Wagon wheels for kits

[cheesysmith]

I have been checking and have noticed that Dapol now supply their 12mm wagon wheels as spares. As a lot of wagon kits are designed to use 12mm wheels, like the Romford ones, and if using the Hornby or Bachmann versions you can have problems with the brakes rubbing (because they represent the new size wheels at 12.5mm).

 

Having just checked on evil bay, the romfords are on at £16 for 12 axles, the Dapol ones are £11.30 plus £3.95 post for 20. Also, the post stays the same if ordering 2 packs.

 

Edit-to be a fair comparison, can someone supply what the cost of romfords are direct and does anyone know if Dapol supply wheels to shops (which would make them cheaper, no p&p).

Edited September 12, 2016 by cheesysmith

[Bedders]

Any idea what the axle length is?

[Dunsignalling]

I have been checking and have noticed that Dapol now supply their 12mm wagon wheels as spares. As a lot of wagon kits are designed to use 12mm wheels, like the Romford ones, and if using the Hornby or Bachmann versions you can have problems with the brakes rubbing (because they represent the new size wheels at 12.5mm).

 

Having just checked on evil bay, the romfords are on at £16 for 12 axles, the Dapol ones are £11.30 plus £3.95 post for 20. Also, the post stays the same if ordering 2 packs.

 

Edit-to be a fair comparison, can someone supply what the cost of romfords are direct and does anyone know if Dapol supply wheels to shops (which would make them cheaper, no p&p).

Just measured a couple of pairs taken from wheels tub at random.

 

Bachmann 3-hole: 12.71mm over treads, axles 25.98mm over pinpoints.

 

Dapol 8-spoke: 12.6mm over treads, axles 25.62mm over pinpoints.

 

Examining both using a magnifier, the tread/flange profile differs between the two makes, the Dapol shape looks altogether more angular.

 

If you want to use them on kits, you'll still need to fiddle with the brake-gear. Personally, I'd stick with the Romfords, though my own preference is Gibsons.

 

I have experienced a certain amount of grief with Dapol metal wheels on a friend's large layout (Code 100 Streamline) on which I oversee C&W matters. He had bought about a dozen new Dapol wagons fitted with these wheels and it quickly became evident that all but a couple would regularly derail, usually when being shunted. The back-to-back's measured OK and the wheels exhibited no obvious differences to those on the unaffected wagons. The problem disappeared when I substituted Bachmann wheels.

 

John

Edited September 12, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Il Grifone]

AFAIK Bachmann, Hornby and Dapol wheels are all 12.6mm diameter or thereabouts, whereas Gibson etc. are 12mm. The UK axle standard length is 26mm but variations are found!

 

The larger size is nearer to prototype (usually 3' 2"), but variations do occur and there is a tolerance for wear (2½" IIRC). Many kits are designed for 12mm and the brake gear needs adjustment for larger wheels.

[St Enodoc]

Just measured a couple of pairs taken from wheels tub at random.

 

Bachmann 3-hole: 12.71mm over treads, axles 25.98mm over pinpoints.

 

Dapol 8-spoke: 12.6mm over treads, axles 25.62mm over pinpoints.

 

Examining both using a magnifier, the tread/flange profile differs between the two makes, the Dapol shape looks altogether more angular.

 

If you want to use them on kits, you'll still need to fiddle with the brake-gear. Personally, I'd stick with the Romfords, though my own preference is Gibsons.

 

I have experienced a certain amount of grief with Dapol metal wheels on a friend's large layout (Code 100 Streamline) on which I oversee C&W matters. He had bought about a dozen new Dapol wagons fitted with these wheels and it quickly became evident that all but a couple would regularly derail, usually when being shunted. The back-to-back's measured OK and the wheels exhibited no obvious differences to those on the unaffected wagons. The problem disappeared when I substituted Bachmann wheels.

 

John

The derailment problem does appear to be linked to the Dapol wheel profile. A friend of mine could not get his 6-wheel milk tankers to stay on the track until he replaced the Dapol wheels with Hornby ones.

