Prometheus Posted October 13, 2016 Author Share Posted October 13, 2016 I suppose now they are going to become collectable which I wonder will be the rare ones which might command the highest price might even get £1 for each one Have a look on eBay ! Staggering ! The prices [more-often-than-not] charged on there for WWs are way beyond optimistic and I don't believe that they sell. £20 for example. A lot are completely unrestorable too. 'Craven Llewelyn' was one of the original wooden bodied series and phased out when the metal bodies were introduced. The original series had both end door and side door wagons, AFAIK only 'Saxa Salt' survived into the metal era. I came across the expression "sought after" referring to these early wagons in a magazine from the sixties recently. Later wooden bodies were 5 plank and salt wagons. The wooden body was replaced by a metal casting with plastic extensions. Being nylon, nothing will stick them permanently. Ah, that's bad news ! I had no idea, so it will be scarce then. There is one on eBay right now but it's really too expensive. One will turn up eventually however. Thanks too for filling in some of the history of these interesting wagons. This is something which caught my eye recently. I'd love to have a go at one of these, a Kenline kit... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kenline-Unbuilt-Kit-LMS-Louvred-Vented-Fish-Van-Kit-Finescale-Wagon-/112154590316?hash=item1a1cef3c6c:g:zT4AAOSwpLNX79Zl But not at that price. A very nicely made-up one, too... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kenline-Kit-LMS-Louvred-Vented-Fish-Van-Finescale-Wagon-ABSOLUTELY-SUPERB-/112164990884?hash=item1a1d8defa4:g:BLAAAOSwgmJXwvyG I think some scurrying around in those plastic trays under the tables is called for ! Thaks all for your responses and interest. I must finish that K's GWR Banana Van now. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 The e-bay prices may be 'staggering' - but do they actually get sold at those prices? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted October 13, 2016 Author Share Posted October 13, 2016 I very much doubt it, unless by a die-hard who is looking for a gap filler until a mint example comes along. Best part of £23 for these for eg: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-PECO-OO-GAUGE-RAILWAY-OPEN-TOP-MINERAL-KIT-WAGONS-PETERBOROUGH-COOP-LLEWELYN-/322286850382?hash=item4b09cb114e:g:xxAAAOSwvg9XayU4 They've been up for a long time and they'll continue to gather dust up there, too. And neither is easily restorable which, for me, would be the object of the exercise. Looking this morning, there are a lot of more moderately priced ones available currently however, although not as unmade models or the two or three coal trucks that I'd like. But they'll come along... Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted October 13, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2016 PECO "Wonderful Wagons" are one of the few things I can afford to collect. I first saw them with my Dad at a MRC Easter Show at the Central Hall in, I think, 1954. Having "done" the exhibition, we returned to the PECO stand to buy a couple of kits but they were not yet available for sale - delays between anouncements/displays and issue are nothing new! Eventually, my Dad managed to buy two (I suspect he didn't admit to Mum how expensive they were - 7/6 when a Trix or Dublo open wagon would have been around 4/6). He built them using a soldering iron to melt over the plastic pips and an adhesive called "Durofix" for other assembly. We thought they were marvellous - truly "wonderful" as at that time, our Trix wagons were printed tinplate with no underframe detail at all. Here were wagons with underframe detail, bodies with 3D relief (the embossed card) and novelties like sprung suspension and buffers, even though the plastic was very visco-elastic. And the colours.... by this time, coal wagons on BR were uniformly liveried in coal dust. I knew from our Trix "Charingons" and "Hinchcliffe" wagons that at one time PO wagons were dark red - but these new wagons were yellow and green (C & G Ayres) and pale yellow (Hickling)! Later on, these two were joined by a Mangers salt wagon but by then, HD and Trix were making wagons by die-casting and injection moulding, so the PECO fleet did not grow further. Fast forward 40 or 50 years and I think I have managed to collect all that were made, as they were available cheaply at toyfairs and on E-Bay. Some were bought as kits which i made up, but the bulk were bought assembled. I cannot help but think of the previous builders and owners, who must by now nearly all have gone to the Great Heavenly Railway (with pearly gates at the terminus rather than a Doric Arch!). I started to convert them to tensionlock couplings from the original Simplex, though the project has stalled for a while, but to be honest, the original wheels (and I think they are all moulded) need replacing as well. But one day, I will run them as a train behind the BG or Tango. The last time I looked at the PECO catalogue, the only 00 Wonderful Wagons available as complete kits were tankers but many of the embossed cards were still available, as were the underframes.......... I have possession of a 1955 Peco catalogue, which appears to be the first introduction of the Wonderful Wagons range with a four page spread for the 12 wagons available. There were 5 end-door and 5 side-door, all 7 plank types, with 1 weathered (or coal-smeared finish as Peco has it) of each type. The price list, dated April 1955, gives a total retail price of 6/11 each. