Wrenn Railways

[andyman7]

I've started this thread to share and discuss Wrenn Railways. Growing up in the 70s, I was as a child unaware of the circumstances of how their range came about, but always found it strangely unbalanced - some nice looking models of main line engines, a wagon range decorated largely in fairly lurid colours and a coach range that consisted entirely of Pullmans. Of course, when you understand how the tooling was inherited from Hornby Dublo, it all made a bit more sense.

 

As a teenager, I became aware that certain of their models filled gaps (at that time) left by other makers - the Class 20 being one (until the Lima model came along) and the 'City' (i.e. their Coronation class), which modelled the de-streamlined version (unlike Hornby's which at that time was only suitable for 6230-4). When Wrenn introduced the Mk2 chassis on the City with larger wheels, it made a real difference and I really wanted one of them but they were expensive then and the prices rose very steeply in the 1980s so I never quite had the money together.

 

In the 1970s, Wrenn was a staple of most model retailers, but by the late 80s it was sold by a few specialists - I remember Beatties only stocked it at the Holborn flagship store, whilst Hattons and The Signal Box (Rochester) were stockists, as was the Harrow Model Shop. By 1990 with the advent of Bachmann, Wrenn was like some sort of comforting backdrop that had always been there but which no-one really bought anymore - then of course, suddenly in 1992 production ceased and prices of Wrenn went bonkers. I remember about 1991 going to the Sandown Park Toy and Train collectors fair and choosing not to buy a boxed Brighton Belle that was £35....and suddenly 18 months later it was a £400 item. Prices went insane, and of course the collector's market soon established that the actual production levels of many items made from the mid-1980s onwards had been tiny - the cosy backdrop I mentioned above had indeed been the case, and in practice it seems not very many people at all had been buying the models.

 

Unlike many of my compatriots, I never lost interest in model railways, and indeed as I discovered the world of auctions and fairs, found myself collecting items of interest going back to the 50s. I know 'collectors' are decried often on this forum, but I'm not talking about acquiring untouched examples and putting them away, but instead the pleasure of finding, fixing and running old trains, seeing how they are made, enjoying the developments of the hobby and so on. However, my failure to buy that Wrenn  'City' in the 1980s, or indeed the Brighton Belle at Sandown Park had meant that I always felt I'd rather missed the boat with Wrenn and it remained a gap for many years.

 

Recently however, I've been having a clearout of some stuff and trying to work out what interests me, and I realised that in reality, although it wasn't necessarily cheap, both Hornby-Dublo and Wrenn were pretty stable in price and supply, and indeed many items were available cheaper now than in the 1990s. There's a sizable but nevertheless limited market for this stuff, and it is focused on an ageing demographic so the supply and demand is clearly equalizing, and whilst rare items are limited in supply, they do of course steadily come on to the market as a result of the inevitable passage of time on their owners.

 

Although the models themselves are fairly (well OK, sometimes very) crude by modern standards, they do have a rugged charm and of course are the complete opposite of fragile superdetail models with bits pinging off every time they are picked up. Now that I am acquiring items I'm not seeking to end up with the complete range (not that I could afford it), just a representative selection from 1966 through to 1992.

 

Anyway, if you're still with me this far, feel free to post your thoughts and experiences of this particularly British range of models.....

[sagaguy]

Iv`e got a Wrenn city that i bought new at a Model engineer exhibition at Wembley in the late 70s or very early 80s.It cost me IICR £25.I converted it to 3 rail to run on my then Hornby Dublo layout.They were easy to convert,just needing a Dublo shoe assy.fitted.The only problem at the time was that they needed the magnet rotated 180 degrees otherwise they would run in reverse.These days,easy to overcome by fitting a Neo Magnet.Iv`e also got some Wrenn Pullman cars & hopper wagons that i fitted H/D couplings to.

 

                                     Ray.

[Il Grifone]

I remember that, when Wrenn (then Tri-ang-Wrenn) started in the sixties with a few reissued Dublo locos (possibly left over stock?), the price had increased dramatically. There was also a general increase in Tri-ang prices.

 

I missed the opportunity to acquire a Wrenn 'Scot' body some time ago      (£12.50 for the bare casting). She would  have cost a fortune in spare parts to complete of course, which is probably why I didn't buy it.

