************* Presents?

[Derekstuart]

Thanks for an interesting half hour of reading chaps. I cannot believe you horrible lot would have an argument on here and not tell me about it.

 

As for this Mr Dibben- he's just a young lad who clearly hasn't much of a clue what he is doing. Hell, I was young and clueless once. When I first started in business whilst I didn't directly lie I might have possibly indirectly given the impression of having a bigger business than I really did. Who hasn't?

 

He is no robert maxwell. Maybe a cross between Arthur Daley and a pillock, but no serious fraudster. Google him- no one with a grin and that haircut can possibly be a major criminal mastermind. (no offence intended btw, but if you look you will see what I mean).

 

Dakota me old pal (is that your real name btw or is it one of the other clearly fake profiles and aliases here), if you read this let me give you a piece of advice; be honest and clear with people and I bet you that most of those lining up to make marrakas out of your wedding tackle would probably be queuing up to help you instead. Oh and the other advice is- get a hair cut.

 

Now off to the 'whinging baskets' thread for a moan about it.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Derekstuart

[t-b-g]

Nobody has said that only "proper" clubs should be allowed to put shows on.

 

All people seem to want is that if people want to put a show on for their own personal financial gain, that they should be up front and straight about it. No "pretend" clubs or "in support of" with possibly a tiny donation going to charity and a big chunk being "organisers expenses".

 

That way, people would be able to make an informed choice as to whether or not they are willing to give up their time to exhibit there or whether they want to part with hard earned cash at the door when they might prefer to wait a few months and support the real club in the area when they put on their show rather than the one that has been invented for the purposes of getting people to help out.

 

At least with the BRM/Warners shows, there is no pretence and everybody knows that they are commercially based from the outset.

[Revolution Mike]

What t-b-g says is exactly the point to me - I want to know who is benefiting so I can make the choice whether to support the show (as a punter or exhibitor).

 

Cheers, Mike

[Torper]

As a mere punter, I'm not bothered about who's running a show.  All that I'm really concerned about are the quality of the layouts exhibiting and the range of traders attending.

 

DT

[bbishop]

Nobody has said that only "proper" clubs should be allowed to put shows on.

 

All people seem to want is that if people want to put a show on for their own personal financial gain, that they should be up front and straight about it. No "pretend" clubs or "in support of" with possibly a tiny donation going to charity and a big chunk being "organisers expenses".

 

That way, people would be able to make an informed choice as to whether or not they are willing to give up their time to exhibit there or whether they want to part with hard earned cash at the door when they might prefer to wait a few months and support the real club in the area when they put on their show rather than the one that has been invented for the purposes of getting people to help out.

 

At least with the BRM/Warners shows, there is no pretence and everybody knows that they are commercially based from the outset.

Tony, Thank you for summarizing the arguments so succinctly. I would slightly disagree with your first paragraph, because Gellert in particular has received some unnecessary trolling, but well put. Hopefully, this thread can die a natural death because, frankly, it hasn't progressed the hobby one iota.

 

Bill

[Derekstuart]

It has provided clarity for people to make informed decisions. Some people have decided that information learned makes no difference to them. Others have decided that information has made a difference to them.

 

The bit of clarity provided has thus, surely, progressed the hobby at least three and a half iotas.

 

Signed

Steve

Sorry I forgot my name for a moment there. A mad moment*

Derek

Tony, Thank you for summarizing the arguments so succinctly. I would slightly disagree with your first paragraph, because Gellert in particular has received some unnecessary trolling, but well put. Hopefully, this thread can die a natural death because, frankly, it hasn't progressed the hobby one iota.

Bill

 

*A reference to post 86, 88, 90 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudian_slip

Edited September 2, 2016 by Derekstuart

[rab]

As a mere punter, I'm not bothered about who's running a show.  All that I'm really concerned about are the quality of the layouts exhibiting and the range of traders attending.

 

DT

I guess as punters it doesn't make

that much difference to us,

but I can understand that exhibitors

putting in quite a lot of hard work,

want to know who is benefiting from that hard work

[Dagworth]

There is one show I attend and contribute to every time it happens.

That show is organised by one man under the name of a group that consists effectively of that one man.

Every penny that show makes goes to support a local charity.

That show has a great reputation here and elsewhere for quality layouts.

 

Cheltenham GWR Modellers Group is Mike Walker.