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locomad Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 The e-bay prices may be 'staggering' - but do they actually get sold at those prices? I doubt it eBay as gone like this "eBay madness" springs to mind, often sold by people who have little knowledge of model railways hence comments like unknown make might be a kit. Car boot this morning after the collectors had brought some stuff at a silly time of 6am they had left box of railway junk, couple of triang platforms broken rails, badly built airfix kits, very rough super quick building and couple of very rough wonderful wagons bits missing,couple of flatten bodies, I offered 20p for the waggons, he refused later I returned purchased a couple of hand tools, hammer plus wagons £1,one was the co-op one. This I've added to my bayer-garratt train might even get 100 one day. Certainly not going to pay silly e-bay prices Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) On 13/10/2016 at 10:49, Prometheus said: Have a look on eBay ! Staggering ! The prices [more-often-than-not] charged on there for WWs are way beyond optimistic and I don't believe that they sell. £20 for example. A lot are completely unrestorable too. Ah, that's bad news ! I had no idea, so it will be scarce then. There is one on eBay right now but it's really too expensive. One will turn up eventually however. Thanks too for filling in some of the history of these interesting wagons. This is something which caught my eye recently. I'd love to have a go at one of these, a Kenline kit... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kenline-Unbuilt-Kit-LMS-Louvred-Vented-Fish-Van-Kit-Finescale-Wagon-/112154590316?hash=item1a1cef3c6c:g:zT4AAOSwpLNX79Zl But not at that price. A very nicely made-up one, too... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kenline-Kit-LMS-Louvred-Vented-Fish-Van-Finescale-Wagon-ABSOLUTELY-SUPERB-/112164990884?hash=item1a1d8defa4:g:BLAAAOSwgmJXwvyG I think some scurrying around in those plastic trays under the tables is called for ! Thaks all for your responses and interest. I must finish that K's GWR Banana Van now. Tony The kit is one of the early ones, which is just the body. This consists of embossed and printed card. It is necessary to out the parts and fit them together. Further card then provides the strapping. For rivets etc. and underframe you are on your own. The LMS (ex L & Y) fish van is really well done (unlike my youthful attempt at one - cutting out all that framing was beyond my skills). However I think that is actually made from the ERG printed card of the same vehicle, rather than the Kenline kit. The latter is printed in pale grey, whereas the ERG one is printed on white card. Note even the 'professional' builder didn't attempt the rivets. Whether it's worth £69 is another matter. The running qualities of Peco wagons are greatly improved be replacing the wheels (I find they tend to go off true). I replaced most of mine with Jackson wheels, but replacing the brass bearing cups with the current 'Hard-lon' bearings and modern wheels on pinpoint axles results in an extremely free running vehicle. The axlebox springs are a little too stiff to be much use. I have experimented with cutting the bar across the top of the moulding, but then they seem to go the other way and to be too soft. In the suggestions to the two Peco wagons there was this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-MYSTERY-KIT-BUILT-WOOD-OO-GAUGE-OPEN-TOP-MINERAL-WAGONS-CHARRINGTONS-WOOD-Co/322275057050?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D39272%26meid%3D7fdef81fbae14c0bb0b99327fc2c9f68%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D322286850382 The mystery is quickly solved - they are Merco lithos on Hamblings rather crude solebar/axleguard units. Hamblings also supplied the buffers I think. These are the (in)famous 'Wood and Co.' wagon I referred to above, plus the ubiquitous 'Charringtons' wagon. And a weathered one here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MYSTERY-KIT-BUILT-WOOD-OO-GAUGE-OPEN-TOP-MINERAL-WAGON-SR-WOOD-LTD-LOAD/322264932825?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D39272%26meid%3Dad88144775c34b8292da0f0543eb5173%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D322275057050 3 of the first series Peco wagons with printed solebars. The 'Stafford' salt wagon was later available with the diecast body and the two mineral wagons are 'Parkend' and G & C Ayres' (the other ready weathered wagon). Edited October 19, 2019 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted October 13, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2016 Have a look on eBay ! Staggering ! The prices [more-often-than-not] charged on there for WWs are way beyond optimistic and I don't believe that they sell. £20 for example. A lot are completely unrestorable too. Ah, that's bad news ! I had no idea, so it will be scarce then. There is one on eBay right now but it's really too expensive. One will turn up eventually however. Thanks too for filling in some of the history of these interesting wagons. This is something which caught my eye recently. I'd love to have a go at one of these, a Kenline kit... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kenline-Unbuilt-Kit-LMS-Louvred-Vented-Fish-Van-Kit-Finescale-Wagon-/112154590316?hash=item1a1cef3c6c:g:zT4AAOSwpLNX79Zl But not at that price. A very nicely made-up one, too... