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How's Your Limby ?


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BTW I actually quite like the BRCW 26,27,33 models from Lima. How could one describe them... a blank canvas perhaps? They are an excellent way to build up the skills and confidence before tackling a larger project and you would be surprised what can be done with them. (he says...)

Indeed, looking at the 33 today reminds me of of when I used a Triang Princess as a detailing, repainting and lining exercise 25 years ago before tackling white metal kits to build an Adams Radial and P2.

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Well, have caught up with the replies, thanks all, and so it's not just me ! Guess I'm not alone in wanting to just run trains reliably without bits dropping off and not paying a fortune for the pleasure of it.

Looking at Hornby's current range, I do feel priced out nowadays for new stuff and would like to see a return to a range for people who want to run trains, not look at them in a case after spending x amount of silly money. Guess that is what the Railroad range was originally meant to be but why do I still feel it too expensive ??

Should we separate ourselves into model railway runners and model railway displayers ??

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Paul

I don't think we need to separate into anything. For my part at the moment all I am doing is building micro-planks of perhaps 2ft sq and so I would not consider myself a "runner", but that does not stop me taking an interest in seeing people running full length expresses around ovals of track. Likewise I know there are people that have the reverse view. But I do understand what you mean and there are a full range of different approaches to this hobby.

 

John

I'm not quite sure how to take your post, whether you are agreeing with me or mocking my comment. I have the 33 sitting on my filing cabinet testing different paint strippers (it was in that era where only high explosives would remove Lima paint). As I have all the bits for it from Shawplan (each stage I am doing on my 47 that I am not certain on I test on the 33 first) I may eventually finish it and then we'll see what can be done with it. Mind you, the Sun is going supernova in 6 billion years so I'm not sure whether it will be done in time or not.

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There is really no excuse for poor running qualities. A model may be built down to a cost and be very basic in terms of detail and fidelity to prototype (perhaps as a starter train set type model) but it should still run well.

 

The Hornby Railroad range has became a little confused yet it does fill an important niche. The range seems to be split into a couple of tiers. There are the obviously very low end toy like models engineered for simplicity, low cost and play appeal but then there are newly tooled models that are very good scale models of a quality which is sufficient for many modellers. For example the Hall, P2, A1 and Crosti 9F. Some of the latter are not that cheap however they're still significantly cheaper than if the models had been made to full fat standards and the Railroad P2 and Hall offer corking value for money IMO. The former Lima tooling crosses the boundaries I think, the Deltic is firmly in the toy like camp, I'm not a fan of their old Warship either, however other ex-Lima tooling like the 47, 73, 66, 67 still holds up very well. I think the hobby would be poorer without these models. And the Limby 87 is still the only RTR 87, what is more sad is that in some respects the recent Heljan 86 was really no better than the old Hornby model. Some of the details on the Heljan 86 were beautiful but in terms of overall shape and impression I really found it no better than the ancient Hornby offering.

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If this isn't going off topic, why is it that there are so many dimensional anomalies with the latest LASER scanned models where as a previous generation of model designers could get it right using photographs, tape measures and engineering blueprints?

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John

I'm not quite sure how to take your post, whether you are agreeing with me or mocking my comment. I have the 33 sitting on my filing cabinet testing different paint strippers (it was in that era where only high explosives would remove Lima paint). As I have all the bits for it from Shawplan (each stage I am doing on my 47 that I am not certain on I test on the 33 first) I may eventually finish it and then we'll see what can be done with it. Mind you, the Sun is going supernova in 6 billion years so I'm not sure whether it will be done in time or not.

Hi Derek

Put simply, if I was younger and starting in the hobby today, the 33 would probably be the first model I would attempt to enhance just as the princess (or Hornby Dublo class 20, or Triang A3 or Triang class 37 etc) was back more than a quarter of a century ago. These days I am edging more to doing things from scratch like stripping down and cutting up two modern class 08 chassis to make a fell diesel locomotive (an 8 coupled diesel). You don't attempt things like that without cutting your modelling teeth on easier/cheaper projects first.

Edited by JSpencer
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I'll have you know I was a member of the Lima collectors society....!

 

I actually think they can be made to look good, but I never encountered one that ran well in 6 years of collecting them ( I went through about 35) which is a shame. So in actual fact that's probably why they appealed to collectors so much as the myriad of liveries coming out pretty much satisfied any need.