 

Next show October 29th/30th. See you there for the exhibition debut of Bow Locks

 

http://cheltmodrail.org.uk/

[298]

Nobody has said that only "proper" clubs should be allowed to put shows on.

 

All people seem to want is that if people want to put a show on for their own personal financial gain, that they should be up front and straight about it. No "pretend" clubs or "in support of" with possibly a tiny donation going to charity and a big chunk being "organisers expenses".

 

 

I'm sure such ventures would be launched with the best of intentions, but it's all one step away from the infamous "Winter Wonderland" experiences that cost an arm and a leg but don't promise much and deliver even less.

 

You're probably thinking "Yeah right, that won't happen over here", but in some countries, very nearly the whole exhibition scene can be summed up with a few organisers moving Plywood Central layouts between towns with little local input at the shows. Perhaps it's a good job that these faux commercial events aren't actually that good at extracting money from the pockets of the general public, otherwise they'd have a vastly different interpretation of the hobby...

[mudmagnet]

There is one show I attend and contribute to every time it happens.

That show is organised by one man under the name of a group that consists effectively of that one man.

Every penny that show makes goes to support a local charity.

That show has a great reputation here and elsewhere for quality layouts.

 

Cheltenham GWR Modellers Group is Mike Walker.

 

Next show October 29th/30th. See you there for the exhibition debut of Bow Locks

 

http://cheltmodrail.org.uk/

I think the difference here though is that Mike makes a big thing about being a charity event and when Mike spoke to me a couple of years ago about attending, he stated that this was for CLIC and as such is happy to provide reasonable travelling expense, but not accommodation. We paid our own accommodation and happy to do so. My friend attended last year with his layout and waived all expenses because being a charity event.

 

I was approached by Dakota a couple of times and indeed invited to attend the show in July. Due to a number of reasons, I declined. I've not heard any reports about this show. Did anyone here attend?

[01.gellert]

Tony, Thank you for summarizing the arguments so succinctly. I would slightly disagree with your first paragraph, because Gellert in particular has received some unnecessary trolling, but well put. Hopefully, this thread can die a natural death because, frankly, it hasn't progressed the hobby one iota.

 

Bill

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks for the concern.

Don't worry about it, I have realised how people are getting confused between links between me and Dakota... Well, now and I know to chose my sponsor more carefully in future (although he offered to sponsor me and I wasnt aware of what he was doing and anyway, I didn't really want to turn down a sponsor).

 

Hang on a minute.  Harry is totally open and honest about the objectives of any exhibition that he runs.  He also understands risk and return, and communicates with his exhibitors and punters.  You can note the support he is giving to Gellert, with his Hersham exhibition.

 

Regarding Coolings, we received an invite to the December 2015 exhibition, filled in the paperwork with costs for two cars, and heard no more.  Obviously our costs were too high, but it's quite a squeeze to get a 34' layout even into two cars, and an e-mail declining our invite should be an automatic courtesy; if nothing else, frees the operators to accept another invite.  We won't consider Coolings again.

 

Bill

Harry??

Harry has got nothing to do with me....

Its Dakota who is sponsoring me.

 

My apologies to you.

 

Was it Dekota Dibben that used the fake names?

 

Dave

Yes, but don't worry.

 

 

Regards,

Gellert

[grahame]

As a mere punter, I'm not bothered about who's running a show.  All that I'm really concerned about are the quality of the layouts exhibiting and the range of traders attending.

 

There's always someone who stands to benefit from any potential surplus from running an exhibition, whether that be specifically a charity, a model clubs coffers, an entrepreneur, a commercial businesses profits (such as Meridian - TINGS, Warner's - the National Festival of MRs, etc.,) and so on. And who might also take a hit in the event of a loss.

 

Generally, for me, it doesn't have a big impact on the decision to attend or not, and there are a whole host of other factors that do influence and are considered. But it is always nice to know just who the beneficiary is.

 

G

[bbishop]

Hi Bill,

 

 

Harry??

Harry has got nothing to do with me....

Its Dakota who is sponsoring me.

 

Yes, but don't worry.

 

 

Regards,

Gellert

I'm meaning moral support, not financial support.

Bill

[dasatcopthorne]

As a mere punter, I'm not bothered about who's running a show.  All that I'm really concerned about are the quality of the layouts exhibiting and the range of traders attending.

 

DT

DT.

 

I guess you're a railway modeller. So who do you prefer to support with your entrance fee. A commercial concern or individual, or a Model Railway Club.?