[Richard Lee]

The derailment problem does appear to be linked to the Dapol wheel profile. A friend of mine could not get his 6-wheel milk tankers to stay on the track until he replaced the Dapol wheels with Hornby ones.

My experience makes me suspect that the 6-wheeled tankers from Dapol come with different wheels to their normal wagon wheels.  I bought a 'Polegate Treacle Mines' 6-wheeled tanker that had been made by Dapol for another company.  As it came, it derailed horribly, not just on points, but also on the 30" scenic curve.  After searching a couple of forums I replaced some or all of the wheels with wheels from a Dapol packet of spare wheels, and the problem disappeared.

 

I had bought the packet of spare Dapol wagon wheels because I had had trouble with some Hornby wagons.  (I have since been told that the most likely problem for the Hornby wheels was the back-to-backs, so will have a play with them in the autumn.)

 

In general, I haven't had much trouble with most of the Dapol or Bachmann wagons that I have.  I tend to prefer Bachmann or Dapol for ready to run wagons, although my earlier purchases included a lot of Hornby wagons.

 

The above happened with SMP plain track and Marcway points, with tightest curve on the layout 30" radius.

 

If I considered buying another 6-wheeled tank wagon of Dapol manufacture, I would factor in the cost of replacement wheels.  Alternatively, I would look to see whether Bachmann did anything suitable.

[jwealleans]

Personally I use Hornby wheels and can count on two fingers the number of faulty ones I've had in the hundreds I've used.

 

There have been multiple threads on here about Dapol wheelsets and there's been the odd Moderation handed out as well. I can only quote one example, but it may be instructive. I built a Dapol (ex-Airfix) 20T brake van as an ex-LNER Toad D. I took it along to the next show with Thurston (PECO Code 100) where it failed to complete a single circuit without derailing. Being forewarned, I replaced the Dapol wheels with Hornby ones and it has run incident free for the subsequent four or so years.

 

I believe it is the profile which is unlike any other types and therefore most likely the source of any problems.

[TRAILRAGE]

Anybody still having issues with these? I have several wagon kits that need building but with the price of Wheelsets these days and working on a strict budget i have been considering  giving these a shot to see what there like.

 

Cheers Trailrage 

[The Johnster]

I'd echo the comments about Dapol wheels from experience with their Fruit D; replacement with Bachmanns has solved all problems.  I've been making up some Parkside kits recently, though, and found that the Bachmanns I like to standardise on are a larger diameter slightly than the kit supplied wheels, which are further inferior IMHO by being plastic albeit on metal pinpoint axles.  The Bachmann axles are slightly longer and fit in the bearings better, and ensure that the wagon runs at the correct ride height.  

 

Dapols, IIRC, are the opposite to Parkside kit wheels, being metal on plastic axles.  I am a bit miffed with Dapol products at the moment, as they persist in making wagons with moulded handbrake levers which are of no use to me, and the NEM couplings do not 'swing' correctly; in short, they are more trouble than they're worth!  Some are, I believe, generically descended from Hornby Dublo products via Wrenn, and do not really cut the mustard in the modern market.

[John Tomlinson]

That's a bit of a downer, in the old days Parkside kits came with metal wheels, I think  Romfords, so a shame if the new owners have gone to plastic. Also makes them proportionately more expensive, if you factor in wheel replacement.

 

John.

[Graham456]

Well  alls not lost, the Peco Parkside Mink D I have just built this week has metal axel plastic centre (spokes) and a metal tyre, just like the old keen maygib wheels of old, not a full plastic wheel on a metal axel as in old Airfix wagon wheels,so the bit that al matters is metal

[Poor Old Bruce]

On 08/06/2019 at 16:30, The Johnster said:

Dapols, IIRC, are the opposite to Parkside kit wheels, being metal on plastic axles. 

 

Some wheels I bought recently from Dapol are metal wheels on metal axles with plastic insulators on the axle.

[Guest Jack Benson]

23 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

That's a bit of a downer, in the old days Parkside kits came with metal wheels, I think  Romfords, so a shame if the new owners have gone to plastic. Also makes them proportionately more expensive, if you factor in wheel replacement.

