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The Locomotives of Boulton's siding

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Ah another modeller? Is there a parlimentary model railway club, there must be a big empty celler somewhere in Westminster Palace, big enough for a big roundy roundy ?

Perhaps a full length model of HS2 using Hornby Eurostars?

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3 hours ago, relaxinghobby said:

.... there must be a big empty celler somewhere in Westminster Palace, big enough for a big roundy roundy ?

 

Yeah - there's the one which Guy Fawkes used for meetings of the House of Commons Homemade Fireworks Club.

 

..... but we all know how that ended !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwod.

Edited by cctransuk

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4 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Yeah - there's the one which Guy Fawkes used for meetings of the House of Commons Homemade Fireworks Club.

 

 

Now there was a man ahead of his times.

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Work has started on Lady of the Lakes, body in primer. Still not 100% sure what I'm doing about the chassis but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it!

 

IMG_20191103_165044.jpg.a18d52461c82d494cc94b1c6a9a65e30.jpg

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Not exactly a Boulton loco, but something in a similar style.  I came across this in a hundred year old book on Thomas Dodds, and thought it should be shared.

The caption says it all.

337907372_doddscontractorloco.JPG.b38c04c6f839d1152ba51163d1b0bf29.JPG

The loco crew look a fine bunch of men!

Edited by Nick Holliday
Correction of typo
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Is this the same company as Dodds & Son, of the Holmes Engine & Railway Works, Rotherham?

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14 hours ago, Ruston said:

Is this the same company as Dodds & Son, of the Holmes Engine & Railway Works, Rotherham?

Yes

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Were also building locos for the Shrewsbury & Hereford Railway, well actually for Brassey who was running the show.  Some ended up with the LNWR, possibly some with the GWR, but I suspect none with Boulton.

Jonathan

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Can anyone read the name?

 

To me, it looks like: "Ysabel.", but then I can't work out what the last part is. Might it be a Roman numeral denoting a particular queen, or something else? it looks almost like a Greek lower case "mu".

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The Queen was Isabella (sometimes called Ysabel) the Second, roughly contemporary with our Queen Victoria, so I was looking for 2 or II, but I’m not at all convinced that’s what it is.

 

Maybe it’s 21, a loco number, and the name is plain Ysabel.

 

Well, here it’s says Ysabel II 

 

http://vulcano.caminos.upm.es/Ferrocarriles/Locomotora_Ysabel.html

 

And, Wikipedia agrees https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Línea_Palencia-Santander

 

But, this stamp says Ysabel 2A, so I’m not the only one having trouble with it! (Unless 2A is equivalent to 2nd.?)

 

9675318A-CAA1-400D-B920-D07BB0CE3A04.jpeg

Edited by Nearholmer
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Here's another

img056.jpg.e9b20f1043cd29c04f5016f2bd93bd51.jpg

 

Details

 

NºnombrerodajefabricanteNº de fabAño de fabRef.

1 Isabel II 0-2-0 Dodds 1857(1)

2 Francisco de Asis 0-2-0 Dodds 1861

3 Santander 0-2-0 Dodds 1861

4 Preserverancia 0-2-0 Dodds 1861

5 Habanera 0-2-0 Dodds 1861

6 Castilla 0-2-0 Dodds 1861

7 Alar del Rey 0-2-0 Dodds 1861

8 Cantabria 0-2-0 Dodds 1861

9 Alfonso 0-2-0 Dodds 1861

10 Velasco 0-2-0 Dodds 1861

11 Bonifaz 0-2-0 Dodds 1861

12 Blasco de Garay 0-2-0 Dodds 1861(2)

13 Colon 0-2-0 Dodds 1861

14 Paz 0-2-0 Dodds 1861

 

(1)Empleada en la construcción de la linea

(2)Retirada por explosión de la caldera el 22 de agosto de 1868

 

taken from https://www.spanishrailway.com/alar-a-santander/

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On 04/11/2019 at 13:26, Nick Holliday said:

Not exactly a Boulton loco, but something in a similar style.  I came across this in a hundred year old book on Thomas Dodds, and thought it should be shared.

The caption says it all.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_11/337907372_doddscontractorloco.JPG.b38c04c6f839d1152ba51163d1b0bf29.JPG

The loco crew look a fine bunch of men!

Hi Nick,

 

I agree the crew look the business but the the thing I note is that there aren't any steps to ease access to the cab or running plate. Would access be gained from a leg up using the spokes of the wheels perhaps ?

 

Gibbo.

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2 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Nick,

 

I agree the crew look the business but the the thing I note is that there aren't any steps to ease access to the cab or running plate. Would access be gained from a leg up using the spokes of the wheels perhaps ?

 

Gibbo.

I can't help with the lack of steps, but looking at the photo I noticed that there is a rather peculiar arrangement with the entrance to the cab. The bunker sides seem to come within the inside of the splashers, whereas there is a cab side sheet which is positioned well outside the splasher, almost on the outside edge of the running plate. This seems to suggest the way into the cab was to walk along the running plate, between the side sheet and the bunker.

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The cab side sheet has been drawn on afterwards, surely. The perspective looks ever-so-slightly wrong, and there are other oddities about the picture that suggest very heavy re-touching.

 

It could be either a Victorian fake-up, the sort of thing used in makers' catalogues sometimes, or a modern digital fake.

 

I think there might be the ghost of a footstep at 3 o'clock on the rear coupled wheel.

 

And, the wheels themselves look peculiar, possibly being built-up, rather than one piece. Very antiquated.

 

And, and, what is going on around the front and rear crank-pins?

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer

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11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I think there might be the ghost of a footstep at 3 o'clock on the rear coupled wheel.

