RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted March 9, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) Hi Chris, That Victory tank really does look the business. I am going to add a green one to the stock list of Arksey at the earliest opportunity! For those of you that have heard me talk about the new micro O gauge layout, but haven't seen the thread yet (clear here if you want an overview) then the boards are built, and the trackwork is going down quite nicely now. Also forgot to mention, the North Eastern ES1 etched brass kit arrived from Judith Edge Kits this morning, together with Mashima motors and gearboxes from Branchlines yesterday, so that will be the next big project to be tackled on this thread. Have to say it looks frightening when you first open the box and see all that flat brass! A few hours of reading, re-reading and re-re-reading the instructions will be called for I think. Also need to have a visit up to Shildon and do some pictures of the real thing to help. Having had a quick read through, I'm thinking a good supply of detail images is going to be a big help. Oh,and need to get a decent soldering iron too! Rich Edited March 9, 2017 by MarshLane 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Hi Chris, That Victory tank really does look the business. I am going to add a green one to the stock list of Arksey at the earliest opportunity! For those of you that have heard me talk about the new micro O gauge layout, but haven't seen the thread yet (clear here if you want an overview) then the boards are built, and the trackwork is going down quite nicely now. Also forgot to mention, the North Eastern ES1 etched brass kit arrived from Judith Edge Kits this morning, together with Mashima motors and gearboxes from Branchlines yesterday, so that will be the next big project to be tackled on this thread. Have to say it looks frightening when you first open the box and see all that flat brass! A few hours of reading, re-reading and re-re-reading the instructions will be called for I think. Also need to have a visit up to Shildon and do some pictures of the real thing to help. Having had a quick read through, I'm thinking a good supply of detail images is going to be a big help. Oh,and need to get a decent soldering iron too! Rich You won't be disappointed with the Kerr Stuart! Mine was the best running loco I've ever played with, straight out of the box. Weighs a ton too! Good luck with the ES1, take your time and you'll get there. There will be loads of help and advice on here to help you get there too! Cheers JF 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted March 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2017 You won't be disappointed with the Kerr Stuart! Mine was the best running loco I've ever played with, straight out of the box. Weighs a ton too! Good luck with the ES1, take your time and you'll get there. There will be loads of help and advice on here to help you get there too! Cheers JF Thanks Jon, I've read the instructions about four times now, so looking forward to getting it start - albeit a bit nervously! No doubt the good chaps on here will, as you say, be along with help and advice! Just to show that I have't been lazy (in case anyone hasn't seen the Arksey thread) - the baseboards are just about complete, with just a bit of painting to do! Rich 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted March 14, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2017 Evening all, Just a quick question for our knowledgable friends (well thats everyone other than me!) ... ... has anyone any experience of getting brass etched, or CNC milled? A friend and I are going to try scratchbuild a modern bogie diesel loco that is now in industrial use, and although nominally too big for Arksey I decided I would like one. A chance conversation ended up with a good friend saying well it cannot be too hard can it - fatal words!! So, my mate is doing the CAD drawing, and I'm hindering by getting him to try and teach me at the same time lol, and then I'm going to try and put it together. Our current thought is to get the main frames milled out of brass or steel, firstly to make sure its all square and secondly to give it some weight, and then use etched brass to make up the bodysides and bogie frames. Each bogie will be motorised with a delrin chain linking the two axles. Any advice, suggestions or pointers anyone has (on any topic! Etching brass, milling, scratchbuilding etc..) would be appreciated. I know that when creating the etch brass drawings there is a front and a back design to allow half-etching to take place, but I'm still reading up on the process. I think it will either be done by PPD or Grainger & Hodder (is that the right name?). Our aim is that if one works out, we thought next year we might put a layout together that could used four or five of them, hence we want the build process to be as easily repeatable as possible. I've been very lucky in that using a couple of contacts within the rail industry, we've been given permission to go and measure up one of the locos, and take loads of detail photos of it, so I'm hopeful for a good