 

I suppose I should add the three Wrenn locos (Scot, Streamlined Coronation (really K's) and W.C./BoB - also passed off as an MN - Farish did the same in reverse in earlier times*), but for now I have a Mainline rebuilt Scot, a motorised GBL, Coronation and a motorised Airfix W.C. to stand in (or will have when I finish them...). The fake P.O. wagons I can let pass....

 

*  I understand the Farish MN actually measures up as nearer to her smaller sister.

[andyman7]

I remember that, when Wrenn (then Tri-ang-Wrenn) started in the sixties with a few reissued Dublo locos (possibly left over stock?), the price had increased dramatically. There was also a general increase in Tri-ang prices.

 

The origins of Wrenn are tied in with the disposal of HD stock, but other than some train packs that matched newly-made Wrenn locos with remaining stocks of HD coaches or wagons. nothing in the Wrenn range was directly of Dublo manufacture - the castings are all modified to replace the Hornby-Dublo logo with HD and chassis altered to add spigots for mounting Triang X171 coupling assemblies. 

 

I do have an early Wrenn issue Barnstaple that has Dublo instructions and guarantee slip in the box - the chap I bought it from says that is exactly how he bought it new in the late 1960s, and I have no reason to disbelieve him.   

[Prometheus]

I've a smallish mixed bag of Wrenn models including a five-car Brighton Belle which although in very good condition does not run terribly well. I recently updated and detailed five Mica B wagons to slightly more modern standards [see below for attachment] and also restored a dreadful Cardiff Castle which now runs as Penrice Castle. This loco, which cost £25 a year or so ago, had a reasonable chassis but it had been badly repainted sometime and then gloss varnished with a lot of fluff and a toothbrush. And then for good measure, rolled in some sand whilst the top coat was drying. It is now pretty much 'as was' in terms of livery but has had sprung buffers and more discrete couplings added. Being Wrenn, it will pull the side out of your house......

 

The tender had to be re-wheeled, original Wrenn items were sourced for that. Except for the cylinder casings [Pressfix][  I used original Wrenn transfers. These were incredibly difficult to apply as the adhesive just wasn't up to the job. In the end, very dilute PVA did the trick. A flash of satin varnish followed. Incidentally the original paint is oven-baked and required bead-blasting to remove. Nothing liquid would touch it.

 

http://srmg.org.uk/a-mid-week-quickie/

 

 

 

Oddly, in a club which numbers 90+ members, there is absolutely no interest in vintage rolling stock. Not entirely down to a wide age-range either. A mystery.

 

Tony

[Poggy1165]

That Castle is rather handsome. I am old enough to remember when the HD Castle was the 'latest thing' and people went mad over it. I still think it has its charm. 

[Prometheus]

Thanks Poggy. It's not a job I'd care to repeat though ! But you are so right, these models do have real charm.

 

Tony

[Il Grifone]

I can remember being one of a throng of admirers gazing at one of the first 'Bristol Castles' in a shop window in late 1957. I was jealous because my friend got his early, while I had to wait for Xmas. I always thought the later version's cab full of ringfield motor spoiled the model and still haven't got one (or the 8F). I have got a second 7013 though. The first has been repainted twice - to GWR livery as 'Caldicot Castle' in the early sixties (it needed hot caustic soda to remove the paint (intrepid (or is that stupid?) youth) and again in the eighties back to BR green. She has acquired a Hawksworth tender* (on an 8F/City underframe) and is to be renamed G. J. Churchward in honour of the great engineer and because 7017 was one of the most seen Castles in my spotting days. She was converted to 2 rail but is at present 3 rail. The wheels are still insulated so she could be converted back quite easily. She escaped conversion to EM because I couldn't see any easy way to correct the wheelbase errors.

 

Bristol Castle was obviously chosen as appropriate for the 'Bristolian' train set, but unfortunately they modelled a 70xx Castle and the real 7013 was really 4082 'Windsor Castle'. It was only some time after buying etched plates (7/6d - expensive at the time) that I discovered the difference... 

 

* The original had its cast coal removed (nasty job!) to fit a load of the proper stuff. It's still around somewhere.

 

Sorry a bit off topic, but really Wrenn is only Dublo under a new name.....