 

For my purposes, I make shunting planks so when I got my first Heljan 47 in 2001 it was a revelation . A mis proportioned revelation but it's performance made up for its looks I guess

Edited by rob D2
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John

 

I will be very interested (as will several others I suspect) to see what you come up with for a Fell.

 

Given how odd (and yet inventive) the Fell was I am surprised that no one has built a kit for it.

I am moving home between now and July which has put most projects on hold. But I have materials gathered and hope to start a blog/thread in the second half of 2016. In the meanwhile, I have to think about the body. Whether to take parts from a Triang 37 or simply build the lot from scratch. I think the chassis will actually be the easiest part!

A1 did an etched kit but I cannot remember seeing anyone complete one.

Once done GT3 is next. I have the golden arrow kit, but missing are decent side rods that I will machine.

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Another Lima fan here.

The lads at Emgauge70s, Jim Smith-Wright's BNS fleet can show what can be done as well as the Mostyn class 40 fleet.

Top quality tooling for these with some relatively trivial errors most of which can be addressed with add ons. Class 31 (well class 30 really) 37( tumble home already mentioned) 40 (windscreens and nose too vertical) 47(windscreen issues) HST, 73 and 101 DMU. Repowering with various RTR chassis is very easy (Bachmann 40 chassis of both generations are almost are perfect fit). I have many of these projects ongoing, and upgrading them is real fun.

Neil

Edited by Downendian
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I'll have you know I was a member of the Lima collectors society....!

I actually think they can be made to look good, but I never encountered one that ran well in 6 years of collecting them ( I went through about 35) which is a shame. So in actual fact that's probably why they appealed to collectors so much as the myriad of liveries coming out pretty much satisfied any need.

For my purposes, I make shunting planks so when I got my first Heljan 47 in 2001 it was a revelation . A mis proportioned revelation but it's performance made up for its looks I guess

Strange . I've never had one that did not run well. From my 1978 class 09 that crawls very sweetly through to 37 and HST. All run very well. Not as silky smooth maybe and they can make a racket , but I think there's still a market for them compared to high cost recent models. I'd love to have a Limby Virgin East Coast set for instance compared to £210+ for 2 power cars

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 ...Guess I'm not alone in wanting to just run trains reliably without bits dropping off and not paying a fortune for the pleasure of it.

Looking at Hornby's current range, I do feel priced out nowadays for new stuff and would like to see a return to a range for people who want to run trains...

 This I feel depends on what you want, and what priorities you have. I do my railway modelling on a beer budget. There's £N to spend per annum. If that once would have covered a purchase of 30 items, and there were 30 items that were sensible purchases for my modelling interest, then they got bought and operated. Some years I didn't spend the budget, there wasn't enough brought to market! Maybe that £N will now only cover 10 items, thanks to rising prices. If they are good models for my modelling interest they will get bought and operated. I can have a lot more fun with a model on the layout, then the credit in the bank account.

 

Price per item is nevertheless a consideration: couldn't bring myself to purchase Heljan's Brush 4 or Hornbys Brush 2, or the Hornby Gresley gangwayed coaches, all relatively expensive at time of release. Simply not good enough in appearance, there were and are cheaper alternatives of better appearance despite the undoubtedly good elements in all these models.

 

If this isn't going off topic, why is it that there are so many dimensional anomalies with the latest LASER scanned models where as a previous generation of model designers could get it right using photographs, tape measures and engineering blueprints?

 Are there? The models I mention as unsatisfactory above were all done without benefit of laser scan I believe. The NRM DP1 on the other hand was, and looks spectacularly successful to me. That question would need a systematic survey of laser scanned vs hand measured model toolings to arrive at a reliable answer.

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This thread is (mostly) quite refreshing. It's nice to know that there are still plenty of people out there who are enjoying their railway modelling without the need for absolute accuracy or to spend a fortune. It does come across as slightly apologetic though which is totally unnecessary.

I think most of us probably have a mix of old and new and I still enjoy the Limby items I still have. I don't have any Lima locos left any more but I've been updating/detailing a few items of Lima rolling stock recently and I've found this to be one of the most enjoyable and rewarding things I've done for quite some time. They're still not perfect and not even that cheap by the time you've bought wheels, transfers etc but the end product is unique.