result! Just another little project that is on the go! Although it will be very slow progress as we are not rushing it, I'm going to build the ES1 kit before I build ours. Cheers Rich 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Now you've got me intrigued. I can only think, off the top of my head, of one mainline bogie diesel loco that's now in Industrial use but that's available as a kit or RTR. I can think of a couple of bogie loco's that have always been industrial though. You really are a tease 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Just had a Eureka moment These loco's wouldn't be related to GBRf by any chance. I don't mean the Class 20's or any of our other main line fleet either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Industrial loco only or ex BR? If it's modern & industrial could it be a C.........? JF 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted March 15, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2017 Industrial loco only or ex BR? If it's modern & industrial could it be a C.........? JF It could very well be a C........? But it isn't 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted March 22, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2017 I know I asked earlier and nobody commented, but if anyone has any experience of brass/aluminium milling ... or producing lost wax castings - could you drop me a PM, or pop a reply on here please? Just looking for some advice/background info. Thanks all! No progress with the layout or locos at the moment, due to work and family life Rich. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Rich A little experience with machining - what are you looking for? Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted March 22, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2017 Thanks to Simon for the response and comments much appreciated. As I'm typing this from a comfortable train on the East Coast Main Line heading home from London (thankfully not having been anywhere near Westminster) it seems apt to deviate from modelling and pause for a few moments to give thought for those who are not going home after today's atrocities. To those who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and those who were protecting others, my thoughts (and I'm sure those of all reading this) are with them this evening. A day that will go down in history, for all the wrong reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted April 6, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2017 Evening all, Have a day off tomorrow, and the house to myself! Wooohhh! So much I could do lol! But I've decided that it's time I bit the bullet so to speak and started my NER electric loco brass kit! New draper soldering iron at the ready, and another first for me, never tackled anything brass before so this could be fun ... or a total disaster!!! Hope to have some progress to post tomorrow evening, he says hopefully! Rich 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 This should be entertaining Rich. I've made brass kits in 4mm but not in 7mm yet, although I have some wagons and Slaters 1F loco to do. Looking forward to seeing this go together. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PjKing1 Posted April 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2017 Good luck with the kit Rich I'm still twitching at the thought of building a kit Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Evening all, Have a day off tomorrow, and the house to myself! Wooohhh! So much I could do lol! But I've decided that it's time I bit the bullet so to speak and started my NER electric loco brass kit! New draper soldering iron at the ready, and another first for me, never tackled anything brass before so this could be fun ... or a total disaster!!! Hope to have some progress to post tomorrow evening, he says hopefully! Rich Just two things to remember for soldering Rich, cleanliness and enough heat!!!! Look forward to your update Jinty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted April 7, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2017 Morning all, Well so far this morning has been a total waste of time!! That's not true, some learning has taken place but having started with the kit, I've had horrendous problems soldering - having been very careful to clean everything up, the solder just isn't taking to the brass. When it does the joint is weak and no where near as strong as I want it to be. So I've come to two conclusions one I think I may have picked up electrical solder by accident and two the iron isnt heavy enough on power, with the result that the brass is taking the heat out of it. As you'll see from the couple of pictures below the base frame is a large piece of brass and I don't think the iron can cope with losing that amount that quickly. So a call to Pete at C&L resolved the query, but also means that I need to hold onto until next week when Phoenix Paints should have their new Carrs website up and running so I can get the proper solder. Pete also suggested that it was likely more the solder than the iron causing the issue. So one step forward and two steps