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kenline-Kit-LMS-Louvred-Vented-Fish-Van-Finescale-Wagon-ABSOLUTELY-SUPERB-/112164990884?hash=item1a1d8defa4:g:BLAAAOSwgmJXwvyG I think some scurrying around in those plastic trays under the tables is called for ! Thaks all for your responses and interest. I must finish that K's GWR Banana Van now. Tony I have a feeling that Kenline used to have a range of wagon parts. I wouldn't be surprised if some of my 50-year-old SDJR stock has got some of their axle-guards and brakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Kenline made a very nice range of wagon kits which, with care, turned out well. Along with the complete wagons they sold a wide selection of parts (buffers, brake gear, axleboxes and springs etc.) which were very useful for scratchbuilding better chassis for proprietary bodies and fitting to plastic wagon kits for extra weight. I used to have a box full of Kenilne, ABS etc. packets of parts - but it's vanished! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locomad Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 This thread has started us off now just how many where produced ? I've got multiples of the common ones but still missing many listed from catalogues from 90's see by then you had to buy them separately. Certainly not going to pay silly e-bay prices so looks like "boxes under the counter" will be a cheap source will be on look out @ local toy fair this weekend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Some lasted longer than others ('Saxa Salt' for example) but some of the first series are quite rare. I suspect the later ones didn't sell as well, as there was a glut of plastic R-T-R P.O. wagons available from the early seventies*, which were better detailed and cheaper (ignoring that many had 10' wheelbase underframes and 17' 6" bodies - I didn't buy any of the otherwise excellent Airfix ones for this reason), This was acceptable with Dublo's 7 plank mineral wagons in the thirties or even in the fifties (Dublo's Saxa Salt wagon...), but we had moved on by then. * This actually started with the Trix wagons in the sixties, which were a great step forward, even if somewhat compromised - the scale was Trix's aberration of 1:80, though they were overlength and so resulted about correct fot 4mm and the curb rail had been omitted from the sides (we'll ignore the underframe). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Kenline made a very nice range of wagon kits which, with care, turned out well. Along with the complete wagons they sold a wide selection of parts (buffers, brake gear, axleboxes and springs etc.) which were very useful for scratchbuilding better chassis for proprietary bodies and fitting to plastic wagon kits for extra weight. I used to have a box full of Kenilne, ABS etc. packets of parts - but it's vanished! I still do, (also Mopok) and don't know what to do with them! Wrong scale for me now. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I still do, (also Mopok) and don't know what to do with them! Wrong scale for me now. Paul Sent you an e-mail Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 This actually started with the Trix wagons in the sixties, which were a great step forward, even if somewhat compromised - the scale was Trix's aberration of 1:80, though they were overlength and so resulted about correct fot 4mm and the curb rail had been omitted from the sides (we'll ignore the underframe). I have several Trix wagon bodies, stripped of their factory finish, which I have fitted onto an assortment of chassis with the addition of a thin curb rail. Suitably 'weathered' into 1960'ish BR condition they look OK in a train of assorted ex-PO style wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) The best part of three years' searching has at last found that elusive Craven Llewelyn coal wagon. For £6 on eBay I acquired this the other day: The left-hand one was made by an old friend, now departed. The right hand one is the new one and in really quite good shape given its mid-50s provenance. It requires only a very light restoration. I'll change the wheels and the original coupling however. I can now rest. My work here is done. Tony Edited July 8, 2019 by Prometheus Unforgivable grammar [but I am retired]. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Does anyone have a complete list? IIRC there were a dozen 7 plank minerals (counting the weathered versions as separate items), six salt wagons and six 5 plank wagons with wooden bodies, plus I've lost count of how mant metal bodied versions. There were also vans, five 3 plank opens and a CONFLAT, together with assorted card containers for these. Curiously the 3 plank opens have diagonal strapping which AFAIK was only applied to four GWR wagons for container traffic (O35?), which bear only a passing resemblance to the Peco wagon. Finally there were the tank wagons which, along with a few card body sheets, are still available I believe. Some of the wagons were duplicated in TT, which unfortunately died as quickly as it was born once Tri-ang withdrew support, remaining only as a specialist scale (Yes, I do have some items...). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 Don’t forget the lime wagons too, salt wagons with appropriate overlays. Or were you referring to the original releases? Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 The conflat wagons never stood the test of time, the two that i had bent like bananas but I still have a 5 plank wagon. Ray 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) On 09/07/2019 at 02:40, Prometheus said: Don’t forget the lime wagons too, salt wagons with appropriate overlays. Or were you referring to the original releases? Tony I had sort of overlooked them. They had 5 plank metal bodies with a plastic roof. I don't recall a wooden version On 09/07/2019 at 03:14, sagaguy said: The conflat wagons never stood the test of time, the two that i had bent like bananas but I still have a 5 plank wagon. Ray The same thing happened to mine. Zinc pest strikes again! I have a box of the things, but nowhere near a full set. I was going to do a Saxa Salt as a 'super detail' job, curing the overthick corner plates etc., but then the Bachmann version appeared. I always avoided collecting them (slippery slope!). The ones I have are all left-overs' from the early days. I did fit them with end posts from strip wood. The flat representaion of the embossed card is their worst feature IMHO. Edited July 31, 2019 by Il Grifone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Nostalgia plays a big part in liking these wagons.I was going to make an offer on a Baddesley unmade kit on ebay but the pics don`t show any wheels.Having looked around the web,it appears that you can`t purchase thse wheels .Oh well! Ray. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 The Peco wheels are rather rubbish - nylon and very prone to not run true in my experience. Luckily almost anything 12mm in diameter will do as a replacement. I use the Nucro/Jackson spoked wheels I have replaced on other stock. Replacing the brass bearings with the current nylon ones will allow standard 26mm pin point axles to be used. The 'Baddesley' wagon is one of my favourites - the green shading is unusual. I had one way back, but it disappeared. Luckily I have acquired a replacement. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Today I made the mistake of adding four more to my collection. Three I didn't have:- G & C Ayres & Richard White & Sons from the first series and Pinxton with a metal body. I had lost my Parkend (probably I threw it out when I painted my Trix wagon), but now have a replacement! I must not collect anything else! I must not collect anything else! I must not collect anything else! I must not collect anything else! I must not.... 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 19, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Il Grifone said: I must not collect anything else! I must not collect anything else! I must not collect anything else! I must not collect anything else! I must not.... I must not collect anything else! - Ooh. There's another one on e-bay.... Edited October 19, 2019 by melmerby 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 There are loads of them! Including this one - bad news for anyone who thought it might one day be valuable! Probably less in real terms than it cost new (definitely, considering it's free postage). Hardly MIB seeing all the bits have been taken out.... (There is also an assembled one for twice as much!) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peco-Wonderful-Wagon-Kit-1981-Wedding-of-Charles-Diana-Mint-in-box-Kit-A/192916747257?hash=item2ceabbf3f9:g:nooAAOSwJ9Vc2vSO I saw an absolutely hideous crudely drawn souvenir mug for this in a charity shop yesterday. I imagine it will be there for a long time! (The question is not why it was given to the charity, so much as why it was bought in the first place!) And then there is this gem https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M5-9-ephemera-1950s-advert-wonderful-indeed-peco-oo-gauge-wagons/323782245777?hash=item4b62ecfd91:g:nq0AAOSw4A5Yxwwm Only £2 + £1.25 or perhaps not or perhaps not.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Souvenir mugs aren't necessarily bought. Every kid in my primary school got a terrible and cheaply printed one for the Silver Jubilee in 1977. The printing on mine hadn't worked terribly well, resulting in Her Maj apparently having leprosy. Ironically, that probably made it somewhat rarer whilst being no more valuable or desirable. Dunno what happened to it, but the skip when we cleared my late mother's house seems a likely destination. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Il Grifone said: There are loads of them! Including this one - bad news for anyone who thought it might one day be valuable! Probably less in real terms than it cost new (definitely, considering it's free postage). Hardly MIB seeing all the bits have been taken out.... (There is also an assembled one for twice as much!) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peco-Wonderful-Wagon-Kit-1981-Wedding-of-Charles-Diana-Mint-in-box-Kit-A/192916747257?hash=item2ceabbf3f9:g:nooAAOSwJ9Vc2vSO I saw an absolutely hideous crudely drawn souvenir mug for this in a charity shop yesterday. I imagine it will be there for a long time! (The question is not why it was given to the charity, so much as why it was bought in the first place!) And then there is this gem https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M5-9-ephemera-1950s-advert-wonderful-indeed-peco-oo-gauge-wagons/323782245777?hash=item4b62ecfd91:g:nq0AAOSw4A5Yxwwm Only £2 + £1.25 or perhaps not or perhaps not.... Weren't the wagons given away as a free gift when you spent a certain amount at the retailers? That's how I got mine. And the Hornby one as well. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R010-PUGH-amp-CO-LONDON-by-APPOINTMENT-HM-KING-7-PLANK-COAL-WAGON-MIB-nq-/283475969197?nma=true&si=VSjKh419WYCLqeQZ5NvXQDO2Xok%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 Jason 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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