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12 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

And, here is an LMS (at least a few survived long enough) small black, which proves my contention https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LNWR_engine_No.808,_0-6-0ST.jpg

 

 

 

Almost a Pannier!  Wouldn't it have been odd it the LMS had developed Panniers as well as having Churchward-like tapered boilers for its tender engines!

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
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Arguably the Pratchett novels had long since become increasingly dark, so, I suppose it depends how you define "late books" in a series that ran from 1987 to 2015.

 

Night Watch (2002) is often cited as a definite shift in that direction. Night Watch is a great book nonetheless, and it's a little less than three quarters through the series.

 

I am not sure I'd agree that the late novels (wherever we consider "late" to start) have too much anger in them.  The impression I received was Pratchett moving beyond the glib and ironical treatment of death and destruction seen in the earlier novels in favour of wrestling with the additional complexities that his evolving world threw up.  Nevertheless, he does so with the same tolerance for human frailty  that runs through all his work. His evident humanity, rare in a satirist (and I can really only think of Fielding as comparable in that regard), shines through his work to the end. Optimism and redemption remained constant.

 

I think you can detect something off a falling off from peak-Pratchett in places - but people are sensitive to that in any long-running series and especially in the case of an author who has disclosed he has Alzheimer's and the critique is easily overdone - but nothing that impaired my enjoyment and there was always much to enjoy.  Moist and Adora Belle were brilliant late-flowering characters. Discworld never went stale in my view.   

 

There is not, I think, much sadness or depression affecting Pratchett's late books.  His goodbye is deftly done with much poignancy in Shepherd's Crown and I think he wrote brilliantly to the end.  

 

I do not think there is a single book in the series that I wouldn't/haven't re-read with much pleasure. 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
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23 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Arguably the Pratchett novels had long since become increasingly dark, so, I suppose it depends how you define "late books" in a series that ran from 1987 to 2015.

 

Night Watch (2002) is often cited as a definite shift in that direction. Night Watch is a great book nonetheless, and it's a little less than three quarters through the series.

 

I am not sure I'd agree that the late novels (wherever we consider "late" to start) have too much anger in them.  The impression I received was Pratchett moving beyond the glib and ironical treatment of death and destruction seen in the earlier novels in favour of wrestling with the additional complexities that his evolving world threw up.  Nevertheless, he does so with the same tolerance for human frailty  that runs through all his work. His evident humanity, rare in a satirist (and I can really only think of Fielding as comparable in that regard), shines through his work to the end. Optimism and redemption remained constant.

 

I think you can detect something off a falling off from peak-Pratchett in places - but people are sensitive to that in any long-running series and especially in the case of an author who has disclosed he has Alzheimer's and the critique is easily overdone - but nothing that impaired my enjoyment and there was always much to enjoy.  Moist and Adora Belle were brilliant late-flowering characters. Discworld never went stale in my view.   

 

There is not, I think, much sadness or depression affecting Pratchett's late books.  His goodbye is deftly done with much poignancy in Shepherd's Crown and I think he wrote brilliantly to the end.  

 

I do not think there is a single book in the series that I wouldn't/haven't re-read with much pleasure. 

Course, you do get the odd outlier anyway. Pyramids is really quite dark, especially for the early series.

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I was going to suggest somewhere around monstrous regiment as the turning point, but that's pretty close to your night watch theory. Although I do enjoy going postal and the moist stories, unseen academicals is probably my least favourite and raising steam follows pretty close afterwards. The tiffany aching series somehow never grabbed me like the other character arcs (I know it was aimed at younger readers).

However I'm not sure I'd ascribe the change, such as it is, to his condition so much as perhaps just getting older and grumpier (less patient might be a better way of putting that), which is not uncommon. Certainly to me there seems a shift from a charitable poking fun at human frailties in most of the books towards some pretty heavy pillorying of those the author disagreed with nearer the end, with the "villains" seemingly less sympathetically treated and having fewer redeeming qualities.

Having said all that, his output was prodigious - I discovered discworld at the age of 12 or so (94) and bought every book as they came out from then on, plus catching up on previous works. Turning out a book or two each year for so long without many obvious duds is very good going for any author, so it does seem a little churlish to be too disappointed in the final few books.

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2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Morning All,

 

High time, I think, to break out the accordions and get those shoulders shrugging...

 

 

You can shoot the pianist but you should always shoot the accordion.

 

I take it that's a couple of tricoloures hanging over the backscene?

Edited by Compound2632
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25 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

You can shoot the pianist but you should always shoot the accordion.

I beg to differ! You can't have a ceilidh without at least one accordion player! (and a fiddle player !) 

 

Jim 

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2 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

I beg to differ! You can't have a ceilidh without at least one accordion player! (and a fiddle player !) 

 

Jim 

All round Scotland in little towns are accordion and fiddle clubs. Strangely, some of them ban dancing to what is essentially dance music! 

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The figures on the layout, which looks superb, are they French?  Or are they English, with a rubbish French accent, or German with an interesting French accent?

 

That aside, I do like the man leaning on his rake, with what appears to be a fag in his mouth, and the man leaning on the wall, standing with his legs crossed.