 

And, the wheels themselves look peculiar, possibly being built-up, rather than one piece. Very antiquated.

I agree about that footstep 'ghost'.

The spokes appear to be 'T' shaped in cross section, similar to those on several CR Drummond ST pugs, including the one I'm currently building, but of lighter section.

 

Jim

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The more I look at it, the more sceptical I am about that photo.

 

Look at the wheels. Why is there not the faintest sign of a spoke at 1 o'clock, on any of them? There ought to be some highlight in the shade on at least one.

 

And, the spokes below the ghost footstep seem to make no sense.

 

The left-most guy on the footplate: why no shadow across his forehead under the brim of his hat?

 

Does anyone know where the photo came from, and how many/what artistic, printing and digital-manipulation processes its been through since it began (presumably 150 years ago) as a nice clear analogue photographic plate? The "mudging" it has suffered may be a combination of the deliberate and the accidental, but I'm convinced it's not all accidental.

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On 05/11/2019 at 09:57, Nick Holliday said:

 

Yes

So, who was Thomas Dodds? Was he the son in Dodds & Son? James W. Lowe's British Steam Locomotive Builders gives the name Isaac Dodds as the one who established the Holmes Engine & Railway Works.

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The Dodds 0-6-0ST must be the one listed in this ILS document as an 0-6-0T, which worked on Benton & Woodiwiss contract to build the Hyde Juntion to Marple line.

https://www.industrial-loco.org.uk/ContractorsLocosVols1-VI.pdf

 

As we're going off topic into the odd and the unusual of ancient industrial and contractor's locomotives, can anyone identify the one below. It's scanned from what appears to be a fairly modern reprinted photo, which has no details at all on the back.

ui060st-1.jpg.5d42b8aa8b2b9d5a50a2bb21cf3fe6e1.jpg

On the print I can make out the last three lines on the plate that read "& Sons -  Engineers -  London". It's a very odd-looking machine, which I presume is standard gauge but if it is, and those buffers are set at the ususal height then everything above the running plate is out of proportion and much smaller than one would expect; almost as if it's a narrow gauge boiler and bodywork, stuck on a standard gauge frame and wheels.

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7 minutes ago, Ruston said:

The Dodds 0-6-0ST must be the one listed in this ILS document as an 0-6-0T, which worked on Benton & Woodiwiss contract to build the Hyde Juntion to Marple line.

https://www.industrial-loco.org.uk/ContractorsLocosVols1-VI.pdf

 

As we're going off topic into the odd and the unusual of ancient industrial and contractor's locomotives, can anyone identify the one below. It's scanned from what appears to be a fairly modern reprinted photo, which has no details at all on the back.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_11/ui060st-1.jpg.5d42b8aa8b2b9d5a50a2bb21cf3fe6e1.jpg

On the print I can make out the last three lines on the plate that read "& Sons -  Engineers -  London". It's a very odd-looking machine, which I presume is standard gauge but if it is, and those buffers are set at the ususal height then everything above the running plate is out of proportion and much smaller than one would expect; almost as if it's a narrow gauge boiler and bodywork, stuck on a standard gauge frame and wheels.

Gives off the general aura of brotherhoods of Chippenham, if the plate says London Id wager 50:1 its an owners plate rather than a builders plate 

IMG_20191107_133914.jpg

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3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The left-most guy on the footplate: why no shadow across his forehead under the brim of his hat?

And the hat on the young chap on the right on the footplate seems to be balanced about 2" off to the left of his head!

Jim

Edited by Caley Jim

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1 hour ago, Killian keane said:

Gives off the general aura of brotherhoods of Chippenham, if the plate says London Id wager 50:1 its an owners plate rather than a builders plate 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_11/IMG_20191107_133914.jpg.f96f4192324fff8912dc78b1a97cf305.jpg

What do you mean by a "general aura"? Apart from being inside-cylindered saddletanks, with six wheels, I can't see any features shared by the two.

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Ruston

 

i surmise that your engine with white wheels has just been rebuilt, possibly with an entirely new frame, possibly part-new frame, and is being photographed to show the extent of work done, the new bits having been whitewashed to stand out.

 

Kevin

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On 04/11/2019 at 13:26, Nick Holliday said:

Not exactly a Boulton loco, but something in a similar style.  I came across this in a hundred year old book on Thomas Dodds, and thought it should be shared.

The caption says it all.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_11/337907372_doddscontractorloco.JPG.b38c04c6f839d1152ba51163d1b0bf29.JPG

The loco crew look a fine bunch of men!

Chaps,

 

I have read the follow-up posts / speculation, but I am intrigued as the pictured 0-6-0ST looks very similar to pictures of early Manning Wardle locos of the "Old Class I" - with the exception of the huge diameter chimney and the wheels which do not show the second crank boss at 180 degrees to the crank pin.

 

Regarding the wheels, the blank area at the 1 o'clock area may be a cast in web / infill providing an elemect of balancing (unlikely) and or extra strength - I'm assuming that the wheel centres were cast-iron at that date rather than steel as used in later years. Also, have you notice the tyre fixing screw / rivet heads between the spokes?

 

By the way I don't think the bunker is narrower than the cab side-sheets - I think they are the same width, it is just that the rear splasher finishes about half-way across the cab side opening (he splasher is set well in towards the long centre line of the loco from the side sheets.

 

Was Dods anything to do with Manning Wardle? - Or EB Wilsons, whose designs passed to M-W?

 

Regards

Chris H

 

PS - Have a look at http://www.leedsengine.info/leeds/histmw.asp

- particularly the first photograph showing MW "K" Class No.1071 - apart from spoke lining the wheel centres look identical to the "Dodds" loco.

Edited by Metropolitan H
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