The Locomotives of Boulton's siding

[Metropolitan H]

To get the full story regarding Isaac Dodds and his son Thomas Weatherburn Dodds the 1921 book by Major S Snell can be found at https://archive.org/stream/storyofrailwaypi00sneliala#page/n5/mode/2up

 

A fascinating read - but I am still not connvinced that the photo of the locomotive page 142(?) is attributtal to anyone other than Manning Wardle.

 

Regards

chris H

[Sarcodelic]

7 hours ago, Ruston said:

What do you mean by a "general aura"? Apart from being inside-cylindered saddletanks, with six wheels, I can't see any features shared by the two.

According to Bradley, Swale was as an 0-6-0 tender locomotive when bought by the LCDR and was then later rebuilt as a saddle tank by the Chatham.

 

 

[relaxinghobby]

On 23/07/2019 at 13:55, sir douglas said:

Model railway Constructor 1948, i forget which page, a model of Ant

 

heres part of the article concering it

 

The "Ant" is really included to make a contrast with No 44. it has 8mm wheels and is equipped with everything possible down to the brake blocks. This loco was formerly "Queen of The Forest" (Delamere forest, Cheshire) and in condition shown was "bought" into Boulton's siding--really in exchange for a second hand 6 hp portable engine.

The cylinders were 7in x 14in stroke and wheels 2ft diameter. In July 1872, after being renovated by Boulton, it was sold to Kirkleatham Iron co, middlesborough for £250. In 1878 it was re-bought by Boulton and sold to Butterworth & Brooks, Manchester for £200 and finished her career there.

 

...she is painted as many in Boulton's yard, royal Blue, yellow lining and black undercarraige

 

 

 

Here is my attempt at producing a copycat picture of the old Model Railway News article. From left to right my RTR American switcher, my version of Amy, another small loco from Boulton's Yard and a version of the LMS switcher, a non runner built from an original Airfix kit. I changed the cab, moving the front specticle plate back and opening the sides.

 

Amy will now feature over on a scratch building thread where I will try to motorise it.

Edited April 28, 2020 by relaxinghobby
Spelling and gramma

[Compound2632]

On 06/11/2019 at 17:41, Armchair Modeller said:

 

3 Santander 0-2-0 Dodds 1861

 

 

Banking engine?

[Ruston]

On 04/11/2019 at 10:34, TurboSnail said:

Work has started on Lady of the Lakes, body in primer. Still not 100% sure what I'm doing about the chassis but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it!

 

On 04/11/2019 at 10:34, TurboSnail said:

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Ruston

[sir douglas]

just about finished on my first Boulton based on Star and Swallow, the safety valves are in a different arrangement than they should be, both together on the dome instead of 1 on the dome and 1 on the boiler but rule#1

 

[sir douglas]

ive now finally got myself a copy of the Chronicles, the main points of interest to me are the 2 mentions of Lister Kaye and 1 of Smith & knight. Lister Kaye was a colliery owner near Wakefield, 1 of which was Caphouse, now the mining museum. Smith & knight was a contractor which all ive been able to find out is that they were based in Wakefield.

 

based on page 60 & 61, the drawings and photos arent specifically of star or swallow but of the other near identical sister engines and swalllow isnt mentioned at all

[Northroader]

Best wishes for the season to you, Sam. Smith and Knight were contractors who built the first stretch of the Metropolitan railway, Paddington to Farringdon, so must have been quite capable. There’s a well known photo of a trial trip of the nobs in S&K contractors broad gauge wagons, before opening.

[Nearholmer]

Bankrupted in the process of building The Imperial Mexican railway in 1868. That railway was one that used Fairlie double engines from about the same date, and for ages thereafter. This one dates from as late as 1911 http://www.enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/articles/mexican fairlie.pdf

 

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by Nearholmer

[wagonman]

15 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Bankrupted in the process of building The Imperial Mexican railway in 1868. That railway was one that used Fairlie double engines from about the same date, and for ages thereafter. This one dates from as late as 1911 http://www.enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/articles/mexican fairlie.pdf

 

 

 

A locomotive that will be familiar to any reader of Private Eye!

[John M]

Smith & Knight also built the Athlone-Castlebar (71¾mile) section of the Great Northern & Western Railway in Ireland, Lord Lucan's line on what was basically a guaranteed maximum price contract between 1859&62. 

[Compound2632]

The Irish railways had some splendid titles - the Midland Great Western being my favourite for bashing together two English titles - which included the Athlone-Castlebar line. There was the Great Northern, a magnificent railway not to be confused with the piffling Lincolnshire potato line, and the Great Southern & Western, not to be confused with the Glasgow & South Western. 

 

None of the above should be confused with E. Nesbitt's Great Northern & Southern.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Compound2632

[Ruston]

Welbeck and Portland.

 

These two engines (Chapter XII of The Chronicles) were bought by I.W. Boulton from The Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway, in 1867. Bennett states that they were 2-4-0 passenger engines and that they were bought without their tenders. Boulton rebuilt them into saddle tanks and both are drawn in the book as such.

 

No wheel diameters other than those as rebuilt are given (2ft. 6in. leading and 3ft. 6in. driving) but I would expect that they were much larger diameter before rebuild, being as they were passenger engines.