 

Edit:  No looked again and this time my eyes worked, it is not a fag it is his nose!

Edited by ChrisN
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So what if some of the Prachett books were rather dark. The real world is rather dark at times. Besides the poorest is head and shoulders above most other writers. To have achieved such a long series is a najor achievement let alone maintain such quality.  I did find raising steam less humerous than others but could that be because I am too close to the subject. A frend Brian Dominic made a model based on the Luggage for his 16mm garden line (sadly now closed due to vandalism)  http://mdlr.co.uk/luggage.html

 

Don

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Having studied this layout at various exhibitions - and always finding it rather good - I have noticed that some of the young ladies are somewhat under-dressed and disporting themselves in rather provocative poses!

 

But I still don't know who made the figures?

 

Regards

Chris H

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Sorry, but I've on just come on board to the pannier and Stanier rhyme -

it really isn't good enough on such a pedant ridden thread to casually throw away attribution to "someone" !

 

Anyway in terms of small LMS tanks - why has someone like Compound not nominated the MR 0-6-4 Deeley "flat irons" ? Even flatter than a 5700  I'd suggest.

 

The Cromford North London tanks were a part of my grammar school days and Brake van trips with my kindly old English teacher W.H. Hoult who was a regular contributor to the Manchester Grauniad's Miscellany column and "Derbyshire Countryside" on tramways, canals, and railways.

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The 0-6-4Ts would have been 3Ps, they were hardly small.  Alternatively, there were the Stanier/Kitson 0-4-0STs and the Sentinel Chip Carts post grouping.

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55 minutes ago, runs as required said:

 

Anyway in terms of small LMS tanks - why has someone like Compound not nominated the MR 0-6-4 Deeley "flat irons" ? Even flatter than a 5700  I'd suggest.

 

 

The theme was small, black, and LMS - the 2000 Class fails on all three counts - although I seemed to be in a minority of one arguing that pre-grouping engines didn't count as LMS; the way the question was first phrased seemed to me to imply LMS designed engines. It's like those threads one sees from time to time asking for advice on typical LMS in the 1930s - there was no such thing, but typical ex-LNWR, ex-Midland, ex-L&Y, ex-Caledonian, ex-GSWR, ex-Highland, ex-NSR, ex-Furness in the 1930s is perfectly reasonable. I repeat again my contention that the LMS wasn't really LMS-like until the 1950s, though even then the stamp of the pre-Grouping companies was still strong. After all, the bulk of the infrastructure was built by them and they'd mostly had three-quarters of a century to make their mark, unlike the brief quarter-century of the LMS, the middle third of which was marked by the depression and the last third by war and its aftermath. 

 

Ditto LNER but even more so, and the Southern too - apart from the onward march of third-rail electrification. On most of the Great Western, time stood still from 1923 if not earlier.

 

Enough of this dismal post-Groupingery. With our host's recent layout photos in mind, here's a proper Edwardian engine:

 

927948857_Nordatlantic.jpg.a89afb748287637776de7fdf4bc57bb6.jpg

 

Vive l'entente cordiale!

Edited by Compound2632
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6 minutes ago, brack said:

Those pipes and wiggly bits on the outside make it quite improper (much like those young lady figures Metropolitan H has studied)

 

Now come on, we all know His Majesty the King-Emperor was passionné pour l'entente cordiale.

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Our James was on about the LMS large black class he saw on his GC outing, but on a pregroup thread an improvement would be the LMS small black class, I.e. small, black, and “LMS” painted on it (somewhere), Shirley?

343B673C-8030-4388-A654-DAA8ECAA337D.jpeg.a7ccc8355849174a274681c1ebee1ff6.jpeg

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20 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Is that what might be called a large brown?

 

2 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Our James was on about the LMS large black class he saw on his GC outing, but on a pregroup thread an improvement would be the LMS small black class, I.e. small, black, and “LMS” painted on it (somewhere), Shirley?

 

 

Some folk are incorrigible...

 

36 minutes ago, brack said:

Those pipes and wiggly bits on the outside make it quite improper (much like those young lady figures Metropolitan H has studied)

 

... besides which above footplate level I see nothing more improper than a Westinghouse pump (not worn in the best of circles, I admit) and a top-feed, which does hint at Mr Churchward's modernism. The Walschaerts valve gear might be considered to smack of the Folies Bergère.

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On the subject of the atlantic, I admit they've tried, but they've got things wrong - the front bogie should be inside framed and the rear truck outside. Not a huge fan of such an asymmetric axle spacing on the tender either...

 

36 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Now come on, we all know His Majesty the King-Emperor was passionné pour l'entente cordiale.

Surely in Edward the Caresser's case its les ententes cordiales, given his johnsonesque tendency to accidentally leave children around the place.

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9 minutes ago, brack said:

they've got things wrong 

 

 

Where "they" grew up in Sydenham. 

 

9 minutes ago, brack said:

 

Surely in Edward the Caresser's case its les ententes cordiales, given his johnsonesque tendency to accidentally leave children around the place.

 

Fewer than you imply, if any. Certainly none by the time he was King - well past it. The present Duchess of Cornwall is said to resemble Lt-Col. George Kepple. 

 

 

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