 

John.

 Hi,

 

AFAIK Peco's acquisition of the PD range included the introduction of wheels from Colin Seymour aka Alan Gibson.

 

But I could have been misled.

 

Cheers

 

Jack

[JeremyC]

Parkside Dundas 4mm kits sometimes included Gibson wheels before the sale to Peco, possibly due to the availability or cost of Markits wheels at any given time.

Gibson wheels are not all plastic, they have metal tyres and axles, but do use a plastic centre.

Edited June 10, 2019 by JeremyC

[The Johnster]

I have a total of 10 Parksides including chassis kits, all purchased within the last few months and all supplied with Maygib wheels: the postman brought two more minerals this morning.  My objection to them and the reason I replace them with Bachmanns is not to do with their plastic centres, though I prefer turned metal wheels in general, it is that the Baccy's are a slightly larger diameter and enable the vehicle to ride at the correct height (or at any rate the same height as the rest of my stock measured by visually matching the buffers, which I assume to be correct), and the axles are a little longer and fit better in the kit axleboxes.  One can use the position of the bearings to improve this fit, which seems to be a weak point of the kits in general; the wheelsets don't fit in securely, and the position of the sideframes cannot be brought in towards the centre line any more than the relief on the underside of the wagon floor, necessary for a strong join and to ensure squareness, allows it.

 

You need to be diligent in glueing the solebar/sideframe piece as tight as possible to this relief, though.  I now routinely make these kits up with the bearings not fully pressed home into the axlebox holes to accept the wheelsets reasonably securely with the sideframes vertically square to the bottom of the wagon, but an amount of sideplay is still apparent.  In a perfect world there would be none, but in a perfect world I'd be 6 stone lighter, a foot taller, and a millionaire...

 

I can't think of a use for the Maygib wheels and they are offered the chance of an exciting new career in Landfill.  The kits, even when one factors in the cost of better buffers and Bachmann wheels, are still good value for money; they can be supplied with EM gauge wheels on request apparently.  You end up with a wagon of equal quality to the very high standard of current RTR, and have a greater choice of prototypes for about half the cost of RTR.  AFAIK Parkside are the only people who are in the game of providing correct GW open 5 plank wagons, a fairly basic requirement for steam age layouts.  Their only real rivals are Ratio, and I prefer Parksides because Ratio inevitably include something very fiddly that is too flimsy to last long on the completed model.  Parksides are easy and should be capable of successful completion by anyone who managed an Airfix Spitfire when they were a kid.  

[polybear]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

I can't think of a use for the Maygib wheels and they are offered the chance of an exciting new career in Landfill.  

 

Dear Best Buddy,

Feel free to chuck 'em in my direction, then we can both sleep easy at night knowing we've done our bit for the environment...

[Steamport Southport]

I think there is a bit of misinformation going on here.

 

Parkside kits used to have Romford wheels, but now have the vastly superior Alan Gibson wheels supplied. If anyone can point me to better wheels then I would like to know about them*. Markits are good, but too expensive. Their driving wheels are also mostly generic.

 

I don't think they've had plastic wheels since the early 1980s...

 

 

*Discounting Ultrascales which you are buying for your unborn great grandchildren to use.

 

 

 

Jason

[sharris]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

Parkside kits used to have Romford wheels, but now have the vastly superior Alan Gibson wheels supplied.

 

 

I noticed the improvement in quality last time I bought some - that's what the nice lady on the H&A stand told me as she kindly swapped them for EM gauge wheels.

 

[MartinWales]

2 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Dear Best Buddy,

Feel free to chuck 'em in my direction, then we can both sleep easy at night knowing we've done our bit for the environment...

Same here,if you're sharing..................

[RobMG]

Well I have successfully solved the problem on several of my Dapol 6 wheel tanks by making sure there is enough vertical play on the centre  (Dapol) wheels and of course the back to backs are correct. They all now run through large radius code 75 points with NO problems.  

So likewise if anybody is chucking out Dapol wheels because they think they don't work, chuck'em my way. because with a little adjustment here and there, they do work...

 

Rob