back!! Rich PS Slight issue posting pictures from my phone so I'll update this post after lunch with images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Hi Rich, What wattage is your iron? What solder are you using? I use a Weller 40w iron for general work and I haven't come across any part of any kit that it couldn't cope with using 145 degree solder (leaded) and Powerflow flux. A lot will gringe at the use of that kind of flux, but a good wash cleans it up well. Hope you get sorted as I'd hate to think you'd get disheartened over soldering!!! Regards Jinty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 You're right Rich, finding out that you're doing something wrong and being able to fix it is not a waste of time. You didn't pick up lead free solder did you? I have a roll of 60/40 Lead Tin solder that is used for electrical work. It is not cored with Rosin and I reckon it's equivalent to 188C solder. It works on the brass kits that I've built. Normally I use Carrs 145C. I've been using acid free flux for my kits so far which works for me. I do have Carrs Green but it does get up my nose. I don't know what you're kit looks like. Others have advised me to get a mini butane torch, for use with large lumps of metal, that is very precise: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-ST2200T-Butane-Micro-Torch-330194/100564678 John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) I've used powerflow for ever and a day, but having been advised that despite washing thoroughly, it might still come back to haunt me, I have tried a different approach. Most of my recent efforts have been fluxes very satisfactorily with citric acid made up to saturated in boiled water, and with about 50% iso-propyl alcohol added. Seems to work well, doesn't go green & manky, but does get very sticky! That just rinses off with water. And it's ridiculously cheap - Wilko sell citric acid in small pots, or you can get it on the w3. Lead free solder is an unmitigated nuisance, it needs a very hot iron, and it's difficult on brass. Use low temperature if just cored electrician's stuff. Best Simon Edited April 7, 2017 by Simond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted April 7, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2017 Afternoon all, Well I said I would update the thread with a couple of pictures - thanks to those who have commented etc, responses to follow! Having read through the instructions from Michael Edge several times, I started with this... and removed the frame baseplate from the fret, along with the two solebars. As there are some rivet details on the outer edge of the solebars I decided that the small 'tacks' of solder that are suggested in the instruction should be done on the inside Now as you'll have gathered from my previous comments at lunchtime, getting the solder to actually work proved less than difficult, and having lifted the frame place, I gently placed a finger against the sole bar which confirmed my fear that I hadn't got things right, as it fell over and slid onto the glass board! So just need to wait until next week when I can order some solder - unless anyone can point out another supplier of 145 and/or 188 degree solder?? - and then I'll come back and have another go. I've taken a small file and some wet/dry to both the base frame and solebars, removed all the existing solder and cleaned them back up again, ready to have another bash! I assume there is no special 'tip' for a soldering iron for things like this? Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted April 7, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2017 Hi Rich, What wattage is your iron? What solder are you using? I use a Weller 40w iron for general work and I haven't come across any part of any kit that it couldn't cope with using 145 degree solder (leaded) and Powerflow flux. A lot will gringe at the use of that kind of flux, but a good wash cleans it up well. Hope you get sorted as I'd hate to think you'd get disheartened over soldering!!! Regards Jinty Hi Jinty, Thanks for the reply - its a Draper 25w I think, to be honest my previous one was a 20watt that I just used for electrical connections and it packed up a few weeks ago, so this was on offer at The Range! I've been thinking about going to a 40-50watt iron, so I'll have a look at what Weller do. The solder is some stuff I've had for a while, and the label has dropped off! But I'm now thinking it was electrical solder and probably not the right stuff. Pete at C&L has suggested going for 145 and 188 degree solder when Precision Paints get their website up and running, which they tell him should be next week, with all of the Carrs product range. So I'll do that I think. Is CIF (what used to be JIF) the best thing to scrub brass over with after its been soldered? Pete also suggested removing some of the spare 'holding' fret and using that to practice doing 90 degree soldering on .. an obvious idea really, but one I hadn't thought about! Not really disheartened, more disappointed that I'd got an entire day of peace and quiet to do something and not really achieved anything! But I enjoyed the bit at the start, so I'll keep that in mind!! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted April 7, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2017 You're right Rich, finding out that you're doing something wrong and being able to fix it is not a waste of time. You didn't pick up lead free solder did you? I have a roll of 60/40 Lead Tin solder that is used for electrical work. It is not cored with Rosin and I reckon it's equivalent to 188C solder. It works on the brass kits that I've built. Normally I use Carrs 145C. I've been using acid free flux for my kits so far which works for me. I do have Carrs Green but it does get up my nose. I don't know what you're kit looks like. Others have advised me to get a mini butane torch, for use with large lumps of metal, that is very precise: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-ST2200T-Butane-Micro-Torch-330194/100564678 John Hi John, All a very big learning curve for me, but thats good I was always that odd kid out in class at school that actually wanted to be there and enjoyed it!! Hmm, now you mention it, it could be lead free solder, that seems to ring a faint bell somewhere along the line - another indicator its the wrong stuff! I did think about a Butane Touch, but decided that the risks to health, the kitchen worktop and the house insurance were too great to bound into one of them! With the soldering iron the worst that can happen is I need to replace a carpet tile from the spares in the loft, before somebody gets home!!!! I've used powerflow for ever and a day, but having been advised that despite washing thoroughly, it might still come back to haunt me, I have tried a different approach. Most of my recent efforts have been fluxes very satisfactorily with citric acid made up to saturated in boiled water, and with about 50% iso-propyl alcohol added. Seems to work well, doesn't go green & manky, but does get very sticky! That just rinses off with water. And it's ridiculously cheap - Wilko sell citric acid in small pots, or you can get it on the w3. Lead free solder is an unmitigated nuisance, it needs a very hot iron, and it's difficult on brass. Use low temperature if just cored electrician's stuff. Best Simon Hi Simon, Not heard of powerflow before, but I'm guessing it some form of flux liquid or paste? The flux I've got, which I'll have a look at the brand when I go back downstairs, seems to work well on most things, and doesn't leave a greeny coloured mess. Give both John's comments and yours I'm thinking it could be lead free solder. In which case its maybe not the iron thats at fault? Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I would say that 25W is much too small Rich. My Weller soldering station is rated at 50W. When soldering Comet 4mm underframes I had to increase the tip temperature from 340C to ~ 390C to get the solder to flow. Insufficient heat will feel sticky. Use a fiberglass pen to clean the surface before soldering. Use plenty of flux (it's not single malt as Iain Rice says). ...and yes, do use lead solder, I hate the non lead stuff (although I'm sure there will be those who disagree). I'm with you on open flames but this torch has quite a small one. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 That's such a shame Rich, I hope you get it sorted mate, and start to produce this Monster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Hi Rich, Powerflow flux is basically plumbers flux paste and will leave uncleaned items green. I too have heard of its problems with paint not adhering, but I tend to clean my completed soldered items in Acetone which removes it all very well. A lot of these modern (health and safety conscious) fluxes are supposed to be very good, but I'm yet to try them myself, but I do intend to do so at some point. I've just acquired some quite nice 185 degree solder of that famous auction site, and it flows very nicely with the Weller 40w iron. It's also considerably less expensive than some brands. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282089050345?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=581041279216&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT This is the iron I use for general kit building, and I have a Chinese temp controlled iron for detail and smaller bits. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Weller-Soldering-Iron-Kit-SP40NK-LED-Light-40-Watt-230-Volt-/400948271821?hash=item5d5a611acd:g:HKkAAOSw~AVYnhYx And I use angled screwdriver tips that allow a clearer view and the angle helps getting into recesses to apply heat. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Weller-replacement-Soldering-tip-S4-6-3mm-3-Piece-iron-SP40L-SI40-accessories-/361626762927?hash=item5432a27eaf:g:WjkAAOSw4DJYkqct I'm sorry if it looks like an advert for Soldering equipment, but I just wanted to show you what I use with no problem. For my 145 degree solder I use C&L products. There are also some solder pastes out there which are full Tin/Lead and I've tried a couple of brands and found them to be rather good. Hope that helps in some way Rich? Jinty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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