 

As well as those already mentioned, Jim SW still has plenty of modified Lima/Limby models on his Birmingham New Street, Tonbridge West Yard still does and, until relatively recently, one of my favourites, Pengwynn Crossing had a fair amount of Lima stock too.

 

So stop hiding under a rock and let's see some pics of what people are still running. It's all railway modelling which is what this forum is supposed to be about. 

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If this isn't going off topic, why is it that there are so many dimensional anomalies with the latest LASER scanned models where as a previous generation of model designers could get it right using photographs, tape measures and engineering blueprints?

One thing to remember is that a 3D scan doesn't produce a finished 3d mesh straight out of the box, but produces a point cloud that requires a level of intervention to get it to an acceptable mesh. In doing so, you could end up with some compromises compared to the prototype if you aren't careful. Also, a laser scanned example is most accurate to the particular prototype scanned which might not be typical of the class as a whole.

 

Of course, sometimes the plans that we're comparing these models to may not in fact be accurate to what was actually built in practice, including post build modifications...

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Chris

 

Is Pengwynn Crossing still on the exhibition circuit?

Last I heard it was under new ownership. Even though it is getting on a bit, it still seems to be one of those timeless classics.

Yes, owned by Bentley MRG and still on the circuit. The Lima locos on it were well weathered etc, the Telecom DMU was hand painted I believe and were excellent in their day although the last time I operated it 5 years ago the stock needed a lot of running repairs.

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Pengwynn Crossing has always been one of my favourite layouts. The last time I saw it was about a year ago at one of the Bentley club's shows but unfortunately it was being operated with very little stock. A couple of DMUs, 2 rakes of clay hoods and a couple of class 25s and very little else if I remember correctly. I thought this was a terrible shame as, despite its age, a lot of that old stock was superb.

Edited by ChrisB
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Pengwynn Crossing has always been one of my favourite layouts. The last time I saw it was about a year ago at one of the Bentley club's shows but unfortunately it was being operated with very little stock. A couple of DMUs, 2 rakes of clay hoods and a couple of class 25s and very little else if I remember correctly. I thought this was a terrible shame as, despite its age, a lot of that old stock was superb.

 

Interesting observation - sounds as though it was being operated somewhat prototypically, i.e with sparser traffic, which was a negative!  I get the logic, incidentally, but it is fascinating!

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Hi Derek et al,

 

Here is a former tatty Dublo 3-rail class 20 I converted to 2-rail and tarted up and re painted to rail freight some 20+ years ago:

 

I can easily imagine the things we can do with a Lima model.

 

post-15098-0-75087500-1452935650_thumb.jpg

 

post-15098-0-28132300-1452935667_thumb.jpg

 

post-15098-0-51036100-1452935696_thumb.jpg

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To me the Limby thing is not a case of either/or but both. I think it is perfectly reasonable to support both lower cost railroad style models and also super detailed alternatives.

There are some modellers who will pay whatever is necessary to have the finest model which can be produced using known technology, there are others that want a cheap model that looks like the prototype to run on a layout. I really don't think either position is any more or less right or wrong than the other. And I'd venture that most of us are somewhere between. So I do want fine detail and fine finish on my models but I am also happy to accept good looking models that lose some of the refinery in return for lower prices. Personally I have places for both camps in my collection. The key is value for money, value for money does not mean cheap as an expensive model may be considered to offer good value because of its features. Equally a nice solid but basic model can also offer good value for money. As they say, horses for courses. I have quite a collection of Japanese and Korean brass US and Japanese outline models which make the new Drax biomass wagon look bargain basement, I also have a few Hornby railroad models and love them too, with a lot in between. I really see no contradiction in that.

Something that I do feel strongly about which is that a good model does not suddenly stop being a good model just because somebody brings out a better model. There are models which are replaced and that I'd never return to, but that is not because they suddenly stopped being a good model but because they never were good models (eg. the Limby Deltic). If I look at the Bachmann Class 43 I have it is a wonderful model, absolutely beautiful, but I have no plans to get rid of my Bachmann Class 42's as despite their new Warship being a cracking model the older tooling was always (and remains) a very good model.

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