 

Dave

[dasatcopthorne]

There is one show I attend and contribute to every time it happens.

That show is organised by one man under the name of a group that consists effectively of that one man.

Every penny that show makes goes to support a local charity.

That show has a great reputation here and elsewhere for quality layouts.

 

Cheltenham GWR Modellers Group is Mike Walker.

 

Next show October 29th/30th. See you there for the exhibition debut of Bow Locks

 

http://cheltmodrail.org.uk/

How can a single person call themselves 'a group'.

 

Dave.

[Guest]

How can a single person call themselves 'a group'.

 

In the same way that I think of myself as sophisticated. Mind you, I guess I'm just kidding myself, not others!

[Ryde-on-time]

How can a single person call themselves 'a group'.

 

Dave.

Makes me think of the recent Royal International Air Tattoo where one for the displays was an F16 aircraft by the Belgian Air Force 'Solo Display Team'

[Reorte]

I guess you're a railway modeller. So who do you prefer to support with your entrance fee. A commercial concern or individual, or a Model Railway Club.?

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but anyway...

 

I'm not that bothered. If there's a choice between two exhibitions at the same time that I'd both want to go to I'd prefer to support a club, but if I feel I'll get good value for my entrance fee I'm happy if the money is going towards an individual or commercial concern. The caveat is that I'd have to be happy with the individual or commercial concern (or I suppose club for that matter), and trying to present themselves as something they're not is something that would make me view them in a dim light.

[Torper]

DT.

 

I guess you're a railway modeller. So who do you prefer to support with your entrance fee. A commercial concern or individual, or a Model Railway Club.?

 

I don't go to model railway shows to support anyone.  All I'm interested in is the quality of the show which is maybe why I only go to two shows a year, neither of which happen to be "commercially" or individually organised.  However I'd rather go to a good show organised commercially than to an average one organised by an model railway club.

 

DT

[Dagworth]

How can a single person call themselves 'a group'.

 

Dave.

BY knowing the history it makes sense

 

http://cheltmodrail.org.uk/group.html

 

"GWR Modellers Group was started in 1974, when it rented a basement room in Lansdown Crescent. In October 1977, new premises were provided and a garage was converted into a clubroom. Space restrictions, however, were always a problem, which limited the number of members. In 1993/4 it was decided that the club should fold.

However, because of the success of its exhibitions, it was decided to continue to organise these in order to display other people's layouts and to benefit the charity CLIC. The exhibitions continue, under the direction of Secretary, Mike Walker."

 

Andi

[Geoff Endacott]

BY knowing the history it makes sense

 

http://cheltmodrail.org.uk/group.html

 

"GWR Modellers Group was started in 1974, when it rented a basement room in Lansdown Crescent. In October 1977, new premises were provided and a garage was converted into a clubroom. Space restrictions, however, were always a problem, which limited the number of members. In 1993/4 it was decided that the club should fold.

However, because of the success of its exhibitions, it was decided to continue to organise these in order to display other people's layouts and to benefit the charity CLIC. The exhibitions continue, under the direction of Secretary, Mike Walker."

 

Andi

 

And a very good group he is too.

 

Geoff Endacott

[dasatcopthorne]

I see that the old talking point has raised its head again and we have an Exhibition this weekend by the Modelfest Club in Kent.

 

Is there such a Club?

 

I've sent them a mail to the address in the UK Modelshop listing, but have yet to receive an answer. No phone number either.

 

Are we looking at another fictitious Club?

 

Dave

[Talltim]

I have to say, having read this thread, that I still completely confused

[The Stationmaster]

I have to say, having read this thread, that I still completely confused

 

Seeing it had leapt forward a bit I have come back for another look - and am leaving with a sense of déja vu having read it all before.

 

BTW I have been to two of his exhibitions - one was pretty good for a small show, the second one not so hot. But then I've been to occasional abysmal club organised shows over the years as well as some far from good ones organised by definitely commercial concerns.

[Guest]

Google him- no one with a grin and that haircut can possibly be a major criminal mastermind...

 

I must have missed that quote first time round. Certainly made me chuckle.

 

I honestly think if anyone has doubts, don't go to the show. Other than that, I really can't see the harm. He is, after all, promoting the hobby and I thought that was supposed to be a good thing? The world in general has us pegged as a bunch of freaks and weirdos anyway. Unless of course I read between the lines, and the dissent in this thread is more about cliques.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Pete 75C