[Dublodad]

Prometheus

 

The usual running problem is bad contact between the non powered bogie axles and the bogie frame. This historically cause the use of non conductive oil to lubricate the axles. Cleaning the axles and refraining fro the use of oil will normally give satisfactory running. I have two Belles one brown and cream and one blue and grey

 

Terry

[Prometheus]

Thanks for that Terry - it'll be a while before it ventures towards any rail but I'll check that fault before she does. Appreciate the advice.

 

Tony

[sagaguy]

I can remember being one of a throng of admirers gazing at one of the first 'Bristol Castles' in a shop window in late 1957. I was jealous because my friend got his early, while I had to wait for Xmas. I always thought the later version's cab full of ringfield motor spoiled the model and still haven't got one (or the 8F). I have got a second 7013 though. The first has been repainted twice - to GWR livery as 'Caldicot Castle' in the early sixties (it needed hot caustic soda to remove the paint (intrepid (or is that stupid?) youth) and again in the eighties back to BR green. She has acquired a Hawksworth tender* (on an 8F/City underframe) and is to be renamed G. J. Churchward in honour of the great engineer and because 7017 was one of the most seen Castles in my spotting days. She was converted to 2 rail but is at present 3 rail. The wheels are still insulated so she could be converted back quite easily. She escaped conversion to EM because I couldn't see any easy way to correct the wheelbase errors.

 

Bristol Castle was obviously chosen as appropriate for the 'Bristolian' train set, but unfortunately they modelled a 70xx Castle and the real 7013 was really 4082 'Windsor Castle'. It was only some time after buying etched plates (7/6d - expensive at the time) that I discovered the difference... 

 

* The original had its cast coal removed (nasty job!) to fit a load of the proper stuff. It's still around somewhere.

 

Sorry a bit off topic, but really Wrenn is only Dublo under a new name.....

I remember buying  a Cardiff Castle from Basset Lowkes shop in High Holborn in the early 60s.It was(& still is) a beautiful runner when i foolishly went 2 rail & had a few locos converted.I hasten to add that Cardiff Castle is now converted to 3 rail but i swapped the tender over to my Bristol castle tender because it had metal wheels.I found that Cardiff was only picking up from the drivers because 2 rail locos had plastic bogie & tender wheels so the the metal tender wheels conducted power through the loco draw bar.It stalled on Dublo 3R diamond crossings.

 

 

                      Ray.

[sagaguy]

Didn`t Dapol buy the original Dublo tools & reissue some locos & wagons?.

 

                          Ray.

[APOLLO]

I have 2 Wrenn class 20's, a blue and a green, both run well, both permanently coupled and wired to each other. Also I have a Wren LNER green 0-6-2 tank and a Black 8 2-8-0, together with an old H/D castle.

 

Lovely runners but the Black 8 and Castle need new magnets as they have both lost most of their pulling power. Any reccomendations for a source of replacement magnets please ?.

 

Brit15

[sagaguy]

Super Neo magnets are available so long as you know which motor you want them for ie.8Fs used 1/2" motors like XO4 or later ones used ringfield motors.

 

                 Scoll down until you see the magnets,John also has Dublo service sheets on his site.

 

                        http://mainlytrains.webs.com/PriceList.htm

 

Iv`e fitted a couple in my locos but as of yet,i havn`t given them a good run.

 

                             Ray.

[andyman7]

Didn`t Dapol buy the original Dublo tools & reissue some locos & wagons?.

 

                          Ray.

Dapol bought the assets and name of the Wrenn company when it ceased trading in 1992, but although plans were announced they never re-released any locos. It turned out that the cost of making the locos would be astronomical - the tooling was very old (mostly ex-Hornby Dublo) and the degree of fettling and hand finishing made any kind of mass production untenable. However, there were copious quantities of spares, and the plastic bodied wagons were put into production, some initially on remaining stocks of Wrenn diecast chassis, and then later using the modern Dapol wagon chassis.

In 2001 following restructuring the Wrenn name and assets apart from the wagon bodies were sold to some enthusiasts who wanted to ensure that the Wrenn name was maintained in the spirit of the original company - this included Maurice Gunter, who has written the authoritative history of Wrenn. Most of the wagons are now part of the Dapol range, and a testament to the superb tooling of the original Hornby Dublo Super Detail wagon range in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Wagons such as the the Gunpowder wagon look absolutely the part on their modern chassis and completely the age of the original moulds.