 

As for their origins Bennett states that their L&Y numbers were unknown, nor were their dates and places of origin. On this subject he then states that J.W. Boulton (Isaac's son) thought they may have been built by Longridge & Co. but without substantial foundation. Also that E.L. Ahrons suggested that they were probably two of the engines built by Stephenson in 1844 for the Norfolk Railway, passed to the Liverpool, Crosby & Southport Railway and into L&Y ownership in 1855, though no reason for this is given for why he thought this. Apparently they were illustrated in The Locomotive of January 1904.

 

The reason for this preamble is that I was looking through my copy of Mark Smithers book on E.B. Wilson and Manning Wardle and in it there is a drawing of Eastern Counties Railway No.116, a Wilson "Jenny Red Legs" 2-2-2 and another of the same engine after rebuild to a 2-4-0ST. As a saddle tank it retains the large diameter wheels but the similarities to the two Boulton engines (Portland in particular, with its gothic firebox) are striking. The wheelbase between the leading and first driven axle look very similar, as does the driven wheel base. The connecting rods with the rod pinned to the crosshead on the outside of the slide bars is the same on all three engines and appears to be something that other Wilson engines used.

 

I am suggesting that these two engines could well have been built by E.B. Wilson. What do you think?

Does anyone have a copy of the illustration of the Stephenson engines for the Norfolk Railway for comparison?

 

 

 

 

[Argos]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The Irish railways had some splendid titles - the Midland Great Western being my favourite for bashing together two English titles - which included the Athlone-Castlebar line. There was the Great Northern, a magnificent railway not to be confused with the piffling Lincolnshire potato line, and the Great Southern & Western, not to be confused with the Glasgow & South Western. 

 

None of the above should be confused with E. Nesbitt's Great Northern & Southern.

 

The Midland Great Western is known simply as the "Midland", it being the only railway of any importance with that name...........

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Argos said:

 

The Midland Great Western is known simply as the "Midland", it being the only railway of any importance with that name...........

 

Oh. I thought it was known as the Great Western...

[Killian keane]

https://www.shapeways.com/product/538N8D97R/thwaites-0-6-0?optionId=142480555&li=shop-inventory

one of Mr Bs more handsome locos up on shapeways

[sir douglas]

September RM just came in for me and in the "Museum of transport" article on page 706, anybody else notice a little side tank with 122 on the side that has a resemblance to the John Smith on page 1 of this thread

[SignalArts98]

I started a project a while ago using one of Killian Keanes prints to make a model of one of Issac Boultons locomotives Queen of the Forest in 009 (before she became Ant) using a heavily modified Bachmann Skarloey chassis with new 8mm wheels as at the time I was building it was the closest option I had to her actual wheelbase of of 3ft 9in. It had also been remotored with a 6x15mm coreless motor from Tramfabreik as the original can motor from Skarloey was too big. It still is very much an unfinished ongoing project and is also on hiatus as at the moment as I have a few other projects to do and also I discovered the Bachmann N gauge Percy has a dead on accurate wheelbase (bar the wheels which are 7.4mm diameter) and would be easier to develop on as the experience I'm gaining from working on this I will feedback to Killian so that a scratch aid could be developed for others who want to build their own QoTF or Ant. When I get around to it again I will update you all soon and with that further progression on completing the bodyshell I hope.

 

Dan 

 

 

 

 

 

[sir douglas]

the ironworks where "Ashtonian" worked including the tunnel requiring it to be such a squat loco

 

[sir douglas]

do you think there is at least a passing resemblance between "Welbeck" and this Bury, it would fit the description of an L&Y 2-2-2

 

 

this is from the Bury page on Graces Guide, the  address for the image says it is from page 114 of Volume 135 which is an article by E.L. Ahrons, i dont know anymore than that since you cant get into the pdf without having to pay

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/The_Engineer_1923/02/02

[sir douglas]

i think this might have already been mentioned somewhere, but this photo looks a lot like Hercules

https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-39520

[sir douglas]

Another find, this time from a european online photo archive with lots of interesting stuff, i recently came across and am slowly going hrough it all, but anyway a 2-4-0 with resemblance to the above Bury and Welbeck.

https://www.e-pics.ethz.ch/index/ethbib.bildarchiv/ETHBIB.Bildarchiv_101611.html

 

the photo has no info apert from the date 1850 (which could either be date or photo date), i posted ina  FB group and got a reply that it might be L&Y and some of the 2-2-2's were rebuilt as 2-4-0

 

[Gibbo675]

27 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

Another find, this time from a european online photo archive with lots of interesting stuff, i recently came across and am slowly going hrough it all, but anyway a 2-4-0 with resemblance to the above Bury and Welbeck.

https://www.e-pics.ethz.ch/index/ethbib.bildarchiv/ETHBIB.Bildarchiv_101611.html

 

the photo has no info apert from the date 1850 (which could either be date or photo date), i posted ina  FB group and got a reply that it might be L&Y and some of the 2-2-2's were rebuilt as 2-4-0

 

Hi Sir Douglas,

 

What I find interesting is that the connecting rod is joined to an arrangement that looks similar to a gradient pin knuckle rather than the crank pin as is more usual.

 

Gibbo.

[sir douglas]

didnt notice that, this could also suggest this is one of the rebuilds and they didnt want to or couldnt have the coupling further out from the wheel. the only other way around this would be to move the cylinder out from the frame

 

[Northroader]

It looks like the crosshead is in line with the coupling rod, then the connecting rod is bolted on the side of the crosshead, passes outside of the motion bracket, then there’s a set in it to line up with the coupling rod, and a pin join with the coupling rod. Different way of going on. Agree it looks very like an early L&Y engine.