you're doing a great job there Knuckles, though you might want to let the folks know the alcohol isn't medicinal 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted January 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2019 Hi Knuckles, looks like a big improvement, and the price difference is impressive. It costs me a lot of time and money to do it so finding what people care about, want or don't helps prioritize. For what it's worth, the three things I would be interested in is (1) smooth finish, (2) smooth finish (sic), and (3) fits a good quality RTR chassis. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) ...Repeatability is a big issue and good that you raise in case anyone thinks it's easy. Recently several failed prints I've scratched my head and wondered why. I am slowly learning to change one variable at a time to see what works and what doesn't. Current eureka moment being looking at the FEP and thinking "that looks cloudy I wonder if that's why the print failed" - the base layer having had a good long exposure blast having been fine but the supports in the central section of print (and worn bit of FEP) not printing. Fingers crossed, I'll find out in an hour or so! Yeah, once you got the settings good it's usually a repeatable result, problem is it is costing a lot of money, time, resin, alcohol in failed prints finding these settings! Gotta be done though. I'm on my 2nd FEP as the 1st one I knackered after only 1 or 2 prints by placing it on something half spikey by accident. I'm getting way more prints out of it than I thought based on what some in the FB group said, then again I do some prints towards the edge more to not hammer the same part of the sheet so much. How did yours turn out? Hi there, I know it takes a lot of effort to get everything up and running correctly, but once you've done that, hopefully everything will stay fairly constant. Although I've a different make and model of printer, I've spent quite a bit of time setting everything up, and it's fair to say that my first 2 bottles of resin have been used on getting the process sorted within which I've managed to get a few decent models that I can use. I think you're doing a great job there Knuckles, though you might want to let the folks know the alcohol isn't medicinal Thanks, I'm almost through 2 liters of resin already. :-/ I hear you. Can't say I'm getting model stretching though, no idea what to say about that. Haven't gave the windows program much time to work out to be honest; haven't felt the need yet. As to the medicine - I haven't tried it yet! Hi Knuckles, looks like a big improvement, and the price difference is impressive. For what it's worth, the three things I would be interested in is (1) smooth finish, (2) smooth finish (sic), and (3) fits a good quality RTR chassis. Thanks, with 1 & 2 I can say that apart from some of those lines that on big flat tank sides the model is very smooth, required much less smoothing than Shapeways FUD & FXD in most areas. Some areas are good straight after a blast of primer, others need a tweak. With #3 It isn't something I have been looking into apart from the A0 series and likely won't. It was suggested to me before to find RTR chassis that can fit the bodies or design them thus yet it is something I do not want to do (apart from special exceptions) because... 1) It assumes people have the correct RTR chassis to begin with and if not buy it 2) It assumes they will have to want to use that chassis or go out and buy it 3) It requires many compromises in the bodies to fit thus making the bodies less accurate, especially if wheelbases need to be altered - not my goal or idea of fidelity. I'm cool people hacking up a body or RTR chassis to mash them together, I know a few who have done so and this will always be an option but for the reasons above I decided to create a chassis kit for each loco designed so that it fits and doesn't have to reduce body details. Can't please everyone! Edited January 17, 2019 by Knuckles 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) Been having a good look at the pricing structure for the Photon 3D prints for the SCC range and embarked on dropping prices further and getting some consistency. This is as cheap as I can realistically get them. Things will be expanded and updated as time goes on. For now... EDIT, List removed, see below. Edited January 21, 2019 by Knuckles 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NeilHB Posted January 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2019 Gavin, the home printed stuff is looking excellent - really great definition on them! Are you considering printing any of the 7mm scale items please? Would definitely be interested in buying direct from you, as Shapeways prices for the high quality items are just downright scary at the best of times! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) I'd like to but the print bed is only 3" x 5.25" x the height of the Z stack (can't remember off my head) So the items to print on it will have to fit. Certain detail items such as chimneys and cabs are doable though, just not loco's. Any use? Edited January 17, 2019 by Knuckles 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NeilHB Posted January 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2019 I'd like to but the print bed is only 3" x 5.25" x the height of the Z stack (can't remember off my head) So the items to print on it will have to fit. Certain detail items such as chimneys and cabs are doable though, just not loco's. I'd like to but the print bed is only 3" x 5.25" x the height of the Z stack (can't remember off my head) So the items to print on it will have to fit. Certain detail items such as chimneys and cabs are doable though, just not loco's. Ah ok, that’s fair enough. Thanks for letting me know. Shall keep saving for Shapeways so I can get the J1 sorted! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 If I in the future buy another printer with a bigger bed then by all means. For now though, can't do much about the bigger scales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) Been having a good look at the pricing structure for the Photon 3D prints for the SCC range and embarked on dropping prices further and getting some consistency. This is as cheap as I can realistically get them. Things will be expanded and updated as time goes on. For now... Good stuff. Just plugged one of my 4mm coaches into Shapeways, £67 in Versatile Plastic, £123 in Fine Detail Plastic. Not a million miles from what you're quoting for the E2 via them then interested to see what you can do in resin. Food for thought for me, just need to get things consistently working... Edited January 17, 2019 by The Great Bear 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Yeah, once you got the settings good it's usually a repeatable result, problem is it is costing a lot of money, time, resin, alcohol in failed prints finding these settings! Gotta be done though. I'm on my 2nd FEP as the 1st one I knackered after only 1 or 2 prints by placing it on something half spikey by accident. I'm getting way more prints out of it than I thought based on what some in the FB group said, then again I do some prints towards the edge more to not hammer the same part of the sheet so much. How did yours turn out? I think in three months I'm just on to my fifth one. The first one with machine lasted well, at least a month then puctured it. First replacement one I got was too thin and only lasted a week or so. Now using a thicker sheet (bear in mind my Shuffle XL has 8.9" screen so bigger vat) of 200 microns, nice and sturdy at the expense perhaps of the very last bit of resolution. The most recent change of film was prompted by it having become too cloudy and causing failed prints. Before that it had puctured either due to my stupidity or once during a print, when the FEP was at the end of its life. Moving forward I am going to try and be a bit more careful when cleaning out the vat in future, see if more care gets better life. I don't even want to think about how much resin I've gotten through As they say, you learn by your mistakes...well, hopefully, as long as you stop and think! (Still trying to get the hang of this one!) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flubrush Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) I think in three months I'm just on to my fifth one. The first one with machine lasted well, at least a month then puctured it. First replacement one I got was too thin and only lasted a week or so. Now using a thicker sheet (bear in mind my Shuffle XL has 8.9" screen so bigger vat) of 200 microns, nice and sturdy at the expense perhaps of the very last bit of resolution. The most recent change of film was prompted by it having become too cloudy and causing failed prints. Before that it had puctured either due to my stupidity or once during a print, when the FEP was at the end of its life. Moving forward I am going to try and be a bit more careful when cleaning out the vat in future, see if more care gets better life. I've just got hold of a smaller Shuffle and I only emptied the resin tank once and cleaned it out - too much hassle. :-) I read on the Facebook groups that the resin could be left in the tank for weeks or even months, so I have been leaving the tank covered between prints and topping the resin up as required. The resin does settle in the tank after a day or two but I can mix it again just by taking the tank off and rolling it around for a minute or two. You can see if the resin has separated and I keep rolling until it looks mixed again. I haven't used as much resin as you lot - I have to get my brain around Fusion 360 to get more files generated. :-) But I've got some springs and axleboxes done and I'm working on a Fox bogie side at the moment. I'm on my fourth test on that at the moment to get the best orientation. One thing I do notice is that I can detect a slight layering on some faces of a printed part but when I give give it a light coat of thinner, the layering pretty well disappears. Some S scale and 1:32 scale Caledonian axleboxes and springs. The lettering is mirrored - finding out the hard way that Chitubox does this by default. I've now found the setting and changed it. :-) Caledonain buffers in S scale Trying out different orientations on 1:32 scale Caledonian springs. Jim. Edited January 17, 2019 by flubrush 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysarefun Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 I've personally found the FEP to be quite forgiving, I'm still on my first one despite it being pretty cloudy. In fact it seems to have an amount of self-healing, I put 5 or so deep dimples in it with the corner of the plastic spatula while trying to get some stuck bits off it. I assumed it would need changing but thought I'd give it one more go. After that print had finished I found the dimples had vanished. I"m guessing the high temps ( either from the printing process or this nuts summer we are having - it was 48 degrees in my shed yesterday) had shrunk them away. I've found to avoid failed prints I re-level after every couple of prints. I think that the way I hold the plate while levering off the prints sometimes puts pressure on the swivel joint enough to cause it to move slighty, throwing out the level. I use the Flint Read or whatever his name is method and that always works for me. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) Hmm, now I levelled a few times when first getting used to the printer but since then I have done around 30 prints trying to get these optimal settings and have not yet needed to re-level. Paper out not in method. Edited January 19, 2019 by Knuckles 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Spent a good while on this comparing prices and doing some test prints and slicing.EDIT: New List...Also apologies for just annoyingly plastering it publicly taking up all the space but I do not know any other way, how to create download links etc. I'll happily email you a PDF though. EDIT: Thanks to Keith found a way... https://www.scalefour.org/forum/download/file.php?id=19320 Edited January 22, 2019 by Knuckles 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2019 I will need to sit down and work out what I actually need. I am still a good way off actually making locos but why not get them now? Do I PM you when I have decided? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Send email to sparkshot082@gmail.com please. I prefer to do everything through there for archiving and file sharing. Edited January 21, 2019 by Knuckles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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