[Sir Hadyn]

As a child in the 70s and early 80s, I remember Wrenn being stocked (along with British Trix/Lilliput) at Noney's in Barmouth near the station - my grandparents had retired to the area. Always looked at it but we could never afford it. It didn't seem to be stocked in the Train Shop at home in Warwick, and the Private Owner/NCB 08s and R1s fascinated me. Eventually in the mid 80s, about 86 probably, someone bought me a United Dairies 6 wheeled milk tanker. When I sold most of my 00 4 years ago, that was one item I kept. Still have an interest although I'm not a collector per se.

['CHARD]

Just one item of Wrenn rolling stock in the fleet here, a venerable Fruit D.  Originally maroon (?), repainted blue, numbered W92012W (I think) and weathered.  Its free running qualities have never been surpassed.

 

I'm fairly sure it has at least one of the blue Dapol counterparts for company.

 

At one time I had a pair of twenties, but they short circuited in multiple.  One 'chassis' (more appropriately 'undergubbins') ended up powering a Class 22 cut down from a Hornby NBL and overlaid with Howes etches.

 

I remember a junior school railway club trip to one of the Great Little Trains of Wales - probably to Towyn.  There was a model shop with a large selection of new Wrenn on display.  As a boy used to a diet of Triang-Hornby, these unattainable models seemed exotic.  I was especially keen on the wagons, which were somehow more reminiscent of the prototype even to my young eyes than the Hull & Barnsley van in all its cartoon liveries.

[Golden Fleece 30]

I remember the very first advert for the 2-6-4, Castle and 8F which was a leaflet I picked up at the Wakefield model railway exhibition in the mid 60's. I was so pleased that my beloved Dublo was going to continue and hoped the A4 would too. How disappointed I was when the A4 was advertised and had a Tri-ang tender. I got very few new ones though due to the cost and what I did was from Precious's in York or the recently closed Wakefield model and craft shop which I had used since it opened about 1968. These days I do have a handful of second hand Wrenn but no Belle as it did not look good to me and with its associated running issues. I do have a couple of 08 shunters along with their Dublo counterparts.

 

One big gripe of mine is the BR green colour being quite poor and I am not talking of the "Khaki" version's. Also a few of their Chassis's turn a greeny colour for some reason but all these matters can be repainted. I don't have any coaches as I thought Dublo Pullmans were poor and sold those I had.

 

I have recently obtained 5 mint Spam Cans quite cheap and will add a photo when I get to my PC. These had to be cheap as I could not afford 5 at their Ebay or show asking prices.

 

Out of interest the Wakefield show in those days was near Kirkgate station before moving to Unity Hall. I was still at school but allowed on the train on my own from York.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here are the Spam Cans I bought last month, 2 have already been 3-railed and I have not made my mind up about the others yet as to whether I keep all 3 or just 1 more.

 

Also attached is a Wrenn City of Birmingham in "funny" green.  This was a new loco my father bought along with a blue City of Glasgow, both sadly now repainted in different disguises.  The photo is early/mid 70's as the handbuilt track layout was only ever at my parents before I left to get married in '76.

[andyman7]

How disappointed I was when the A4 was advertised and had a Tri-ang tender.

Wrenn didn't in the end make anything in tinplate - although for a time the EMU was listed for reintroduction it didn't happen. However I find very interesting the 'crossbred' Triang Hornby Wrenn products. Triang-Hornby introduced the Flying Scotsman in 1968 which gave them a 'modern' plastic tender to put behind the Wrenn A4 (this was during the Triang-Wrenn era), and in 1970 used the same A3 loco chassis to introduce a (somewhat foreshortened) Streamlined Coronation, which in turn used the ex-Hornby Dublo City tender underframe supplied to Margate from G&R Wrenn.

 

The Triang-Hornby tender continued to be used behind the Wrenn A4 right until production ended in 1992, even though Hornby stopped using it themselves when the A3 was replaced by an A1 Flying Scotsman in 1981. Whether Wrenn continued to get supplies from Hornby after then is unclear but given the drop off in Wrenn production in the 1980s it is entirely possible that there were enough unused parts at Basildon to see them through. I do find it amusing though the number of times Wrenn A4s are listed on ebay with the comment 'not sure if it is the right tender as it says 'Hornby'.

