pendlerail Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Hello everyone, on my small layout I have a 3 way point in my Shunting yard (inglenook) on one of the directions none of my shunters will cross the frog, I have Electrofrog points with frog juicers all other points work fine but this one doesn't so today I tried to short the layout out to see what happens, and when I tried that route another frog juicer changed and the layout, it is the Left hand route that is causing the problem, most big engines cross it just fine but not really useful on an Iglenook! any ideas anybody? Thanks Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Argos Posted March 20, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2016 Hi Pendlerail, I was struggling with an electrical error on a 3 way turnout. The problem turned out to be that I had used an old wiring diagram. you need a piece of plain rail (i.e one not connected to a juicer) between the frogs connected to different juicers (or terminals if using a dual or hex). This needs to be isolated from the frogs connected to the juicers (obviously!) and powered. There are a lot of wiring diagrams floating around the web which do not show this plain rail section. The problem is that a short wheel base loco will run onto the first frog tripping it to the correct current direction, then move straight onto the second frog. If the second frog is on the opposing current the first frog switches not the second so the loco stalls. Longer locos will bridge the frogs so won't suffer this problem. It took me quite a while to figure this out as some times the fault would not manifest itself (if the second frog was already set to the correct current direction the the loco would pass unhindered). hope this helps! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Or, switch the frogs with conventional switches attached to the routes through the turnout and the problem goes away. The extra bit of powered rail is then not needed. In the situation of an installed juicer, replacing one output with a conventional switch which changes with the route set through the turnout should solve the issue. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pendlerail Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 Yeah that sounds like the problem, do you mean the rail between the frogs cut near the frog it is attached to and wired up to the bus? Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Argos Posted March 20, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2016 Pendlerail, yes! bit of a faff but it sorts the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pendlerail Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 Thanks will have a go later Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pendlerail Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 Thanks all. Looks a bit of a mess but works Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 It took me quite a while to figure this out as some times the fault would not manifest itself (if the second frog was already set to the correct current direction the the loco would pass unhindered). There's probably also some randomness (or sod's law) as to which juicer switches first. In the worst case both juicers see the fault and switch... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardman Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 You don't need frog juicers or anything complicated for a three way point (more correctly called a tandem turnout). You just need a couple of microswitches. Various sites will show you how. This is ours http://a19modelrailwayclub.org/tonys-dcc-workshop/complex-pointwork-wiring-for-dcc/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 I’ve recently discovered the same problem. 2 x 3 way points and a single slip, handbuilt and cannot be altered. Discovered when running a small 0-4-0 pug across. Sometimes it will run across, sometimes the frog won’t recognise it being there and it stalls. I decided to use frog juicers as I am using servos for the point motors so as not to have any mechanical switches on them. The servos are all wired up to their control panel. So I take it I’ll have to install a switch on the side of the servo that when the servo moves across it moves the switch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted March 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2019 Why does every thread about frog juicers always contain at least one post that says don't use juicers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said: Why does every thread about frog juicers always contain at least one post that says don't use juicers? Because that seems to be the way of the world nowadays! Not just threads on frog juicers either. Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 I've been using the juicers for a few year now, 3 ways, singles, turntables and reversing sections, never had any problems. Can't fault the products from Tam Valley. Simon 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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