[Golden Fleece 30]

They also advertised the S/D coaches in the blood and custard livery (not a Dublo colour scheme for these though) and the 6 wheel stove but as you say nothing tinplate was made.  Regarding the A4, Wrenn modified the rear pony truck for a different coupling using a separate bar like the Duchess although this had a pin as opposed to a hole so it would work with the Tri-ang tenders.  Wrenn also modified the Duchess Chassis to enable it to be used for either a Duchess or an A4 with plastic spacers used for the valve gear.   Dublo had the Armature in front of the rear wheel on an A4 but behind it on the Duchess, Wrenn had it behind for both with the universal chassis.

 

Wrenn also advertised an Adams Radial tank and a WR 2-6-2 Prairie but these never materialised either.

[Legend]

Interesting thread. Wrenn was my era but too expensive for a wee boy. My main exposure other than to look at the boxes in Argyle Models was at model railway exhibitions. 4mt , 8f , Duchesses , A4s and 20s were staple motive power for the Scottish layouts .

 

I always fancied the Duchesses or Cities even after the Hornby one came it because you could get a BR blue one City of Glasgow . Also fancied the Castles especially the blue Windsor Castle . Who knows may eventually get one as prices subside .

 

What is surprising is they never brought out the super detail Mk1s even though I remember seeing them in catalogue . These would have gone down well as many people are still using their original Dublo ones

 

Overall,Wrenn just had a certain charm, which is still there

[Prometheus]

They also advertised the S/D coaches in the blood and custard livery (not a Dublo colour scheme for these though) and the 6 wheel stove but as you say nothing tinplate was made.  Regarding the A4, Wrenn modified the rear pony truck for a different coupling using a separate bar like the Duchess although this had a pin as opposed to a hole so it would work with the Tri-ang tenders.  Wrenn also modified the Duchess Chassis to enable it to be used for either a Duchess or an A4 with plastic spacers used for the valve gear.   Dublo had the Armature in front of the rear wheel on an A4 but behind it on the Duchess, Wrenn had it behind for both with the universal chassis.

 

Wrenn also advertised an Adams Radial tank and a WR 2-6-2 Prairie but these never materialised either.

 

I've a mint 1974 catalogue which shows pictures for the proposed Adams Radial, almost certainly a K's kit ? interestingly, I came across an internet reference about the sale of this prototype model in an auction some years back. It was described as having been professionally built and painted for Wrenn, but had lining and rods fitted to one side [the visible side] only. It was also missing a step at the time of sale. It hammered at £150. The illustration of the small Prairie looks suspiciously like a then-current white-metal kit also.

 

The same catalogue shows an artist's impression of the ex-HD Stove. Described as 'New', it is clearly a tin-plate illustration but the model did not materialise as has been noted above.

 

Tony

[Golden Fleece 30]

Yes, Wrenn seemed to like K's as they used the K's Streamlined Coronation kit bodies for their own loco fitting it onto the Duchess/City chassis.  Unfortunately this was not a great success as more bodies were shipped back to K's than actually used.  This was I think due to poor quality castings.  Having only seen a couple of these kits myself I would never have had one as it was probably the worst kit I have seen for distortion etc.  If the ones supplied to Wrenn were from the same moulds I am not surprised a lot were returned.

 

This finished Wrenn model never looked right (or good) with poor lining on the loco and a Tri-ang tender body with raised mouldings for the lining, all in all it was a poor model but due to the small production rate commands a high price.  My money is safe though as I won't be getting one.

 

Was poor castings of the Coronation a reason the Radial and 44/45xx never progressed?

 

Garry

[Prometheus]

I wonder Garry. The K's Radial kit is definitely worth avoiding but I would have thought that a one piece body would have been used by Wrenn rather than bits from K's. I could be wrong. Anyway, we can only guess....!

 

It's absolutely staggering what the Coronation will fetch in auction though. I've only seen one and the lining on that was good, but it was professionally done.

 

The '74 catalogue also shows a planned SR Guard's Van - did that ever materialise ?

 

Tone